Trance-like Intense Neck Scratching & Gashing

Stray Cathouse Madame

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Hi all, just signed up here to see if anybody has experienced anything similar with their kitties.

Ginger showed up in our backyard several years ago, already a full-sized adult cat, and would eat our outdoor cats' leftover food after they had finished eating. She seemed to be tame with a sweet disposition, and allowed us to pet her, just not on the head (she'd duck to avoid it). Our one concern was a gash on her neck which we figured was the result of a fight. The gash eventually healed and we eventually let her venture indoors (our cats are all in/out at their leisure).

Months later, we hear a very loud THWAP-THWAP-THWAP-THWAP when she's inside and it turns out to be Ginger scratching her neck harder than I've ever seen a cat scratch herself in my life. Eyes practically rolling to the back of her head, fur flying everywhere and voila, another gash on her neck. She stopped before we could get to her. As this continued happening and whenever we could get to her fast enough, we would hold her scratching paw to shield her neck and avoid her gashing herself further, but holding the paw does not stop the movement. Many times she will cry out when we're holding her like this. We have seen her get into one of these scratching fits, roll off the bed and fall to the floor, all without stopping the scratching motion. The scratching will happen for several seconds (like 15 to 20 seconds maybe) before she'll stop. We described it to our vet to whom we showed one of the gashes but he said he'd never seen or heard of such a thing.

Another unusual thing about Ginger is that the two middle claws on both her back paws are crazy long and thick. We call them her Excaliburs. I know cats normally tug on their claws with their teeth while grooming, but Ginger does it like she's trying to rip these claws right out of her paws.

Ginger is your typical lazy cat, loves being around people, and is so unbelievably civilized and domesticated that it's hard to believe she was once a stray. We always get our "new" cats fixed as soon as we are able to befriend them. There are toms in our neighborhood but when we saw that she never got pregnant during those first several months that she shyly lived in our backyard, we figured she'd already been spayed. Now, years later, we're sure she was spayed or is otherwise sterile. Over the past few months, she has transformed into a mostly indoor cat. She'll venture outside maybe once every two weeks or so and usually only for a few minutes at a time. I don't think this is significant, since she's had these fits since she first adopted us, but thought I'd mention it anyway.

This scratching and the resulting gashing happens in phases. She will completely heal and seem like a totally normal cat (aside from those claws!) for months on end and then suddenly out of nowhere she will scratch herself another gash. The more times she scratches, the bigger the gash gets. It looks awful, raw and bloody when this happens. We normally treat it with antibiotic ointment which seems to help a lot, and when it's severe we will put an E-collar on her which also seems to keep her from this trance-like self-mutilation. In the last couple of weeks, she started again but this time the gash got bigger than ever, faster than ever. Ointment and E-collar treatment already in progress, but we'd really like to know what this is and if it is possible to stop it or at least curb it.

We've been scouring the interwebz trying to figure this out. It almost seems like hyperesthesia, but her skin doesn't ripple and her thing is scratching, not licking. We sometimes think it's some sort of seizure from the way she gets trance-like and can't seem to stop scratching. Even though we are against declawing, we've considered having her Excaliburs surgically removed in order to diminish the damage she causes herself when she goes through these phases.

If anybody out there has experienced anything even remotely similar, I would love to hear about it. Any insight will be deeply appreciated!
 

Mamanyt1953

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You are so right that it almost seems like hyperesthesia, which is, of course, what I thought first. And, although the skin isn't rippling, it still could be, judging from this article, which seems excellent, and the source is impeccable. Hyperesthesia Syndrome

I would advise against removing those claws. You already know about declawing, and you may be swapping one issue for a whole host of other issues. I don't know that removing just those two would do as much damage as full declawing, but why take a chance with a cat who is having issues already? Perhaps good quality silicone claw caps might work? They are not terribly expensive, and you can put them on at home. There are several Youtube videos on how to do it.

I hate that it took an issue like this to bring you to us, but you and Ginger are so very, very welcome here at TCS. When you have a moment, click on this link New Cats on the Block and introduce yourselves to the community, if you haven't already (that's my last stop when I'm posting).
 
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Stray Cathouse Madame

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Thank you for the warm welcome and thanks so much for the link, as well. It has me once again thinking this might be hyperesthesia. At least one time that I clearly remember, it happened when I pet her in a particular spot near the pelvis, but most of the time it is just spontaneous. A lot of times right after an episode, she looks around all confused like she's trying to figure out who snuck up on her to beat her up. During an episode, she'll be in the classic scratching position, but at the same time seems to be unnaturally contorted, like over-twisted. When I do get to her in time to hold her paw in my hand to shield her from herself (I allow the leg to move because I don't want her to hurt herself from struggling against me), her body seems unusually stiff. That, plus the way her eyes roll back would support what the Cornell vet believes about hyperesthesia being a from of seizure, if that is in fact her condition. I also haven't been able to link the episodes to any stressors, environmental or otherwise.

On the partial declawing, believe me, I hate the idea of removing any claws at all, ever, on any cat, and I'm somewhat appalled that I've even considered it for Ginger. It's just one of those things that comes to mind when you're so desperate for a solution, like a lesser-of-two-evils situation. It can get pretty awful. Sometimes I think she's trying to gradually decapitate herself. I will definitely look into those claw caps, thanks for the suggestion! Hopefully I'll find ones big enough to actually sheathe those Excaliburs!

Heading over to New Cats on the Block now, thanks again!
 

pharber-murphy

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I hope the claw caps work! This sounds particularly painful for Ginger and stressful for you! Good luck and keep us posted on Ginger's prognosis/diagnosis.
 
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Stray Cathouse Madame

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I'm happy to report that after a couple of days of getting gooped with Neosporin and a week of donning the Cone of Shame, Ginger is well on the way to recovery. She scabbed so well that we only gooped her twice, and by morning on the fourth day, the scabs stared falling off revealing healthy new skin. I figure maybe another week of the E-collar for the scabs to finish falling before we can try removing it and look into those claw caps.

We did catch her getting into one of her scratching fits a couple of nights ago, and I observed that when it happens, besides the unnatural contortion that I mentioned previously, she super-extends one of her front paws, outstretched claws and all. Luckily, the base of the cone gets in the way of her Excaliburs, so there has been no further damage.

I still can't help but wonder if there's anything else I can do to prevent these scratching fits. Like, what if it isn't hyperesthesia and she just gets intolerably dry skin? Is there a supplement we could give her to help condition her skin? I'm open to all ideas and suggestions.
 

Mamanyt1953

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HAH! OLIVE OIL! I found this: Olive Oil Uses for Cats | Cuteness. Now, it does say to talk with your vet about the amount to give. It will keep her skin soft, help prevent hair balls, and a couple of other things. Be advised...you DO want to talk with the vet about the dosage, because that's also what we recommend for kittens with constipation, so there's the issue of "too much of a good thing!"

On the other hand, if this is anxiety based, and mild, you might have good luck with chamomile tea. Brew a cup, chill it and administer via syringe, 1-3 tsp per dose, 1-3 times a day. You can also use it on her (and you) as a wash for irritated skin. It is very rare for any cat or human to have an allergic reaction to chamomile, but if it is a concern, try it on the skin first. If there is no reaction, it is almost certainly safe internally. It is certainly less intense (and less expensive) than prescription medication, and worth a shot!
 
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Stray Cathouse Madame

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*SIGH*

I'm back.

Sooooo..... We are reaching our wits' end with Ginger, or as we've started calling her, Coney Maloney. We've tried the claw caps - still have not completely given up on them, but inching closer to it by the day.

The first time, we waited until her neck was pretty much healed with just a few superficial scabs to go when we capped only those 2 superclaws on each rear paw. Once capped, we unconed her so she could finally clean herself (can you say stinky kitty?). I think those lasted about 36 hours, tops. We put them on one night and by the second morning, two caps were already off and her neck was torn up again.

Back to the cone and goop for another week, give or take. And a lot of websearches and brainstorming.

We found the ThunderShirt which seemed like it would mostly cover the part of her neck that she digs a hole into and we figured that if this is stress-triggered, it wouldn't hurt. We promptly bought one to put on her as soon as she was healed. Again. (SPOILER ALERT: we still haven't had a chance to use it.)

This time, we decided to cap ALL of her rear claws and hold her down for about 10 minutes to let the glue really dry. So on go the caps, and off goes the cone. Long-awaited grooming session. Apparently happy cat. We all go to sleep, my SO and I with hope in our hearts.

We wake up in the morning to a few little plastic caps at the foot of the bed and a cat with a bloody neck. Back on goes the cone.

Remember how I said that she looks like she's going to rip her rear claws right out of her paws when she grooms them? She's had practice. I don't think it's much of a challenge for her to take off these caps.

Fast forward another week or so, getting so close to being able to re-cap and re-un-cone. It was either the day after xmas or the following day, I forget. We can't find Ginger anywhere. Suddenly we hear a child approaching saying "umm" in a strange tone. We look at the kid, and she's pointing at a coneless cat. A cat with her neck gashed open. Again. Lesson learned. Double up on protection. Cone + caps, caps + coat (pending supervised trial run, but this one's our goal; she can't be Coney Maloney forever!) or coat + cone, with a couple of supervised grooming sessions per day, protected by caps only. Still working up to being able to use the coat.

So, until then, I had only been fastening the outer clips on the cone and leaving the ones close to her neck open. Well, we have one room in the house that we use for storage, pantry, etc., and it's pretty cluttered. It's always open because that's where we keep the litter box, too. She apparently got her coned self stuck between a box and a shelf in there (where we found the catless cone), and in her struggling to free herself, the unfastened neck end of the cone opened up enough to let her head slip out of it. Lesson learned. Fasten cone completely.

And so again, we're back to coning and gooping. This is getting old--for all of us. Several nights later, we feel bad that she's so desperate to groom herself, going from licking the crap out of my SO's leg, his hand, and eventually the cone itself. We had not yet not re-capped the 3 bare claws, but we took a chance. Boy, was that stupid. We take off the cone and she starts grooming. Apparently happy cat. She eventually goes to the food bowl, because that's what she does. Then comes to sit in our bedroom doorway for an after-meal grooming session. Both of us were doing other things, waiting for her to finish grooming so we could recone her when suddenly she starts up a self-mutilation attack. By the time we get to her, there are a few new gashes on the scabby bald spot on her neck. At least it was only a few this time, and just cuts rather than a hole. If only we had coned her right after the first grooming session. If only. Hindsight is 20/20.

Cone. Goop. Again. Still. In any case, getting really old.

The caps only come with 3 tubes of single-use glue. We have 1 tube left but seemingly many cappings to go, so the other day I picked up some regular nail glue. Last night we decided to give it a go and we used the new glue to re-cap these 3 bare claws, thinking, hoping that perhaps it might hold stronger. Maybe it was out of that hope that we didn't hold her down as long this time. Maybe it was that this time she squirmed a lot more than last time. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered. We put on the caps, unconed her and let her groom. Eat. Groom. Gone. Hiding in a cardboard box. Hmm. Not much she can do in that box, right? Wrong. Yup, there's enough room in there for her to reach her rear claws with her teeth. My SO passes the box on the way to the kitchen and calls out that she's taken them off. We found two caps on the floor in front of the box. It's only been about 10 minutes since we took off the cone. I promptly grabbed the cone that I hadn't even had a chance to wash yet, dumped Ginger out of the box and re-coned her. Lesson learned. Don't trust her out of your sight with only a single layer of protection on. Under any circumstances.

I don't even know yet which claws she tore the caps off of. I was too frustrated and too tired to even deal with her last night. I still hadn't bothered to look this morning and came here to vent, instead.

And this is where I was going to wrap up the post, but just moments ago my SO tells me that he and the kid examined the rear paws and saw only one cap missing and it's from one of the regular, less dangerous side claws on the right paw. The ones we re-capped last night were on the left. I guess the box was her spot for yanking them off without getting caught and what we found last night was her cap collection.

In light of these most recent discoveries, my SO decided to take off the cone AND remove the box. Now the only really cozy place for her is on the bed next to his gaming desk, where he can keep a close eye on her. Right now she is curled up there, sleeping.

I guess you could say that we're learning by trial and error how to handle this, but it is undeniably wearing on us.

TL;DR - Tried claw caps, easier said than done. Haven't given up. Yet.
 

Mamanyt1953

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Man, you are going through it. And she goes for the same spot, every time, right? Try brewing a cup of commercially prepared chamomile tea, chilling it, and swabbing the neck good with that. I say "commercially prepared" because the tea bags from the store are always German chamomile, which is medicinal and safe for cats. What grows in gardens is often English chamomile, is useless medicinally and toxic to cats. The chamomile has a few good properties. It is anitbacteral, antifungal, and VERY soothing on itchies and ouchies of all sorts, for both cats and humans (and dogs and horses, to my own personal knowledge). If this is behavioral, you can also give her between 1-3 teaspoonsful up to 3 times a day, via syringe. And drink a cup hot, with honey, yourself. It's calming for all of you!
 
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Stray Cathouse Madame

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Hah! Add some brandy and a squeeze of lemon and have myself a hot toddy!

It's always the same spot, but I don't think it's an itch. I won't rule it out of course, but to me it seems neurological. I'll try the lukewarm chamomile compress anyway. It certainly can't hurt! It will have to wait until the gooping is done, but I think I'll use chamomile to help clean the goop out of her fur, two birds, one stone and all. Thanks for the tip, Mamanyt!
 

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With the caps i recommend a different glue. If you're near a Sally beauty supply grab a tube of asp instant nail glue. It dries fast. You're cutting them before applying correct? I put a push pin in the top of the glue to use again. Not all glue is created equal. Ibd 5 second glue just isn't great anymore. On eBay there's Mias secret strong jet. If you can't wait get kiss maximum speed at Walgreens. If you have any issues removing them (yes I know you've mentioned kitty removed them fast) buy pure acetone. Put it on a cotton round and wiggle as you hold it around the nail cap. Maybe it'll help.
 
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Stray Cathouse Madame

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Thanks Valentine. The nail glue that I picked up at CVS was Kiss in the bottle with the skinny nozzle. Precision, I think? If it doesn't work for us, I'll try getting my hands on asp and/or Mia's. And yes, we trim both claws and caps before applying. Appreciate the tips!
 
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Stray Cathouse Madame

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Thanks Valentine. The nail glue that I picked up at CVS was Kiss in the bottle with the skinny nozzle. Precision, I think? If it doesn't work for us, I'll try getting my hands on asp and/or Mia's. And yes, we trim both claws and caps before applying. Appreciate the tips!
 

Mamanyt1953

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Keep us posted! And enjoy that hot toddy! A calmer you means a calmer cat, after all (like you needed the excuse).
 
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