Switching to EVO, then maybe raw.

[rafm]

My kitties are currently eating Simply Nourish dry with some Fancy Feast/Friskies/Simply Nourish wet thrown in on occasion. I am just not happy with their response to the Simply Nourish lately. Since switching, Claire has developed Cystitis (could be unrelated but), Riley has gotten severly constipated twice (requiring medical intervention) and Fred's allergies have suddenly gotten worse. Our Dogs are on it as well and the small dog has 2 dime size patches of missing hair (could be from rough play at the dog park) and the old dog has developed a very nasty anal gland infection.

Seperately I can contribute all of that to other 'things' but when you look at them as a whole, you start to wonder. So, we are switching their food. We want to go raw but of our 4 kitties, only 2 will eat set consistently and they are older (14, 11, 7 and 4). Switching will not be easy with the 14 yo so we spent some time with a raw feeder yesterday and this is our plan of attack:

1) stop free feeding. Say a prayer for us.

2) Give wet EVO twice a day to get them used to wet and the taste of non-processed food.

3) give EVO mixed with the dry a couple of times a day until we can fully phase out the Simply Nourish.

4) Once everyone is eating the wet, we'll switch to EVO's 95% meat wet and then once they are used to that, begin replacing with raw, slowly.

We started yesterday. Riley (14) is refusing to eat the wet, which isn't unusual, he really doesn't 'do' wet. Fred (11) has no issue with the wet, which I knew he wouldn't, he eats anything. Simon ate the wet last night but wouldn't eat it this morning and Claire (4) ate the wet better this morning than she did last night.

Riley LOVES the dry. He is actually picking the EVO out and only eating it, leaving the Simply Nourish in the bowl. It's mixed from the others but we haven't given but one dry serving since we started so it is way too soon to tell.

So, our journey begins. If all I am ever able to do is switch them to the EVO, I'd still be pretty happy.

Wish us luck!

 

[feralvr]

Great plan for your gang I agree that the first thing is the scheduled meals and getting them to eat the canned food. Then adding a teeny bit of raw will be much easier. NOW Carolina did go straight from kibble to raw with her Lucky. So it can be done - but I would get them on the EVO dry and off of the Simply Nourish if you want to try it that way. The EVO is the best dry food to use in conjunction with raw, if you have to do it that way. Oooooooooo I DO wish you the best of luck.. Did you see the sticky?? The Raw Resource Thread by AC? http://www.thecatsite.com/t/240809/raw-feeding-resource-thread That would be a good place to start as well and will help you gain some tips for your raw journey

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I was free feeding dry and giving the occasion fancy feast/friskies/whatever they would eat canned, and have a 17 yo, 12 yo and  two 3 yo's.  I wanted to put them on grain free wet before converting to raw, but not a particular brand, just grain free.  So, I just started buying whatever grain frees I could find until I found something they all seemed to like, which at the time was Soulistic.  I very soon discovered that they do NOT like Pate's, and many of the grain frees are pate. 

So, I'm just saying you might not want to restrict yourself to just Evo wet, unless they all like it, but try a variety of the grain free canned foods during this process.  Actually, once I found a couple of foods they liked, we were able to switch from free kibble to scheduled canned immediately.  Here's my thread:   http://www.thecatsite.com/t/241486/ready-to-get-started

Now I have a new thread "officially started them on raw"

They still oftens balk at their canned food (but don't want kibble), so I'm playing the "which one do you want now" game.  Oh, and toppers help, even if it's just canned food, without raw in it yet! (like crushed up kibble, or powdered freeze dried chicken, Fortiflora, parmesan cheese, etc.)

 

[rafm]

Thank you Lauren and Sally. I have a bit of OCD and I have a thing about feeding both wet/dry of the same thing....it's really stupid I know. Therefore, when I switch dry, I automatically go with the wet if possible. But, I see your point on getting other grain free if they still won't eat. I'm doing another wet feeding this evening so we'll see how it goes.

Well, it's been 24 hours and none of the cats were lying in wit to pounce me when I got home tonight so I'm thinking they are OK. DH is on the phone so I haven't had a chance to see how the dry went today.

 

[feralvr]

OH yes, I agree with Sally ... try to find a few grain-free canned foods that they prefer and like. AND using "topper's" to get them going on the canned food is not unusual. There are times since starting this raw transition that my cat's even stopped eating canned foods :shocker: I couldn't believe it. I had to use "topper's" to get them to eat canned foods again :lol3: This raw transition can be very trying on our nerves at times but it helps to have this forum to come and talk it out or yell it out :lol3:. I would try to get them on the canned food. BUT do this gradually - we don't want any upset tummies or digestive problems if they are used to an all dry diet. Make the changes slowly and gradually. You might want to start them on a digestive enzyme/probiotic supplement. I use this one for both my cat's and my two older JRT dogs http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Animal-Essentials-Plant-Enzymes-Probiotics/148017.aspx I also started feeding my dogs raw too . The enzyme/probiotic is very beneficial for proper digestion of the raw food OR a new diet change. You can find the Animal Essentials at some of the natural food stores as well OR just order from Amazon. There is also Prozyme http://www.doggiefood.com/prozymedigestiveaid.html. I have used Prozyme in the past as well.

GOOD LUCK and keep us posted

 

[ldg]

Welcome to the wonderful (and sometimes frustrating!) world of raw! :lol3:

I do have to say, for us, the hardest part was the switch to timed feedings. :nod: I had three die-hard kibble addicts, so for about a year, I fed them timed meals of canned food, and the three kibble addicts would get "treats" of kibble in the bathroom. :lol3: It took a while for them to eat enough at each meal, so we started with four meals a day. And Laz still had trouble eating enough at each meal (which is why he got kibble supplemented on demand - he's our cancer kitty, so he gets spoiled).

I only moved it to three meals after we were on raw, actually. And I didn't get rid of the kibble until after they were on raw either. Lazlo still asks for food between meals and early in the morning before breakfast, and I give it to him. Only now I give him freeze dried meat-only "treats," not kibble. :nod:

I don't know if you've seen this - it's the transition tips in the raw diet transitioners social group: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/241623/raw-transition-resources-thread

But EVO is a GREAT kibble to feed during the transition. It requires such little volume to provide so much nutrition, it's a great way to ensure they're eating enough in the switch to timed meals. :nod:

As to the wet... I found that mine were very sensitive to texture. For pate style foods, I had to add water, and sometimes kind of whip it up (I actually bought a little 2 cup mixer for the kitties LOL). And really, you can treat the canned like you would raw - and use "toppers" to get them interested in the food. Fortiflora, though it is not a high quality option because of the animal digest, and down the road you may have issues with them "addicted" to the fortiflora flavor - but you may find it very helpful, as it makes most food "smell" like kibble. :nod:

And just remember - there's no rush. We saw the benefits of raw for our kitties when they were only at 50/50 raw/canned. :nod:

 

[rafm]

Thank you all for the advice, I'm going to settle in and start reading through the links everyone has provided.

So far the journey is making me very anxious, I'm concerned that two of my kitties arent eating. I think I'll journal each cat seperately so I can keep them straight.

Riley, 14 yo.
Personality: Demanding, stubborn
Medical issues: has had severe constipation twice this year requiring medical intervention. His weight fluctuates constantly.
Eating habits pre-transition: would barley lick wet food but every once in a blue moon would devour it. Sometimes will eat kibble. Mostly only wants to eat greenies. Will literally scream for hours until you give him greenies. And then 45 minutes later will start again.
Response to EVO thus far: refuses any of it. Won't eat the kibble, which he ate on day one. Sniffs the wet and walks away. Still screaming for greenies. Which, I admit,I'm week and have succumbed to his demands.
Wet attempted thus far: EVO chicken, pâté. B.G. Quail &chicken, pâté. He walks away from both.

Fred, 11 yo
Personality: Sweet, lap kitty, just the most good natured kitty I've ever had
Medical Issues: Overweight, allergies
Eating habits pre-transition: if you put it in front of him he'd eat it. Have never had a single food he wouldn't eat.
Response to EVO thus far: eats the kibble fine, devours the wet.
Wet attempted: has eaten everything provided to him.

Simon, 7 yo
Personality: high-strung, nervous, bully
Medical Issues: none
Eating habits pre-transition: would eat a combo of wet and dry without issue
Response to EVO thus far: will snack on the kibble but won't finish a bowl in one setting. Wet, has to be fresh.
Wet attempted: EVO chicken, pâté was eaten well the first day but the leftovers were barely touched. B.G., quail and chicken was plate cleaning good!

Claire, 4 yo
Personality: former feral that barely trusts us
Medical issues: recently diagnosed with cystitis and overweight
Eating habits pre-transition: would touch wet only once in a blue moon, enjoyed her kibble
Response to EVO thus far: won't touch the wet....of course she won't come into the kitchen when it is time to eat so I have to take the food to her and then she runs most of the time. I can't tell how well she's eating the kibble but I haven't seen her eating any of it. She may be doing it at night.
Wet attempted: EVO chicken, pâté -she ate a few bites of it fresh but wouldn't have anything to do with the leftovers. Ran away when I approached with the B.G.

So, I'm really worried about Claire. I want to make sure she is getting enough to eat but that is hard to do when she won't come out half the time. I'll just have to keep working on her.

Question everyone: is this food more filling and that is why they aren't eating as much and seem satisfied longer? I'm used to being woken up to kitties demanding food but that hasn't really happened even though they seem to be eating less.

 

[rafm]

So, it was a bit better after posting last night:

Riley ate some of the dry EVO that I put out before bed.
Fred didn't even go to the table when I put out the dry, guess he was actually full from the wet at 6.
Simon didn't approach the dry.
Claire jumped up and was eating the dry when I went to bed.

I know I should give them 20 minutes and then take it up but I am putting about 1/2 cup out, mixed with the EVO and with Claire's timidity and skittishness I wasn't about to approach her when she was actually eating. So, 1/2 cup between 4 kitties isn't going to kill them, I don't think.

So this morning, I got up and all the kibble was gone and I had 3 kitties running to the kitchen with me (Fred, Bogey and Claire) Riley was too busy sniffing the open window.

Riley: ate about 1/4 of his wet offering. This was B.G. Tuna
Fred: ate all the leftover B.G. Quail/chicken ( thank goodness for Fred, we never waste money with him around)
Simon: ate all but a couple bites of his. This is a cat that never walks away from food. I actually fed him on the counter with Fred and Riley and they were still eating when he was done. Usually, he will go over and bully them off their food but he didn't today. I think he was actually satisfied. :nod:
Claire: I put the bowl a foot in front of her and she actually approached it and ate. Quite a bit of it too, about 3/4 of the offering. I'm so happy. I don't think she's going to starve to death now.

The cats really seem to like this B.G. Before Grain offering. Has anyone else tried this? What are your thoughts?

 

[ldg]

Yes, I think all of us had serious anxiety!

SO glad things are looking up!

Yes, the canned foods we were feeding were B.G, EVO, and Instinct. :nod: They're the basic "mostly meat" options in canned. For whatever reason, Spooky decided to boycott B.G. :dk: Since she's being so finicky - and now Laz, Shel, and Tux are too - I've included the old crappy Wellness they loved (the grain free cans), B.F.F. (all tuna based foods, but so stinky you can "hide" just about anything in them), and the Weruva Paw Lickin Chicken.

Mine didn't like beef, but I used most of the flavors of B.G., EVO, and Instinct (they really like the duck and rabbit Instinct). Instinct has whole peas and carrots - very easy to pick out, and not a lot of them.

OH! And yes, these foods have far more nutrition in them - especially the EVO dry - than most other brands. So it takes less of them to make them to be satisfied.

That was one of the major things I noticed with the switch to raw. Even on these canned foods, my gang bothered me at least in the early hours of the morning for food. Flowerbelle would yank at my hair. :lol3: But raw satisfies them even MORE than these foods - and they just don't pester me between meals any longer.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Wonderful that things are already looking up!

NONE of my gang like BG.  None of them like BFF.  They LOVE just a couple of flavors of Weruva and a couple of flavors of Soulistic, and that's it as far as canned foods go.  However, I must say that they change their minds though, because sometimes they will try to "bury" their bowls when I put out a certain food, and then the next time I put it out, they will chow down on it.  Go figure

 

[rafm]

You guys are so knowledgable...I appreciate your encouragement!

Things are a mixed bag here:

Riley: he's simply not eating. We have to give him greenies....he won't even touch Friskies wet or the simply nourish dry either. He appears hungry but just won't touch the food other than a couple of licks. I've crushed greenies and added to the top of his food and he walked away. Honestly, I think there is something else wrong with him. This is how he acts when he gets constipated so I started his probiotic powder again today. Since he won't eat much I syringed the probiotic. If I don't see an improvement by tomorrow, I will force food for a day or two until the probiotic has a chance to work.

Fred: he's in heaven. He can't believe he's getting wet food TWICE a day. He hasn't refused anything.

Simon: he's doing really well. He runs to the kitchen for the wet and actually walks away from the bowl with food still in it. I think he is very satisfied.

Claire: she ate wellness CORE really well this morning but tonight she won't let me near her. It just got dark and she does come out more at night so hopefully I can feed her soon. She's eating better but we will have to feed her more than twice a day. She doesn't eat near enough at a setting.

Simon and Fred are ready to transition but I want to get Claire to the point they are at before we transition to raw. And with Riley, got to figure out if he needs another enema so waiting on the medicine to take effect before we deal with his issues.

This is stressful!

 

[ldg]

Yes, it IS stressful.

When we switched to timed meals, I fed them 4 times a day. None of them ate enough at any one sitting, and I'd give the four that had the toughest time some supplemental kibble (did I tell you this already? :anon: ). I think for the first week or two, I might have actually given them 2 "min-meals" as well (kind of like a "wet food" treat between meals or late at night). :nod:

Have you tried anything like.. boiled chicken for Riley? I mean in addition to or in place of the greenies? Any freeze dried meat treats? :dk: Meat is high in phosphorus with no calcium, and would help loosen him up.... just a thought.

And why not just always give him the probiotic? :dk: Our Chum had issues with diarrhea, and the holistic vet had us put him on an acidophilus supplement, the low-end human dose recommended. It's just something he started getting all the time (I split it into two doses). Before starting on raw, I wanted to ensure they all had good gut flora, so put them ALL on probiotics. I give it daily, period. I just sprinkle it on top of their morning meal (the others get half a human dose now). I realize Riley isn't eating, but when he is... just a thought.

for Riley!

 

[rafm]

I haven't tried the chicken but we have tried the freeze-dried treats, he doesn't eat them. I'll try the chicken tomorrow. I did force some food tonight though. He handled it pretty well, then we offered him some fancy feast and he licked the juice. This eating issue isn't all that new with him, he goes thru phases. I've tried to do the probiotic consistently but he won't eat it in food so I have to syringe it and doing that to him really stresses him out so it kind of defeats the purpose. I'm running fluids tomorrow too, that sometimes helps clear him out.

This is our third kitty with eating issues and it is so exhausting. But, we'll get him through it and then onto raw which, I hope, helps all his eating issues.

 

[ldg]

Does the eating problem coincide with his constipation? I mean - have you seen a pattern? When Spook got constipated, she went off her food, and it took a while to get everything back on track. :nod:

I know you're not ready to think about what raw you're going to offer first - are you going to use commercial ground to start? Discuss the options in your area with us first. :nod: Some are better options that other when you have to worry about constipation. The bone content varies - from that perspective, Nature's Variety, the most easily found, is NOT a good choice. It has too much bone, and it made a number of my kitties - those that don't usually have a constipation problem - get constipated.

Have you ever tried just slicing off a piece of raw chicken when you're making dinner and offering it to any of them? My oldest are 10, but they all gobbled it up. Just another something to try with Riley.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

So, does Riley have a history of constipation?  My Sven

had chronic constipation, and what finally worked for him was 1/4 teaspoon of Miralax mixed in about 1- 2 cc of water twice a day.  Before we got him on wet food, we syringe fed this to him, then once we got him to at least lick the gravy off of wet, I mixed this into his wet food with a little more water and some Cosequin, then later started adding probiotics and Digestive Enzymes.  Have you tried FortiFlora?  It's made with animal digest

so most cats find it yummy, but it's actually a veterinary product used when animals have digestive issues because it has some probiotics (very few) built in.  All but one of my furkids really like it, so I can use it to entice them to eat. (but it CAN become addictive)  Best price is on Amazon

 

[rafm]

Does the eating problem coincide with his constipation? I mean - have you seen a pattern? When Spook got constipated, she went off her food, and it took a while to get everything back on track. :nod:
I know you're not ready to think about what raw you're going to offer first - are you going to use commercial ground to start? Discuss the options in your area with us first. :nod: Some are better options that other when you have to worry about constipation. The bone content varies - from that perspective, Nature's Variety, the most easily found, is NOT a good choice. It has too much bone, and it made a number of my kitties - those that don't usually have a constipation problem - get constipated.
Have you ever tried just slicing off a piece of raw chicken when you're making dinner and offering it to any of them? My oldest are 10, but they all gobbled it up. Just another something to try with Riley.

Oh yes, his eating issues definitely coincide with the constipation. Although, I am noticing a slight improvement in his consumption the past day or so. And there was a very large poo in the litterbox tonight so I'm thinking we are getting him back on track.

That's good info on the raw. I never thought about the bone content. Interesting. The store we currently shop at sells Rad Raw. They can also grind your food for you if you want to go that route, which I'm pretty sure I will eventually. And to be honest, I haven't even started researching the different brands of raw. I'm getting ready to start transitioning the dogs to EVO so that is my next focus area. Once I can get everyone eating wet consistently and pinpointing our small dogs allergy, then I will focus on the raw transition.

I do have to say, only 9 days in and I am pretty happy with where we are. we have determined their favorite food is the EVO chicken/turkey combo.

Riley: Has started licking more of the wet but doesn't eat anywhere near enough.

Fred: no issues at all. I would say he's by far the furthest along in being able to consume all his calories in wet.

Simon: he's eating the wet just fine. Wants to leave and come back for his food so on occasion he loses dinner, but, I make sure to give him a bit more right before bed.

Claire: still doesn't come out for the wet, however she's not running when I approach if I extend the food bowl in front. And she is eating more and more of the wet each day.

We are still putting out 1/2 cup of mixed food each night and DH is putting out about 1/4 cup at lunch. Today though, at 9:30 pm, there is still dry in the dishes that was put there last night. DH didn't refill at noon b/c there was still too much left in the bowl. Good sign.

And, the biggest benefit yet....the overweight kitties are actually up, playing and moving around all day. Claire actually chased da bird tonight, she usually just rolls over and bats at it while laying on her back.

So far, so good

 

[ldg]

Yep. Too much calcium = constipated. :nod: So definitely something to keep an eye on (when you get there ).

Raw Raw? Is that Rad Cat raw? Or a local / store brand? :dk: Because Rad Cat happens to be one of the best commercially available foods to use during a transition. It's boneless, so the calcium content is controlled, and kitties seem to LOVE it. :nod:

And as to the progress? :bigthumb: Aw, that is just GREAT! I'm sure Riley will come around with time. :nod:

his current issue is clearing up (or has!!). And WONDERFUL they're more active - and clearly benefiting from the change!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Yep, sounds like things are progressing nicely, even with Riley

 

[klag]

I like your personality descriptions.  Fred sounds like the perfect kitty   How long have you had Claire?

Do your cats, especially Riley, drink a lot of water?  Perhaps the addition of a pet fountain might help with some of the constipation issues. 

 

[rafm]

Laurie-yes it's Rad Cat, stupid autocorrect. It's good to hear that is a good brand. It makes my life a little easier knowing what my store sells is of good quality.

Klag - funny you say that about Fred, we always say Fred is the perfect cat. He is completely normal, which is something we don't normally get. Regarding Claire, she's 4 now but we've had her since she was 7 weeks. She is definitely a challenge.

Speaking of Claire, she now expects me to hunt her down and present her with the wet food. So, now, if I can get my hands on her, I will pick her up, her screaming the entire time, and carry her to her wet food on the table. Funny though, when I sit her down in front of her bowl, she doesn't dart off, just starts eating like nothing happened. That cat is a hot mess.

As for water consumption, everyone but Claire drinks water really well. They have bowls in almost every room and between them and the dogs, I spend a few minutes every night refilling bowls. Going to wet has been really important as Claire has developed cystitis so getting more water in her through the wet has been really important.

So, I've discovered another happy benefit of this EVO. The litterboxes are in great shape! We have 3 very large boxes that we dump and clean every 2 weeks because the litter is destroyed. Holy cow, it's been almost a week and the boxes are as clean as they were when I put fresh in. Very cool!