Three year old now a grazer! Also MEGA picky! Start over? New proteins?

[pinkman]

After dealing with this for a month or so I finally am caving in and making a thread about this. 

Lox is a three year old female, her last weigh-in was at 7 pounds. I've had her for a year and a half, and for the past eight months I have been feeding her the following:

• Chicken ground w/ Alnutrin
• Turkey ground w/ Alnutrin
• Rabbit ground w/ Alnutrin
• Pheasant ground w/ Alnutrin
• Duck ground w/ Alnutrin
• Quail ground w/ Alnutrin
• Stella & Chewy's Duck Duck Goose Freeze-dried cat food

I also supplement them with an egg yolk a week, some chunky snacks such as chicken breast/thigh/heart/gizzard/neck along with duck wingtips and gizzards. She would eat anywhere from 2.75 to 3 ounces daily. She also used to eat mutton ground but decided she was not too fond of it (the duck ground, also). Supplements I use also include salmon/krill oil, Natural Factors probiotic, L-Lysine, and bovine Lactoferrin. The L-Lysine and Lactoferrin I started to give more recently in the past couple months because of Bagel's flareups. 

Lox is now a grazer. She used to be real food crazy when I got her a year and a half ago, but now not only she takes forever to finish one meal, she is getting EXTREMELY picky. Can you tell I'm a bit frustrated? I've tried various things such as toppers (bonito flakes, freeze dried chicken, freeze dried green tripe, to name a few) and even have tried adding canned food again (Nutro Natural Choice chunky pates, Tiki Cat Chicken, Trader Joe's Turkey and Giblets, Trader Joe's Tuna for Cats, Wellness Turkey come to my head) but she is still not as gutso of an eater anymore. She WILL finish her meals eventually, she hasn't lost weight, she just takes forever. And picky. Oh, I also fed her CoTW infused chicken a couple times - she was slow at eating that also (plus CoTW has high Iodine now, so I am not sure how often I will use that).

I'm sorta at a loss what to do. I used to feed three meals a day, but because of a pet sitter I have coming during the holidays now I have set up 2.5 meals - two meals and a snack at night. This worked for a while, but she's becoming slow at eating again. The canned food trick worked for a while, but it's starting to wear off its magic. I also tried a fresh restart where I "fasted" for a day - like in Dr. Pierson's advice. I also got a Feliway plugin a couple weeks ago - it helped a lot once I got it but I am not sure how effective it is at the moment. 

I highly doubt this is medical, as this behavior pretty much started once Bagel (six month old male) has entered the bratty stage of trying to be real macho n' stuff. I always fed Lox first, high above, where she can still see Bagel but Bagel can not reach her. The reason for this is because I wanted both cats to know that their presence = food/goodstuffs when I was introducing them back in August. Now Lox will not touch her food even if she is fed first - should I give the two more distance when feeding? Any tips will be awesome. 

How can I get her to be more of a gutso eater again? I want her to enjoy her meals. I also do worry about when Bagel becomes older, he will try to steal her food. Is being a grazer on raw a bad thing? I actually miss her being all food-motivated back when we first got her. At the same time I want to make sure the two cattes can co-exist, knowing that each of their presence = goodstuffs. 

May the veteran raw feeders bring me hope and chime in! /bows

 

[ritz]

What strikes me in reading your post is maybe Lox really doesn't like one or more of the supplements, such as Krill oil. As an experiement, can you try feeding just the raw food, without any supplements (including Alnutrin), and see what happens.
Does she eat the chucks with more gusto/interest?
I personally wouldn't be concerned about grazing on raw, as long as your other cat doesn't eat Lox's portion, her weight is stable and the raw doesn't sit out too long. (I have the opposite problem with Ritz. She lives to eat.)
Also as an experiment, have you tried putting down her portion, leaving it for 20 to 30 minutes, and removing it until her next scheduled feeding?

 

[pinkman]

Oh awesome! A quick reply! Thank you Ritz.

Chunks - she used to, I would say she's more gutso about them than ground, but pretty indifferent. 

Just for clarification - are you telling me to feed the ground without Alnutrin also? Sorry, was a bit confused. This morning I left her food out (quail, supplements/alnutrin, TJ canned food mixed, freeze dried chicken topped) for 25 minutes, she ate half of it - but I took it away. For now, her being a grazer doesn't really cause issues (she will have leftovers, even after a ton of coaxing with different toppers) but I am sure it will be an issue once Bagel can jump higher. He is a meat vacuum that eats over six ounces of ground a day, being a kitten and all. 

Perhaps I need to separate them completely when feeding, although I really do not want to do that as I believe the whole "presence of each other = good things happen" is key when you are introducing the two cats. Though, if Lox is not enjoying her meals is it really considered a good thing for her? I'd say I'm still in the introduction phases, definitely the latter stages, but it's still a process.

I should also add - Lox had krill oil/salmon oil, along with the probiotics before the switch to raw. It never really bothered her. I'm thinking it might be the L-Lysine but she didn't have an issue with that also I introduced it to her (it is the NOW Foods pure powder, she hates most if not all the L-Lysine treats). Perhaps the lactoferrin? Blah.

 

[ritz]

I mentioned the Alnutrin since it seems to be in every food you give her.
Is there a reason you're giving Lox L-lysine (sorry, forget the history of Lox).
Is the lactoferrin in addition to the probiotics?
If you started Lox out with a few supplements and then have added more, maybe at this point she's only tasting the supplements and not the food.
And of course cats being cats, their taste changes, sometimes.
I'm just throwing out some possibilities and seeing which one "tastes the best"

 

[ldg]

I agree - try the food without the supplements (though I doubt it's the Alnutrin, you never know). I'm sorry, I'm in a rush and didn't pay close enough attention - is the krill added at the time of the meal? I'd definitely give it a skip.

FYI, Lazlo, Tuxie and Spooky sometimes get finicky. I know that because you add the Alnutrin to the meat and then package it, it would require re-managing that for a bit, but I found that giving my cats completely unsupplemented food twice a week perks up their interest again. I do add the supplements mainly to breakfast, and then the late night meal is kept to a minimum - though eggshell is added to all meals, normally. But when I give them those two meals of plain meat, I don't put eggshell on there either, just plain meat.

And what about mixing up chunks vs ground? Or Ground with some chunks in it? :dk:

FYI, Flowerbelle used to be a food nut. Then she seemed to develop what I call "ADD" when it came to eating. I just lucked into a solution - letting her eat on the counter first, while I finished fixing everyone else's meals. Now she eats from start to finish, and, knock wood, it's still working. Oh - and freeze dried chicken liver is, for Flowerbelle, always a reliable topper (again, knock wood!). :lol3:

It sounds to me like Lox is just becoming less... food motivated. It'll just take experimenting to find a solution.

Oh - as to the Feliway? When it helped here (for years), it only did so when I used it two weeks on, two weeks off.

 

[ldg]

...and maybe she doesn't like the lysine. When I switched to raw, my cats hated it. It's VERY salty (if you're using plain powder).

 

[pinkman]

I will try just plain ground mixed with canned and see what happens tomorrow.

I know the Lysine was super salty (I also tasted it myself) but the NOW Foods Lysine powder was actually the only one Lox would eat. She is taking 250 x 2 at the moment because Bagel is having a flare up. She has ate food with Lysine and Lactoferrin before, was not much of an issue but I will back track from the beginning. My morning supplements include: Salmon or Krill oil (I alternate), Probiotics, Lysine dose 1, and Lactoferrin. PM supplements are: Probiotics, Lysine dose 2, and Lactoferrin.

Ground with chunks - I have also tried this, No luck. She also used to love unsupplemented chicken thighs but she's becoming a bit more hesitant of that too.

I forgot to mention that the main thing that concerns me (after talking to my partner) is that Lox seems VERY hesitant of starting her meal, and finishing it. She will look over at Bagel... seems like she is waiting for something? Then start to eat, a few licks, and stops.

 

[tiliqua]

I forgot to mention that the main thing that concerns me (after talking to my partner) is that Lox seems VERY hesitant of starting her meal, and finishing it. She will look over at Bagel... seems like she is waiting for something? Then start to eat, a few licks, and stops.

Have you tried feeding them separately?  Is there maybe a bathroom you could put one of them in to eat?  If the issues started around the time you got Bagel she might just be nervous around him.  I'd try feeding separately and like someone else suggested, a bit of tough love.  She gets her food for 20 mins and then has to wait until the next meal time to be fed again.  Good luck with her!

 

[pinkman]

Hello all!

Unfortunately our bathroom is TINY so I can not feed Bagel in there... But here's an update:

I gave Lox what was her leftover breakfast as it is - ground quail, with supplements, added cat food. I made sure to put it in a new, clean bowl (she dislikes cold dishes), placed Bagel in the bathroom, and gave her 20 minutes. She ate a little, not a whole lot. Afterwards, I let out Bagel, gave his dinner.

It's close to 9PM currently, around midnight-1 AM I usually give them a small snack. Bagel will get his snack, Lox will have one more chance to eat her breakfast. If she doesn't, too bad for her. Not sure if I should have Bagel around for this snack feeding or repeat what I did earlier where I kept Bagel in the bathroom. I usually use this snack feeding time as a time to get them to bond with each other by associating me hand feeding both at once = good. 

Tomorrow morning, I will keep Bagel in the bathroom as I feed Lox plain ground with NO supplements, mixed with canned food. 

Hope this is a good plan. Any input will be appreciated. 

 

[pinkman]

The situation is now this:

Lox will eat canned food (Fancy Feast, Tiki Cat) in the bedroom with the door closed. This is good news. I canceled my Holiday plans so I can be with her. I'll keep monitoring her food intake, and will spend even more time with her away from Bagel - I am starting to think this is 80% behavioral. 20% may have been constipation.

I just ordered a case of Fancy Feast - should be coming on Thursday. Will be re-introducing raw once she eats well for a week or so, I'm thinking. What I may do instead of adding organ/meat/bone grounds to her canned while introducing I will put some raw chicken thigh into the food processor and add that instead. Going back to basics. Supplements will come later...

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Wishing you luck. 

Keep us posted.

 

[pinkman]

Fancy Feast Chicken (even though it has fish in it) has been a good choice with Lox. She's been eating it in one sitting, as long she has it in a ceramic plate or appetizer dish. Weird girl. I still have them separated by a door when eating.

I am also continuing the routine of playing with Bagel and then treating both cats together, within visible range. I find that Lox is very cautious about eating the treat, she will not come close to me if Bagel is begging for food around me. I toss the treat towards her while Bagel is eating, which again Lox eats with caution. After a couple treats given this way she will finally eat from my hand. 

Hopefully this behavior dies down as Bagel becomes more calm. I remember when LOX used to steal food from Bagel - she seemed more dominant back then. Not sure about now. 

Perhaps maybe I should have this thread moved to the Behavior section?

 

[fhicat]

I canceled my Holiday plans so I can be with her.

Spoken like a true pet parent.

 

[pinkman]

Heck yeah I canceled my Holiday plans! I'm actually GLAD and HAPPY! that I did, not just because for Lox but for other reasons too.

CatDonalds, er, Fancy Feast should be here in a couple hours or so. Let the reintroduction begin!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

 
Hopefully this behavior dies down as Bagel becomes more calm. I remember when LOX used to steal food from Bagel - she seemed more dominant back then. Not sure about now. 

Perhaps maybe I should have this thread moved to the Behavior section?

If you want that done, just let me know.  I'll ask one of the Mods to do it.  I know my Callie is the dominant one in our house EXCEPT when it comes to food.  Otherwise she rules the roost and the boys know to steer clear of her, ie, if she is on the window seat and they want up there, if she glares at them, they go somewhere else.  But for some reason, when dinner OR treats are served, she gets just like your Lox and is very hesitant and sometimes even runs away.  It's so strange.  MY girl even decided to change her eating spot, and started running into the bedroom at meal times.  At first I thought she just didn't want to eat since she is a kidney cat, then I figured out (thanks to another member), that she really just wanted to eat separated from them.  She still looks up now and then, and since she is a slow eater, they still come into the room, but I just stand guard as she HATES closed doors

.  If I close the door behind her so she'll have peace and quiet to eat, she freaks out

(and then obviously doesn't eat anything).  Mealtimes at our house are certainly exciting, and VERY time consuming. 

 

[andrya]

Hmmm, this is all very interesting. l may try the suggestion of feeding them separately myself.

Mine are strange eaters, but they do "graze" on their raw food as well. l put down 2 bowls for the 3 cats - usually one bowl of raw, one bowl of canned. 

lf Tanner (alpha) decides to eat first, the other two wait until he's done before they eat. lf he stays away from the bowls, the other two slink around as if they're assessing if it'll be okay for them to eat. lt's a very rare day when the three of them eat together, but it does happen occasionally. They were letting Rhys eat first when he was a kitten, but now he plays the musical food game with the others. lf one or both of the others are already eating when Tanner decides to join them, neither of the others leave, they all eat together. Cats are strange creatures, l don't have all their "rules" figured out, but there is definitely some type of hierarchical thing going on around the meals here.

All 3 of mine eat some and then leave, and keep going back until it's gone, or l've taken the bowls away. l know we're only supposed to leave raw out for 30 minutes or so, but occasionally l'll leave it for 2 hours.

 

[pinkman]

I actually do not mind Lox eating in the bedroom, but I hate feeding my cats off the floor. I prefer them to be elevated for some reason. Bagel still eats on the floor because he still doesn't jump as high... But I've been thinking in the future to create a feeding station for Lox in the bedroom (my night stand is cluttered with my medication).

Since we actually need more organization in the bedroom I was thinking about getting one of these: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/60255588/#/30201813  I would lay it on the side, which gives enough surface space for Lox to eat with her placemat, and gives us storage too. I was also thinking about wrapping sisal on one of the sides to create a psuedo-scratcher.

If it were just Lox I'd be fine with her grazing but Bagel is such a pig, he'll just steal food. 

Oh, I did order some Jackson Galaxy's Spirit Essences - got the Safe Space for Cats. 

mrsgreenjeens - I wouldn't mind having this thread moved to Behavior, as long as you think this thread is more suited for that. I did want to talk about reintroducing raw to Lox but for now it seems like it's more of an introduction/reintroduction topic, rather than a raw feeding. What does everyone else think? If moved to the Behavior section, it may be better if the title of the thread is changed, or be merged with my Bagel and Lox introduction thread here: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/262913/bagel-and-loxs-introduction

I do hope this thread I made helps others who are having issues with introductions AND reintroducing raw or just getting your cat to eat! LOL.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back here

.  That shelving unit looks like it would be great for your purposes of feeding Lox, plus giving you some extra storage.  I'm guessing you would lay it on it's side? 

How's it all going?  Is she eating well away from Bagel still?  Just wondering if you still are thinking about having this merged with your thread in Behavior, or want it separate over here, since no one responded with their thoughts.  If she is doing well eating her Fancy Feast, then maybe it's a raw issue?  I say, let's wait and see what happens when you go to reintroduce the raw.  Then you'll know whether it's her brother or the food

 

 

[pinkman]

I say let's keep this thread here because I think it's moreso a raw (and constipation issue).

I haven't gotten the shelf yet though (and yep, would lay it on its side) because... Lox is eating! I moved her feeding area from the top of the freezer to our "dining" table. Moved Bagel also further away where she can see him if she wants to. I gave Miralax for a few days, and she's been eating raw 50% with supplements sans salmon/krill oil and Lysine along with Fancy Feast mixed in. I also want to mention that I changed to ceramic dishes/plates (before I used a variety of things, but mostly stainless steel). These plates: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10133491/#/26311410  seem to work pretty good for her. There's a curved lip that isn't super dramatic so food doesn't get stuck, yet it doesn't really spill over. Good stuff. 

20131227_211840.jpg

• pinkman
• Dec 27, 2013

You can see in this photo where they eat now - Lox on the birch table and Bagel on the floor... 

new.jpg

• pinkman
• Dec 27, 2013

Before, Lox was eating on top of the freezer (sans rug) and Bagel was eating next to the kitchen cart - which the water bowl occupies now (the blue thing is the placemat for it). I don't mind Lox eating on the table since she has a placemat so I think this arrangement will work for now. I got a bathmat to put on top the freezer so she can hang out there if she wants space away from Bagel (Bagel can not get up there yet).

I am going to try a little bit of salmon oil again tomorrow, maybe a drop or two and also slowly increase the amount of raw every week. 

Cheers!

 

[ldg]

SO glad the combination of things has worked!

She may have been a little constipated... but I also think that the new eating arrangements are a good idea. She's higher than Bagel, AND can see him. :bigthumb: