Suspected IBD or Lymphoma... is surgery worth it?

Margot Lane

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
59
Purraise
85
Small note to Oscar: Zorro’s stools have finally firmed up! I hope this is something Oscar can also look forward to…I am guessing this is due to the steroids & B12 shots, but I think it helps with his internal sense of dignity as well…he seems more relaxed as a result.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #42

rockitorknockit

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Nov 5, 2021
Messages
22
Purraise
58
Small note to Oscar: Zorro’s stools have finally firmed up! I hope this is something Oscar can also look forward to…I am guessing this is due to the steroids & B12 shots, but I think it helps with his internal sense of dignity as well…he seems more relaxed as a result.
Funny you say that - I just called the vet yesterday to mention Oscar's have not yet... She said that's not unusual so far, this morning is only day 5 of them. I am happy to hear that for your Zorro and hoping it happens for Oscar as well!!!

I've definitely noticed he's eating practically nonstop now, and his tummy looks a little bloated. They said this was expected. It scares me because my last that passed had a super bloated belly due to pancreatitis.

He's on an incredibly high dosage of the steroid right now, from what I'm gathering from other things I've read in this forum. I'm not sure what else to be looking out for side-effects-wise, but maybe that's for the best since I'm clearly obsessive about it. His behavior otherwise is completely normal - he's not overly lethargic or sick acting or anything. Just HUNGRY and the somewhat bloated belly. I have not even had a chance to count his breaths as the cardiologist suggested yet because I haven't caught him ASLEEP! I will try today. But he seems okay. I hope he really is right now.
 

Margot Lane

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
59
Purraise
85
Yes my cat is definitely round in the tum and HUNGRY (and thirsty) too. Honestly it’s nice to see him so invigorated after so much…indignity due to the previously runny poo! I think it’s helped his purr as well, tho maybe he is just trying to get another can of catfood,out of me. :) Good luck!
 

Margot Lane

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
59
Purraise
85
Another asterisk for Oscar…just got the “all clear” that Zorro now only needs a B12 shot once a month for the rest of his life, not once a week (hooray!). Don’t know if that is also in store for your kitty but it is a bit of a relief. Also have noted that if you feed him half Prednizalone pills ever, you CAN sneak them into his meals, since he is so hungry he will eat anything in the bowl…which is a nice break from pilling him all the time.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #45

rockitorknockit

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Nov 5, 2021
Messages
22
Purraise
58
Another asterisk for Oscar…just got the “all clear” that Zorro now only needs a B12 shot once a month for the rest of his life, not once a week (hooray!). Don’t know if that is also in store for your kitty but it is a bit of a relief. Also have noted that if you feed him half Prednizalone pills ever, you CAN sneak them into his meals, since he is so hungry he will eat anything in the bowl…which is a nice break from pilling him all the time.
That's so awesome for Zorro!!! Less stuff (vitamins and steroids) seems so good!

Oscar is doing the weekly B12 still, but I'm doing them at home myself now. He seems completely clueless when I do it, so once I got over my personal anxiety about it, it was a non-issue. His regular vet had originally said we could move back to doing them less often, but the internal medicine specialist advised against it, so I've stuck with them.

He also gobbles his pills up really easily, thank God! He currently has three in the morning and one at night. The thyroid pill is weenie and coated so the steroid pills seem huge and nasty comparatively, but he hasn't batted an eye at them. I actually deliver every pill by putting it in half a pill pocket and then sticking that half pill pocket onto a temptation treat. :lol: And I realize temptation treats and pill pockets might not be the best thing for his guts, but he absolutely LOVES them. Some things are a quality of life thing for my boy. He only gets the treats at medicine time, and you better believe he always comes and gets me right on time for them in the morning and evening! Such a good boy taking his medicine! :winkcat:
 

Margot Lane

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
59
Purraise
85
I’m doing the ‘half pill trick’ too! I just jam it in his cat food. You are super brave for doing the shots…I can’t bear to stick a needle in! The vet is still making me “stretch” him for the blood samples tho: next time I’ll wear gloves. Hopefully we’ll both see this through.
 

daftcat75

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
8,565
Purraise
15,508
That's so awesome for Zorro!!! Less stuff (vitamins and steroids) seems so good!

Oscar is doing the weekly B12 still, but I'm doing them at home myself now. He seems completely clueless when I do it, so once I got over my personal anxiety about it, it was a non-issue. His regular vet had originally said we could move back to doing them less often, but the internal medicine specialist advised against it, so I've stuck with them.

He also gobbles his pills up really easily, thank God! He currently has three in the morning and one at night. The thyroid pill is weenie and coated so the steroid pills seem huge and nasty comparatively, but he hasn't batted an eye at them. I actually deliver every pill by putting it in half a pill pocket and then sticking that half pill pocket onto a temptation treat. :lol: And I realize temptation treats and pill pockets might not be the best thing for his guts, but he absolutely LOVES them. Some things are a quality of life thing for my boy. He only gets the treats at medicine time, and you better believe he always comes and gets me right on time for them in the morning and evening! Such a good boy taking his medicine! :winkcat:
Hopefully the temptation/pill pockets do not contain trigger ingredients. I “pilled” Krista each night by hiding two half pred pills inside a pill pocket of my own making—just enough food to wet the pill so that s. boulardii powder stuck to it and those two made a tacky dough-like ball that I could wrap a shaved tuna flake around it. Since Krista was toothless by this time, there was no pulling the flake off and leaving the rest behind. If she wanted the flake, she had to swallow the rest. I knew the tuna was a trigger. But I figured she was taking enough steroids and chemo plus the tuna was just a couple of flakes—I called this our devil’s bargain to remove the nightly wrestling matches we were having before. Unfortunately, it kept her gut fire smoldering for many months and prevented her from achieving full remission. When an ear infection (likely caused by months of taking medicine with a trigger food 🤦🏼‍♂️) forced us to change to transdermal pred, when the flakes were removed from her diet, she finally achieved remission. 🙏 Unfortunately, it was too little too late for her immune-suppressed lymphoma reduced tiny little body. A bladder infection would prove too much for her the next month. 😿🌈

My point is, it may seem like an ease of use or quality of life issue to wrap medicine in treats. But if the treats contain triggers, you are not helping his cause.

I would check with Wedgewood Pharmacy if you can have his medicine compounded into a formulation that’s either appealing to him (flavored oil) or easy for you (transdermal.)
Veterinary Pharmacy
 

Margot Lane

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
59
Purraise
85
Zorro is charmingly, innocently lying in the dark next to my bed, willing me to feed him. I just fed him. He wants more. THIS will go on until my head gets bapped at around 3AM.
 

tyleete

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Messages
95
Purraise
84
Sorry both you and Oscar are having to through with this. He's a beautiful boy.
Personally, no, I would not put him through the surgery. The lining of the walls should tell them what you need to know. And definitely find yourself a proper Oncologist.
My baby was 10 when she was dumped at the shelter for having Lymphoma Cancer. Course, they didn't bother mentioning that and we had to find out after a long time of trying different foods. The vet thinking it was a food problem.
She finally went to have an ultrasound and was diagnosed. Said could do surgery to know 100%. But that ibd and this Cancer was both treated in much the same way. So why do that to her?
Mine did not lose massive weight. She also used to eat dry food till this year.
Her Oncologist explained that chemo is handled much different in cats than humans. It doesn't drag them in the mud like it does people. She was given a prognosis of 1-2yrs. 3 absolute tops and was prescribed 4mg weekly with Prednisolone daily for the constant vomiting, this was daily and before the chemo.
That was 5 1/2yrs ago. I call her my Miracle Baby.:) Over a year ago I took her off the steroids and tried cbd tincture for her. Continual steroids can wreak Nashik on them, while the worst cbd can do is make them groggy if too much is given. She still doesn't throw up. And cbd also helps with inflammation and gut issues in general. And since my baby is 17 going on 18, she's got arthritis too. This helps that as well.
Also! If you go way of chemo drugs like Leukeran/Chlorambucil, there is a compound company in Jersey called Wedgewood Pharmacy. For my cat's first year, I was buying pills for the chemo. They cost me $25 per pill, It finally got to over $200/mo. When the suggested the compounding company.:/ Now I get 4 1/2months with of meds (same drug just in liquid form) for $78. That's with 2 day shipping.
By the way, I also have 2 cats (do a lot of rescue) with IBD. They Used to have diahrea every single day. Did steroids daily But have tried a lot of other routes. Finally found something that seems to be working. It's been 4mo with solid poop and no steroids for either! Pureed chicken and water. It started with Beechnut Stage 1 chicken food. 1 had stopped eating and that's what I feed the ones that did that. Helps get them through. Well she stopped having wet stool. So now that she's eating right again, I make my own by baking chicken, using the ninja blender and adding water. Used to give about 1.25oz twice a day. But her stool was getting too dry. So now I just give it once a day plus her regular food. Then I started my other on it in the same way.
It's worked better than the steroids ever did.
 

daftcat75

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
8,565
Purraise
15,508
Sorry both you and Oscar are having to through with this. He's a beautiful boy.
Personally, no, I would not put him through the surgery. The lining of the walls should tell them what you need to know. And definitely find yourself a proper Oncologist.
My baby was 10 when she was dumped at the shelter for having Lymphoma Cancer. Course, they didn't bother mentioning that and we had to find out after a long time of trying different foods. The vet thinking it was a food problem.
She finally went to have an ultrasound and was diagnosed. Said could do surgery to know 100%. But that ibd and this Cancer was both treated in much the same way. So why do that to her?
Mine did not lose massive weight. She also used to eat dry food till this year.
Her Oncologist explained that chemo is handled much different in cats than humans. It doesn't drag them in the mud like it does people. She was given a prognosis of 1-2yrs. 3 absolute tops and was prescribed 4mg weekly with Prednisolone daily for the constant vomiting, this was daily and before the chemo.
That was 5 1/2yrs ago. I call her my Miracle Baby.:) Over a year ago I took her off the steroids and tried cbd tincture for her. Continual steroids can wreak Nashik on them, while the worst cbd can do is make them groggy if too much is given. She still doesn't throw up. And cbd also helps with inflammation and gut issues in general. And since my baby is 17 going on 18, she's got arthritis too. This helps that as well.
Also! If you go way of chemo drugs like Leukeran/Chlorambucil, there is a compound company in Jersey called Wedgewood Pharmacy. For my cat's first year, I was buying pills for the chemo. They cost me $25 per pill, It finally got to over $200/mo. When the suggested the compounding company.:/ Now I get 4 1/2months with of meds (same drug just in liquid form) for $78. That's with 2 day shipping.
By the way, I also have 2 cats (do a lot of rescue) with IBD. They Used to have diahrea every single day. Did steroids daily But have tried a lot of other routes. Finally found something that seems to be working. It's been 4mo with solid poop and no steroids for either! Pureed chicken and water. It started with Beechnut Stage 1 chicken food. 1 had stopped eating and that's what I feed the ones that did that. Helps get them through. Well she stopped having wet stool. So now that she's eating right again, I make my own by baking chicken, using the ninja blender and adding water. Used to give about 1.25oz twice a day. But her stool was getting too dry. So now I just give it once a day plus her regular food. Then I started my other on it in the same way.
It's worked better than the steroids ever did.
So great to hear successes!

A couple of notes:

1. CBD is wonderfully safe on its own. If she ever needs steroids again, CBD should not be given with steroids. If she’s taking any other meds, search for “cannabis drug interactions” to see if there are any warnings. Cannabis more commonly refers to THC. But CBD and THC are chemically very similar and will have many of the same interactions.

2. Since chemo pills are cytotoxic (kills cells), you want to get the chemo compounded into a liquid and a flavor your cat will take on his own. Otherwise, you have to pill your cat with gloves. I got Krista’s chlorambucil formulated into a highly concentrated (10X) anchovy flavored oil. This way her dose was only 0.1 mL instead of a full 1 mL. That also meant that I had room enough to mix it with a touch of salmon oil just in case there was a leftover funky medicine taste. The two combined was an oil puddle about the size of a nickel that Krista willingly disappeared on a plate of its own before getting her regularly scheduled meal.

3. Be careful with unbalanced foods like baby food and puréed chicken. Meat is not complete. Meat is missing calcium. (Among other things!) Whatever calcium the body needs that isn’t coming from diet will be taken from the body’s calcium stores: teeth and bones. A calcium deficient diet can wreck a cat slowly and horribly. If this is an emergency food to get them through a rough time, that’s okay. An otherwise healthy cat can eat an unbalanced diet for a week or two. But much past that, if they aren’t back on their regular food again, you should look into a supplement powder like EZ Complete (no added liver needed) or Alnutrin which has fewer chicken ingredients but does require the addition of liver. If you can’t source fresh (or frozen) liver or just don’t like dealing with, you can use freeze-dried liver at about 1/3 the called for amount. You can find freeze-dried liver in many different protein choices in the dog training or dog treats section. As long as the only ingredient is liver, that’s good to use in place of fresh (at 1/3 the called for amount)

Keep up the great work! Your cats are lucky to have you. 👍😻
 

Margot Lane

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
59
Purraise
85
Wow this is good intel, esp. since I have 4 chemo pills left to go before the big blood test. I do hope someday veterinarians figure out how to stop IBS -and of course lymphoma- in its tracks before this occurs. Hopefully lots of vets are reading our comments and taking notes. Can’t help wondering if my dad hadn’t insisted on dry and Fancy Feast for him all those young cat years, we might not not be in this predicament now. Honestly Zorro always seems most like a cat when he eats the occasional mouse or bird but of course that can’t be sanctioned! Will definitely look into this—- thank you both.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #52

rockitorknockit

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Nov 5, 2021
Messages
22
Purraise
58
Echoing the gratitude. Thanks, all, for the tips. I will definitely be looking at Wedgewood today. As it stands, Oscar's poops are still exactly same so far. His eating seems to be leveling out to something a little more normal, though (vs the non-stop eating that was happening a couple of days ago).

Today I'm a little worried about him. He's sneezing and his eyes are a bit runny (clear, watery). He's been known to have some allergies (sneezing and some eye gunk have been part of his history since he was a baby), but am concerned about this with all of his health issues now + the steroid. He also just seems a little puny, but it could very well be in my head. I feel sick today myself, so I might be projecting.

Both his regular vet and the specialists vet are closed today because it is Sunday. I don't think it is emergency level, to warrant an emergency vet visit/call today? So I was going to call his vet/specialist in the morning. But I'm also going to try and count his breaths today. He's hanging out with me while I work today, so I'm keeping close eyes.
 

tyleete

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Messages
95
Purraise
84
I only give the pureed chicken as a supplement myself. If all that above was for me. The 2 ibd cats I use it on still eat both wet & dry foods. The chicken is used not as a meal, but pretty much as a treat for them, but am awesome cure for me.:)
I'd like to ask where you get the 10x liquid Chlorambucil made? My Cancer kitty takes 1ml once a week. It's 'chicken flavored', but she won't take it on her own. She hates any meds, including the salmon oil flavored cbd. That'd be awesome to only have to give her the 0.1ml vs 1ml of chemo.
Thanks!
 

daftcat75

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
8,565
Purraise
15,508
I only give the pureed chicken as a supplement myself. If all that above was for me. The 2 ibd cats I use it on still eat both wet & dry foods. The chicken is used not as a meal, but pretty much as a treat for them, but am awesome cure for me.:)
I'd like to ask where you get the 10x liquid Chlorambucil made? My Cancer kitty takes 1ml once a week. It's 'chicken flavored', but she won't take it on her own. She hates any meds, including the salmon oil flavored cbd. That'd be awesome to only have to give her the 0.1ml vs 1ml of chemo.
Thanks!
I got the 10x chlorambucil from Wedgewood. In addition to different formulations and flavors, you can often get it in different strengths too. I got it as concentrated as they would make it knowing Krista would probably refuse to take a full mL of anything if it wasn’t her idea.
 

Margot Lane

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
59
Purraise
85
…another note to Oscar! I just finished my first regimen of chemo pills, did the full blood panel and results are good! For us this means NO PRED at night, halelujah, meaning we both relax more, sleep more, and he’s not waking me up 3X to be FED. (And yay, less cat food to buy!). Hopefully this is something to which you also can look forward! We now have to get a urine sample: I’m trying to see if I can just go the dropper route, but, it sounds as if the vet wants it straight from the belly. “Does it hurt?” I asked. Vet: “No more so than drawing the blood.” Unfortunately, it still seems like we have to stay on the chemo pills…they didn’t say for how long. (Hard to have all those darn questions ready, so maybe YOU’LL find that one out and let us both know what the future holds). Also she likes I’m giving him probiotics…..Just letting you know all this as it seems it IS possible to exhale, a little. Cannot tell you how happier Zorro acts being off PRED a little bit more. Good luck, and please let us know what happens! 🐾 🤞
 

Margot Lane

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
59
Purraise
85
Continued hope Oscar is doing well! My vet says it’s standard for a cat to be on chemo for a year…thought you might want to know! Beginning to taper the pred which helps us both TREE mendously: he is less frantically hungry and thus we both get more sleep. Vet says maybe we can discuss adding ‘pancreatic enzymes,’ if anybody has experience w/ it. Hope your orange boy is doing Ok.
 
Top