Thoughts on CBD?

katmaz77

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Hi all!

I made another (rather flustered) post about my boy Shnuggles a few days ago, and am so appreciative of the responses. In this post I want to focus on Arthritis and pain management. Shnuggles is 16 and his mobility has decreased rapidly in the last month. Currently, he only gets up to use the litter box or to eat and drink. Just a few weeks ago he was jumping up on the bed, roaming the house, and changing spots frequently. He has had quite a few health problems in the last year, most recently brain inflammation and dehydration. For this reason my vet doesn't want to prescribe pain medication because she feels he is "too slow" already and does not want to further tranquilize him. She says he is in "end stages" of life. We are currently treating him with 2.5 mg Prednisolone every day.

I want to do everything in my power to help him, and I think he has more spunk left in him than my vet observes. He is happy, purring, social, eating and drinking... he just doesn't move much lol! I have already ordered some omega3 supplements, as well as Glycoflex based on what I have read on this forum. I have also ordered high end pet CBD. I am wondering if anyone has experience treating pain with CBD. I also understand that CBD can have interactions with Prednisolone in the liver. I am wondering if anyone has any opinions on this.. and how dangerous it truly is. At this point, he is very old, and I just want him to be comfortable. His blood work is perfect btw so not too worried about any of his organ functions.



****My vet is a very good doctor, however the clinic is bad at follow ups, there is a language barrier (I am an english speaker in quebec) and they have never recommended me to even explore supplements so i'm not sure its even worth having this conversation with them. I am feeling pretty let down by them, but at this point in the game I don't know if it is worth it to switch clinics. I feel as though they have written him off as just an "old cat" but I am not giving up.***

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Furballsmom

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Hello - I can't answer about the CBD but when he's lying down do you think a heating pad on low, with a couple towels over it would help ease his bones/relax his muscles? If he finds it too warm he'll move off of it.
 

daftcat75

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I’m in a very similar position myself with my Krista. She’s 16. She has been on steroids since January and chemo since Feb. I only just found the last missing inflammation trigger puzzle piece and she’s finally enjoying a remission from her IBD/lymphoma. But she’s skinny as ever and presenting diabetes-like symptoms. In an effort to lessen them, I asked my vet if I could taper her pred dose from 5 mg daily. When I asked her if it made a difference to do 2.5 daily or 5 every other day, I got a 🤷‍♀️. So I probably need a better vet for steroids. We tried 2.5 daily. She gets less of the uncontrollable hunger and thirst, but it’s still there and she’s still not regaining weight. And she gets less arthritis relief.

From what I’ve gathered from my reading, prednisilone lasts closer to 36 hours than 24. That makes daily steroids more prone to long-term stress and side effects than alternating days. I am going to ask my vet and I suggest you do the same about moving my Krista back to 5 mg dose but every other day. The higher dose should pack more relief while the off day should make it safer to give long term.

And then only when it seems like she’s settled into alternate day steroids dosing, I might very conservatively start with CBD on the off-days to lessen the risk of drug interactions. I would tell me vet about this so she knows what I’m trying. But she would tell me that there just aren’t enough studies and guidance from the vet community for her to give informed advice or consent. “You’re on your own with CBD. Good luck!”

Yes. There are interactions with CBD and prednisilone. If your guy doesn’t need the steroids for another condition like IBD/lymphoma or allergies, I would try to taper him off of the steroids with your vet’s guidance (don’t just stop steroids) before trying CBD as a non-steroidal replacement. Because my vet is right. There isn’t enough research in pets yet to provide good guidance about mixing the two. But we do know that CBD extends the drug clearance time of many drugs including prednisilone making it last longer in the body.
 

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I went through two bottles of holistapet cbd and my aunt went through one with her old cat...It helps calm them down and I had zero side effects with my two 5 year olds...


I was giving Oliver cbd because he has hyperesthesia symptoms where he fratically scratches and his skin ripples, it helped him a lot..Allie hates it, Oliver just sits there and lets me put it in his mouth
 
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katmaz77

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From what I’ve gathered from my reading, prednisilone lasts closer to 36 hours than 24. That makes daily steroids more prone to long-term stress and side effects than alternating days. I am going to ask my vet and I suggest you do the same about moving my Krista back to 5 mg dose but every other day. The higher dose should pack more relief while the off day should make it safer to give long term.

And then only when it seems like she’s settled into alternate day steroids dosing, I might very conservatively start with CBD on the off-days to lessen the risk of drug interactions. I would tell me vet about this so she knows what I’m trying. But she would tell me that there just aren’t enough studies and guidance from the vet community for her to give informed advice or consent. “You’re on your own with CBD. Good luck!”
I am thinking about trying this as well. I am wondering if upping him to the Pred everyday could be contributing the the lethargy and just lack of movement in general. If I lower the pred dose to every other day perhaps I could experiment with cbd on the off days and see how he does. Thanks for the info on the prednisolone! I am happy to hear your Krista is in remission! I am also struggling to help Shnuggles regain weight after illness. Right now I am syringe feeding some Hills A/D everyday to supplement the kibble he is managing to eat. I have ordered a weight gain supplement I am eager to try from a brand called "under the weather". It is hard to try new things when their stomachs aren't the greatest :(
 

35 year catdad

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My 19 yr old lady Tortie is addicted to tiny fresh new hemp leaves ()higher CBD-almost no THC and from very young hemp sativa plants. (but just one or two maybe inch long ones) a day. As they plant matures they get resins and little tiny rough hairs on them so I replant it often like kitty grass. I never feed older mature leaves at all. Other two cats have never been into CBD/hemp. Humans and many mammals have built in from birth THC and CBD receptors in our brains.
CBD promotes homeostasis (balancing) (think a hormonal, lipids, cortisol lowering, brain, even digestion "tune up" with very few side effects) humans in past 100 yrs arent getting CBD from their eggs and farmed animals. They used to feed it to all sorts of animals and it winds up in eggs and meat that we eat. I use hemp protein and pea powder a lot and ditched the whey years ago.
Believe this or not its true.....it was once illegal NOT to grow hemp in I think George Washingtons day?. They now build homeless shelters out of the tough stalks.Also "hemp" crete" they spray to build homes with way better insulation lighter and no rot, termites etc! It grows real fast so is better faster than doug fir redwood etc.
BTW she has no medical issues )or ever has) and been on these leaves off and on for 17 yrs. I see her alive at 21 with her old Dad
I have catnip and hemp in this picture and she chooses hemp every darn time
 

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molly92

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My vet prescribed my 17 year old CBD oil for arthritis pain. She thought it was a better option than other pain medications because it would be gentler on her kidneys (she had kidney disease). I cannot say for sure if it helped with her pain at all. She was still very stiff, as her arthritis was pretty severe. But I'm glad she was on it, because it absolutely helped her relax more! I didn't even realize that she'd been tense until she was on it, because suddenly my other cat started behaving more nicely around her. I had thought my younger cat was just being her grumpy self when she hissed at her, but my older cat must have been giving off subtle signals that made her uncomfortable which vanished when she was on the CBD oil. I'm so relieved she felt better in the last year of her life because of it, whether it was pain relief or not. It definitely helped her somehow. The only drawback was that she hated the taste of it.

I wouldn't want to navigate medication interactions without a vet, though. I agree it sounds like it's time to focus on what makes him feel the best over anything that's for extending longevity. Don't feel too bad about switching clinics if you want to! I tried 4 vets in my area before I found one that felt pretty close to perfect.
 

daftcat75

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When I’ve got Krista settled into alternate day pred, I’ll look into off day CBD. I found a product that can tell me the CBD dose per drop, not per dropper or mL. So I plan to get a dog formula which is more concentrated so that I could dose it out to a drop or two. Because I know much more than that and I’ll have “poisoned” her food. 😾
 

35 year catdad

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its true! all laughing aside
I found this at PBS online
and quote the info

New 2018 laws make hemp legal to buy possess and use in all 50 states now. You can travel with it and buy it online. Its cheap-this is from a PBS special.

"4. In the 1600s, property owners in North America had to grow hemp."

By way of a royal decree, King James I required every property owner in Jamestown to grow 100 plants of hemp for export in 1619, according to “Hemp: American History Revisited: The Plant with a Divided History” by Robert Deitch."
Ive read this on many sites its true.
Heres a quote from my onry 3 yr old maniac calico
"put that in your pipe and smoke it" thats from her not me....
furballs Dad:)
this all must drive the police nuts as it looks and smells just like its high THC cousin. It must be less than .3% THC or its not hemp.
Note to self become a testing lab! huge demand for them nowdays.
 
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35 year catdad

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When I’ve got Krista settled into alternate day pred, I’ll look into off day CBD. I found a product that can tell me the CBD dose per drop, not per dropper or mL. So I plan to get a dog formula which is more concentrated so that I could dose it out to a drop or two. Because I know much more than that and I’ll have “poisoned” her food. 😾
I read and believe since there is no mandatory testing on CBD levels in products in the U.S. that most have very little of what they claim on the label. HUGE rip off cause its so expensive.
I've had many friends try it for human pain etc with no results. Also read it takes 500mg per dose to work and thats a few bottles of most weak products.
I'm no MD or Vet. Prednisone is great for short term but has terrible side effects long term. A friend wa on IV pred.. and they had to stop it fast with her bad side effects. Krista is adorable. I think I;m becoming a tortie and calico person!
 

molly92

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I read and believe since there is no mandatory testing on CBD levels in products in the U.S. that most have very little of what they claim on the label.
This seems to be true. I know a chemist who works for a medical marijuana testing company, and she said most cbd products they look at don't have nearly as much as they claim because the molecule degrades fairly easily.

This is the one my vet gave me if anyone's interested: HempRx
 
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katmaz77

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Thanks for the responses all. This forum has been a huge comfort over the last week. My vet has totally let me down. They know Shnuggles is in critical condition and she didnt even both to call me back before going on vacation. Yesterday he didn't eat and is wobblier and less cognitive. I am not sure how much longer he has :( I am absolutely devastated. CBD was supposed to come Friday.... I wish I could have done more to help him.
 

Furballsmom

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Do you have a vet that would come to your home? Some do, even with covid.
 
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katmaz77

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Do you have a vet that would come to your home? Some do, even with covid.
I would be starting fresh with someone new. I have found one vert in my area who does house calls. I'm wondering if I should wait to make that call until I am ready to say goodbye :( I am not sure there is anything they could do for him now
 

Furballsmom

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If this were me, I'd get on their appointment list, and the sooner the better. You don't want your baby to be in pain.
 

Furballsmom

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I'm sending every good thought I own, and loads of hugs and love to you and him!!
 
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