Sweet cat with redirected aggression, please help: euthanasia may be the only option.

[catluvs]

Little update, guys: she won’t even eat the pill pocket without the liquid in it. UGH. She might be the pickiest cat of all time. I bought canned chicken and put some organic broth in it, have tried an endless amount of canned food, tried it in cheese which she likes... I have another idea, which involves cutting a jumbo temptations treat in half and putting a little piece in each, since she loves those.... I’m kind of at a loss. Transdermal may be the only option. But, I’m not above tossing little pieces of the pill in her mouth at a time. I think that’s still easier than syringing liquid. We’ll see!

 

[Furballsmom]

She wasn’t really dopey, she was alert and doing her normal activities, but completely calm. Like, I don’t even think I’ve ever seen her in such peace before. I even took a chance and let her window gaze, and she let me give her a light bath to get the vet smell off. The whole day she was an angel, and I could immediately tell after about 12 hours that it was wearing off because she was stalking around the house twitching again. The vet said that she’d let me pick some up, if I wanted to, for any difficult days.

If you can, let us know the name of this, and also find out whether the vet has anything similar to it that could be used more frequently.

 

[catluvs]

If you can, let us know the name of this, and also find out whether the vet has anything similar to it that could be used more frequently.

It starts with a T, tarbo maybe? I forgot to ask when I talked to the vet earlier, but I’ll ask next call.

I really feel like she’s given up on her she wrote another prescription for the pill version, so I’m praying that I’ll be able to cut/hide it and hope that she has no problems getting it down. When I met with the vet, she sounded hopeful, like she could help me find somewhere/someone to help her if it came down to it, now she told me that she doesn’t even think she’d be accepted as a barn cat. That there are other cats without behavioral problems that need homes. Which I understand, I do. I just feel like she’s putting a lot of emphasis on euthanizing her if this doesn’t work out. I may call a second vet and see if I can talk to them on the phone, and hear what they have to say. I’m really broken hearted.

 

[tarasgirl06]

It starts with a T, tarbo maybe? I forgot to ask when I talked to the vet earlier, but I’ll ask next call.

I really feel like she’s given up on her she wrote another prescription for the pill version, so I’m praying that I’ll be able to cut/hide it and hope that she has no problems getting it down. When I met with the vet, she sounded hopeful, like she could help me find somewhere/someone to help her if it came down to it, now she told me that she doesn’t even think she’d be accepted as a barn cat. That there are other cats without behavioral problems that need homes. Which I understand, I do. I just feel like she’s putting a lot of emphasis on euthanizing her if this doesn’t work out. I may call a second vet and see if I can talk to them on the phone, and hear what they have to say. I’m really broken hearted.

DON'T fall prey to that vet's gloom-and-doom scenario. I think we all know of accounts given by people who have been given terminal diagnoses but live and and even thrive far beyone what their "health care professional(s)" tell them. NO ONE knows how long ANYONE has to be on this earth except our Creator. If at all possible, I would strongly suggest changing vets or at least getting a second opinion. And then, no matter what, I would never consider "euthanizing" a healthy cat.

 

[Willowy]

It starts with a T, tarbo maybe?

Tramadol? Hmm, besides sedation, that's used as a painkiller for chronic arthritis, so her dramatic improvement on it means her issues might be caused by chronic pain. . .

 

[catluvs]

Tramadol? Hmm, besides sedation, that's used as a painkiller for chronic arthritis, so her dramatic improvement on it means her issues might be caused by chronic pain. . .

If that’s what it was, maybe she was attempting to sedate her a bit, I just don’t think it really had that effect. Not how you’d think, anyway, since she was still alert all day. But I really don’t think it has anything to do physically with her. If there’s a noise on the porch, even the slightest faintest noise, she’ll run to it/start sniffing dramatically and try to claw up the carpet to attempt to get out there to see if it’s an animal, I’ve had to pull chunks of carpet out of her nails. If she’s looking out the window and sees a cat, she’ll jump down and stalk through the house until she can attack my boy cat. If she smells another cat...game over. Or, if there’s heightened emotion in the room for whatever reason, she senses that as a fight situation. If I work really carefully to avoid anything she could find triggering, she’s fine. But that’s so many things, it’s walking on the most delicate eggshells 24/7. My hope is that maybe I can take her to another vet if I can’t get her to take these pills, and maybe be able to have a blood test/x rays done just in case. I just want to do everything in my power to fix this

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Don't give up on the advice of one vet. NO reputable vet would object to you seeking a second opinion. If your vet does object, that's a sure sign that you need a new vet. And I'd suggest finding one on your own, rather than asking for a referral...simply because you don't want to run the risk of the new vet being privy to any of the current vet's biases. Not saying that would happen, but it could.

And I agree with W Willowy . If the medication is Tramadol, you may well be dealing with chronic pain. This is well worth pursuing.

 

[tarasgirl06]

Don't give up on the advice of one vet. NO reputable vet would object to you seeking a second opinion. If your vet does object, that's a sure sign that you need a new vet. And I'd suggest finding one on your own, rather than asking for a referral...simply because you don't want to run the risk of the new vet being privy to any of the current vet's biases. Not saying that would happen, but it could.

And I agree with W Willowy . If the medication is Tramadol, you may well be dealing with chronic pain. This is well worth pursuing.

OMC do they give that to cats? I once took one tablet of this for pain and I was stoned for like 3 days straight. Never again!

 

[furmonster mom]

OMC do they give that to cats? I once took one tablet of this for pain and I was stoned for like 3 days straight. Never again!

I believe Tramadol is usually used for dogs, and Torbutrol is used for cats (or visa versa?). I know my vet has prescribed both of them for pain at some point for a couple of my monsters.

Either way, if the shot was one of those, and it was effective, I agree that she is in pain from something.

I also don't like the fatalistic tone that this vet seems to be taking. I would encourage looking into a feline only vet, even if it's a bit of a drive to get to.

 

[catluvs]

I believe Tramadol is usually used for dogs, and Torbutrol is used for cats (or visa versa?). I know my vet has prescribed both of them for pain at some point for a couple of my monsters.

Either way, if the shot was one of those, and it was effective, I agree that she is in pain from something.

I also don't like the fatalistic tone that this vet seems to be taking. I would encourage looking into a feline only vet, even if it's a bit of a drive to get to.

Actually yeah, I think that’s it. I think she called it “torb”. The more I think about it, the more I really don’t like how easily dismissed my cat seems to be. At first, it seemed like she was very empathetic and wanted the best for her, but now that she said she talked to the other vet in the practice it seems as though my cat is dismissed as a lost cause who, if is unable to take the Prozac, needs to be put down. She didn’t even try to suggest the transdermal version. I think either way, whether I’m able to hide the pill or not, I’m going to call another vet I found. Hopefully I’m able to get a ten minute window to get a second opinion.

I really, truly don’t think it has anything to do with pain, though. I’m not ruling it out, I’d love if it was something more simple that could be more easily fixed/could improve her behavior. But she’s always been this way (I bottle fed them, that’s how long she’s been with me) and it revolves mostly around territory. I just think it’s cognitive. I mean, she always stalks to the door when I come in, ears back, and smells around me/my shoes/the door like a dog. Only after she finds nothing will she seem to relax. Until, you know, she hears something else outside. I can’t help but feel like it’s something I’ve done, how maybe I made her so nervous because I’m kind of a lone hermit and it’s always quiet at my place... I don’t know. Then again, my other two cats aren’t like this at all.

 

[Furballsmom]

Then again, my other two cats aren’t like this at all.

exactly...hang in there!!

 

[Willowy]

So I Googled "torb for cats" and apparently this is what vets commonly call "torb". The generic name is butorphanol tartrate: TORBUGESIC-SA

But it's still a painkiller so the same point stands. Cats act weird when they're in pain. And if she's not in pain but it still works for her mental issues, that's great too! It does come in pill form, might be worth a try if you don't see the results you want from Prozac.
Butorphanol

 

[rubysmama]

I also don't like the fatalistic tone that this vet seems to be taking. I would encourage looking into a feline only vet, even if it's a bit of a drive to get to.

Me either.

If you want to look into cat only vets, here a link to search for one in your area. Just be sure you choose "Feline Only" in the Practice Type Drop Down menu.

Find a Veterinarian and Practice | The Cat Community

 

[Jem]

But I really don’t think it has anything to do physically with her. If there’s a noise on the porch, even the slightest faintest noise, she’ll run to it/start sniffing dramatically and try to claw up the carpet to attempt to get out there to see if it’s an animal, I’ve had to pull chunks of carpet out of her nails. If she’s looking out the window and sees a cat, she’ll jump down and stalk through the house until she can attack my boy cat. If she smells another cat...game over.

I really, truly don’t think it has anything to do with pain, though.

Keep in mind that just because noises and smells are what "set her off", does not mean that pain is not the cause. If she is in pain, she will feel insecure in her territory. This causes her to be overly anxious about seemingly small things.
I had an aggressive cat who displayed every type of aggression known to the cat world. And it's because he was always on "high alert". He had issues with chronic crystals in his urine, something that we did not find out about until almost 2 years into the start of his aggression. He never blocked, never showed symptoms of "painful urination", his behavior was spot on for a cat with territorial insecurities. And unfortunately, something we didn't know until it was too late, he also had a heart condition. He never displayed any symptoms of issues with his heart until they were so bad that he ended up with congestive heart failure. It's hard to mask the pain and discomfort of over 300mls of fluid in his chest. But he did so like a champ until he literally could not physically breath anymore.
Please do not discount pain as your source for this problem, it may seem far fetched but I can't stress enough that it can most definitely be the cause. When they say that cats can hide their pain they REALLY hide it WELL.

 

[pearl99]

Keep in mind that just because noises and smells are what "set her off", does not mean that pain is not the cause. If she is in pain, she will feel insecure in her territory. This causes her to be overly anxious about seemingly small things.
I had an aggressive cat who displayed every type of aggression known to the cat world. And it's because he was always on "high alert". He had issues with chronic crystals in his urine, something that we did not find out about until almost 2 years into the start of his aggression. He never blocked, never showed symptoms of "painful urination", his behavior was spot on for a cat with territorial insecurities. And unfortunately, something we didn't know until it was too late, he also had a heart condition. He never displayed any symptoms of issues with his heart until they were so bad that he ended up with congestive heart failure. It's hard to mask the pain and discomfort of over 300mls of fluid in his chest. But he did so like a champ until he literally could not physically breath anymore.
Please do not discount pain as your source for this problem, it may seem far fetched but I can't stress enough that it can most definitely be the cause. When they say that cats can hide their pain they REALLY hide it WELL.

I've been pondering this and reading about cats and pain this morning and I agree with this. Could be pain that started when quite young for whatever reason contributing to it.

 

[catluvs]

I’m go

Keep in mind that just because noises and smells are what "set her off", does not mean that pain is not the cause. If she is in pain, she will feel insecure in her territory. This causes her to be overly anxious about seemingly small things.
I had an aggressive cat who displayed every type of aggression known to the cat world. And it's because he was always on "high alert". He had issues with chronic crystals in his urine, something that we did not find out about until almost 2 years into the start of his aggression. He never blocked, never showed symptoms of "painful urination", his behavior was spot on for a cat with territorial insecurities. And unfortunately, something we didn't know until it was too late, he also had a heart condition. He never displayed any symptoms of issues with his heart until they were so bad that he ended up with congestive heart failure. It's hard to mask the pain and discomfort of over 300mls of fluid in his chest. But he did so like a champ until he literally could not physically breath anymore.
Please do not discount pain as your source for this problem, it may seem far fetched but I can't stress enough that it can most definitely be the cause. When they say that cats can hide their pain they REALLY hide it WELL.

I’m going to call and see how much a blood test/X-Ray would be, but the more I think about it, I truly don’t think that’s it. It’d be nice if I could be able to confirm it, though. I mean, I understand if she was aggressive when touched (I grew up with an old cat who had arthritis and would shred your hand when you touched her back, that kind of “aggression” I can definitely understand and deal with) and my boy cat just had a urinary blockage, and the vet said he’s probably had crystals in his urine for a long time. He’s never even hissed at me. No cats are the same/show pain the same way, true, but she lets me pick her up, hold her like a baby, she’s not tender anywhere, she likes belly rubs, etc. I’d consider her too confident of a cat. It’s almost like a severe case of anxiety where she feels everything heightened and doesn’t know how to deal when it spills over. One time, I was crying at my kitchen table alone, and she attacked me out of no where, because she hates a tense environment. She was attacking her littermates in really rough play time when she was barely off the bottle. I looked at it with affection then, not so much now, lol. But, hopefully if I can swing another vet visit I will. I’m currently creating my own Temptations pill pockets. Fingers crossed.

Oh, and the nearest feline vet from me is almost 100 miles away :\

 

[Jem]

I’d consider her too confident of a cat. It’s almost like a severe case of anxiety where she feels everything heightened and doesn’t know how to deal when it spills over. One time, I was crying at my kitchen table alone, and she attacked me out of no where, because she hates a tense environment. She was attacking her littermates in really rough play time when she was barely off the bottle. I looked at it with affection then, not so much now, lol.

I swear you are describing my boy. He also would act out / attack towards "weakness". It's funny and sad at the same time, but he would often be our alert for our other boy who had CKD. He would start attacking him "for no reason" and we would know that Toby was getting sick again before Toby even displayed any symptoms to us. Hank was NOT the nurturing type and would pick on the "weak". Again, that can be linked to territorial insecurities. Weakness means they are a threat, not to themselves but instinctively, it means the attraction of "predators" or the spread of disease to their territory. Momma cats will sometimes kill and eat their own babies when they instinctively know they will not make it in order to protect the rest and themselves.
I'm not saying that pain is the only reason she is aggressive. Our boy was most definitely "high anxiety" and not well socialized prior to the health issues, but the anxiety contributed to the development of his health problems and escalated things into severe aggression.
When his symptoms/illnesses were under control his behavior was still jumpy and hissy, but the aggression was much less.
And you're right, bottle fed babies do tend to be more susceptible to behavior issues if momma cat is not there to teach them proper manners, all cats are different and will respond differently as well. My three other cats, who all passed from different illnesses never showed any outward aggression, ever. (Toby was 20 - CKD, Fritz was 14 - complications from hyperthyroid, Chewy was 18 - Cancer). Chewy also, at the age of 15, developed Cystitis and blocked because of a bad bear season and he was so scared of the intrusion, but never did he act out aggressively. Hank on the other hand...well that was a fun summer!
I completely understand your frustration in all this, I can completely sympathize with your entire situation. Hank, when he was not "in one of his moods", was sweet, affectionate, playful, and we could also pick him up and rub his belly. We also debated all the time weather he was overly confident and an under-socialized bully or insecure and anxious.
One time, before we were able to get Hank neutered, he was about 7 months old, he went up to Fritz (the oldest of the crew at the time), sniffed him, then backed up his rear end over him and sprayed ON HIM! When this was starting to go down, I though he was playing and attacking Fritz's tail, but it happened so fast that I did not have time to intervene. Fritz being a mellow cat, just sat there and did nothing and let this young punk spray him. That's one of the reasons it took so long for us to relized that illness was a factor for his extreme aggression, his sense of "alpha male" and "over confidence" was so prevalent even as a kitten that behavior just seemed like what was going on. But I have learned that being a bully and having major territorial issues is usually because of insecurity more than overconfidence. Again, that's just my take on it due to my experience and what I have researched, but I just wanted to give you my perspective, as I know how frustrating it can be.

 

[catluvs]

Update on my temptations pockets: success!! I hope she doesn’t catch on and stops eating them. For now, it’s a go. I’m not giving up on her yet, even if I have to spend 30 minutes shelling out treats with a toothpick.

I really wish I would’ve requested the pill version from the start. I can’t get a refill on the Gabapentin just yet, but hopefully next month I can change it to the pill version and use that as well.

 

[Furballsmom]

I’m not giving up on her yet, even if I have to spend 30 minutes shelling out treats with a toothpick.

Woohoo, good for you!! Fingers crossed!

 

[tarasgirl06]

Actually yeah, I think that’s it. I think she called it “torb”. The more I think about it, the more I really don’t like how easily dismissed my cat seems to be. At first, it seemed like she was very empathetic and wanted the best for her, but now that she said she talked to the other vet in the practice it seems as though my cat is dismissed as a lost cause who, if is unable to take the Prozac, needs to be put down. She didn’t even try to suggest the transdermal version. I think either way, whether I’m able to hide the pill or not, I’m going to call another vet I found. Hopefully I’m able to get a ten minute window to get a second opinion.

I really, truly don’t think it has anything to do with pain, though. I’m not ruling it out, I’d love if it was something more simple that could be more easily fixed/could improve her behavior. But she’s always been this way (I bottle fed them, that’s how long she’s been with me) and it revolves mostly around territory. I just think it’s cognitive. I mean, she always stalks to the door when I come in, ears back, and smells around me/my shoes/the door like a dog. Only after she finds nothing will she seem to relax. Until, you know, she hears something else outside. I can’t help but feel like it’s something I’ve done, how maybe I made her so nervous because I’m kind of a lone hermit and it’s always quiet at my place... I don’t know. Then again, my other two cats aren’t like this at all.

I call BS on that/those vet(s). Who knows how many lives have been lost because of their gloom-and-doom "diagnoses"! IMHO practitioners like those shouldn't be practicing either feline or human/other medicine. Just one more reason why I avoid them.
Great news about the treat "pockets"!
The aggression sounds kind of like me. I'm really easy-going but also noise-sensitive and of course I don't get violent when it's noisy, but I do get very angry with inconsiderate people who force their noise on others. Your girl could be the same way, as cats' hearing is many times more sensitive than humans'.