Stupid Question Re: S. Boulardii :-)

[cheeser]

If your cat has a history of mild yeast and/or fungal skin infections, would an S. boulardii probiotic be a good or a bad thing to give him?

It's very hot and humid where we live, so skin infections are pretty much par for the course. However, since Buddy has shown such dramatic improvement since starting him on Proviable, we just wondered if adding S. boulardii could be of further help?

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

S boulardi is typically used for diarrha, so not sure it would work for yeast infections or fungal skin infections

 

[orange&white]

S. boulardii is actually a strain of baker's yeast, whereas other probiotics are strains of bacteria (the good kinds). S. boulardii might have the opposite effect on fungal/yeast infections and make them worse.

 

[cheeser]

S boulardi is typically used for diarrha, so not sure it would work for yeast infections or fungal skin infections

Ah, okay. Thanks! But maybe it could be an option for Oscar. One cat is constipated, and the other one is prone to diarrhea. Never a dull moment around here. ;-)

 

[cheeser]

S. boulardii is actually a strain of baker's yeast, whereas other probiotics are strains of bacteria (the good kinds). S. boulardii might have the opposite effect on fungal/yeast infections and make them worse.

Thanks! That's what I suspected. The Proviable is a little pricey for us to buy for both cats at the moment, and a friend had recommended a cheaper alternative that included S. boulardii. The benefits sounded great in theory, so we were intrigued. But that little voice in my head said, "Whoa. Not so fast. You need to check this out." And I've learned to trust that little voice, especially when it tells me, "Eat more chocolate!"

 

[missmimz]

Yeah it's not really going to do anything for a skin infection. What is this cat eating?

 

[foxden]

cheeser
BTW -- There is no such thing as a stupid question, especially when it is about caring for our purries.....

 

[cheeser]

Yeah it's not really going to do anything for a skin infection. What is this cat eating?

Mostly low-carb chicken based flavors from Weruva and Tiki Cat, with a little Fussie Cat thrown into the mix every once in awhile. Buddy flat out refuses to eat anything except shredded textures, which significantly limits our options. His sense of smell is shot, and I guess if he can't smell his food, he at least wants to chew it. ;-)

I was concerned that Buddy might have developed an allergy to the chicken, and have been trying to find some individual cans of other flavors in stock to try, like lamb, rabbit, etc. But the vet said it's a fungus that's apparently common here where it's hot and nearly 100% humidity most of the year (although I'm not 100% convinced).

The funny thing is that when we started Buddy on Proviable to help improve his immune system health since he's always sick with an URI or something (Buddy is FIV+, and has FHV and some other issues), the fungus improved dramatically almost immediately. Before I wasn't seeing any improvement at all after we finished the Tresaderm ear drops and weeks of chlorhexidine foot soaks that the vet prescribed.

It's just that Buddy's expenses have kinda mushroomed lately, and when someone recommended a less expensive probiotic that contained S. boulardii, we weren't sure if that would be a good thing or a bad thing for Buddy. Then again, my neighbor's pets are perfectly healthy, so they can give their fur babies pretty much anything. ;-)

 

[cheeser]

cheeser
BTW -- There is no such thing as a stupid question, especially when it is about caring for our purries.....

Aw, bless you! What a sweet thing to say, and much appreciated.

 

[red top rescue]

S. boulardii is really a live yeast and not a fungus, and it is non-systemic, i.e. it works INSIDE the intestines only, by coating them where it lives which prevents the unwanted organisms from living there (and it must be given twice a day because it will not procreate and stay in the intestine on its own). It is very effective at wiping out parasites like giardia and coccidia, and it has effectively gotten rid of even antibiotic resistant nasty bacteria like C. difficile (it worked for my cousin when two different expensive antibiotics had failed, and saved her from having to get a fecal transplant!) According to the Wikipedia article, it was safe to use with HIV-1 patients, although severely immunocompromised people (i.e. those being treated with antirejection drugs) might have a problem. Check out the links within the Wikipedia article to find out more about it at Saccharomyces boulardii - Wikipedia. I doubt you would have a problem using probiotics that included the S. boulardii. If you want a heavier article on it than Wikipedia, here's a good one: Efficacy and safety of the probiotic Saccharomyces boulardii for the prevention and therapy of gastrointestinal disorders

It may not help his skin but you said the probiotics did make a difference. I know there is one many of the folks in the Nutrition Forum recommend which includes S. boulardii and three or four other things. It's more expensive than S. boulardi alone but I don't remember the name of it. It may be the one your friend recommended.

What I would recommend if he has a problem with skin fungus is a shampoo that contains ketaconazole. That gets the toughest fungus of all, ringworm. There are many made and you can get one that has ketoconazole and chlorhexadine, because the chlorhexadine kills bacterial infections and the ketoconazole kills fungal infections. Pure Love Ketoconazole 1%, Chlorhexidine 2% Shampoo for Dogs and Cats is the one we use. If you just google ketoconazole shampoo, you will see it is used in a lot of human shampoos so it isn't hard to find, but this one is designed for pets. Scroll down and read the reviews from other pet owners. We swear by it here in humid Georgia!

 

[kashmir64]

Question for those in the know. I have always used brewers yeast on my horses and now on my dogs to help with biting parasites. But, one of the side effects is a smoother coat and better skin. I have no idea if this would work in this case or if you can use it on cats. Do some of you know? Would it help in this situation?

 

[cheeser]

Georgia, huh? Awesome, red top rescue ! Then you understand perfectly about the challenges of a subtropical climate.

Thanks bunches for the links re: S. boulardii. Much of it is over my head, but it does look helpful. And thanks ever so much for the info about the shampoo. I don't know why the vet didn't think to recommend something as simple as that, instead of just plain ol' chlorhexidine.

This is all so confusing to me because I had read some articles on the interwebs that said if your cat already suffers from yeast/fungal infections, the last thing in the world you want to do is add even more yeast to his system. Then I stumbled across another article somewhere that said adding a yeast based probiotic would help your cat better fight off yeast infections. Hee!

No matter what we do, it's always a balancing act. As soon as we figure out what works best for Buddy to resolve Problem A, then Problem B flares up. Then as soon as we get Problem B back under control, Problem C decides to make a comeback -- with the added bonus of brand new Problems X, Y, and Z as a side dish. ;-)

The funny thing is that our vet swears up and down that L-lysine is the answer to all of Buddy's problems. Well, that and whatever bag of Hill's Prescription Diet he feels is appropriate that particular day. And guess what one of the inactive ingredients is in the L-lysine that the vet recommends? Brewer's yeast.

We've also been told that the maltodextrin in the Jarrow lactoferrin could cancel out any benefits from the probiotics. Wanna guess what's in the Proviable?

 

[cheeser]

Question for those in the know. I have always used brewers yeast on my horses and now on my dogs to help with biting parasites. But, one of the side effects is a smoother coat and better skin. I have no idea if this would work in this case or if you can use it on cats. Do some of you know? Would it help in this situation?

I'm hardly in the know, but just for grins...

Once upon a time in a galaxy far, far, away, one vet told us that we could feed our cats brewer's yeast and/or rub it into their fur as a natural remedy for fleas. I don't know if it really helped or not, but it sure made us laugh. The poor things looked like they had just fallen into the flour bin.

 

[missmimz]

Mostly low-carb chicken based flavors from Weruva and Tiki Cat, with a little Fussie Cat thrown into the mix every once in awhile. Buddy flat out refuses to eat anything except shredded textures, which significantly limits our options. His sense of smell is shot, and I guess if he can't smell his food, he at least wants to chew it. ;-)

I was concerned that Buddy might have developed an allergy to the chicken, and have been trying to find some individual cans of other flavors in stock to try, like lamb, rabbit, etc. But the vet said it's a fungus that's apparently common here where it's hot and nearly 100% humidity most of the year (although I'm not 100% convinced).

The funny thing is that when we started Buddy on Proviable to help improve his immune system health since he's always sick with an URI or something (Buddy is FIV+, and has FHV and some other issues), the fungus improved dramatically almost immediately. Before I wasn't seeing any improvement at all after we finished the Tresaderm ear drops and weeks of chlorhexidine foot soaks that the vet prescribed.

It's just that Buddy's expenses have kinda mushroomed lately, and when someone recommended a less expensive probiotic that contained S. boulardii, we weren't sure if that would be a good thing or a bad thing for Buddy. Then again, my neighbor's pets are perfectly healthy, so they can give their fur babies pretty much anything. ;-)

Have you tried lactoferrin?

 

[cheeser]

Have you tried lactoferrin?

Yep. Buddy is also on Transfer Factor, L-lysine, Zylkene, Proviable, and Claritin. Zyrtec had been suggested as an option, as apparently it's supposed to be better for cats with funky immune systems. But since we're still trying to get the constipation issue sorted out that started when Tiki Cat discontinued and/or changed the formula for many of Buddy's favorite flavors, we hated to throw any more changes at the poor guy at the moment.

Before the forced dietary changes, Buddy had been doing the best he had ever done with the Transfer Factor/Lactoferrin/L-lysine combo. Upper respiratory infections that used last 2-3 weeks suddenly began to resolve within 2-3 days. But the breakthrough re: the skin infections didn't occur until we started Buddy on the Proviable. Honestly, it was like magic.

 

[red top rescue]

Georgia, huh? Awesome, red top rescue ! Then you understand perfectly about the challenges of a subtropical climate.

Thanks bunches for the links re: S. boulardii. Much of it is over my head, but it does look helpful. And thanks ever so much for the info about the shampoo. I don't know why the vet didn't think to recommend something as simple as that, instead of just plain ol' chlorhexidine.

This is all so confusing to me because I had read some articles on the interwebs that said if your cat already suffers from yeast/fungal infections, the last thing in the world you want to do is add even more yeast to his system. Then I stumbled across another article somewhere that said adding a yeast based probiotic would help your cat better fight off yeast infections. Hee!

No matter what we do, it's always a balancing act. As soon as we figure out what works best for Buddy to resolve Problem A, then Problem B flares up. Then as soon as we get Problem B back under control, Problem C decides to make a comeback -- with the added bonus of brand new Problems X, Y, and Z as a side dish. ;-)

The funny thing is that our vet swears up and down that L-lysine is the answer to all of Buddy's problems. Well, that and whatever bag of Hill's Prescription Diet he feels is appropriate that particular day. And guess what one of the inactive ingredients is in the L-lysine that the vet recommends? Brewer's yeast.

We've also been told that the maltodextrin in the Jarrow lactoferrin could cancel out any benefits from the probiotics. Wanna guess what's in the Proviable?

There is no maltodextrin in the Jarrow Lactoferrin that I use. It has lactoferrin, cellulose, magnesium stearate (vegetable source) and silicon dioxide. Capsule consists of gelatin.
As for lysine, after reading the article about lysine not being all that helpful to cats as it is to humans, I tried the lactoferrin with and without lysine and I've stopped using lysine (except for me). The lactoferrin alone seems to be the key. A good diet is also key, so I hope you are giving him primarily WET food with muscle meat as the No. 1 ingredient, followed by moderate fat, and very little to no carbohydrates, certainly no wheat, corn, soy, sweet potatoes, peas, potatoes, any kind of vegetable starch, tapioca starch or gluten. The only veggie I allow in my cats' foods is a little rice or brown rice. I can list about 4 affordable canned foods that meet these requirements -- maybe more if I included a primarily fish-based food but I do not. Many of these foods do have a little fish in them, low on the list, and that's all the fish they ever get. I don't use ANY prescription foods and have had multiple cats for multiple years and not a single case of FLUTD, IBD or diabetes in over 30 years.

As for a good probiotic combo that INCLUDES S. boulardii, I think what people have used in the past is Nexabiotic BUT it includes maltodextrin. Also, from an old thread by Laurie @ldg there is one in Canada: "There is a different brand in Canada that has all three types (lactobacillus, bifidobacteria, and S boulardii) : Travelers’ Probiotic | New Roots Herbal But again - this is not for treatment of diarrhea, it is for maintenance once the diarrhea is under control from using S boulardii." You might check that one out too.

 

[cheeser]

There is no maltodextrin in the Jarrow Lactoferrin that I use. It has lactoferrin, cellulose, magnesium stearate (vegetable source) and silicon dioxide. Capsule consists of gelatin.

Huh. You're absolutely right. Those are the same ingredients on the brand new bottle I just bought. Maybe it's a conspiracy, since my vet has been dead set against us using the lactoferrin. ;-)

As for lysine, after reading the article about lysine not being all that helpful to cats as it is to humans, I tried the lactoferrin with and without lysine and I've stopped using lysine (except for me). The lactoferrin alone seems to be the key.

I've tried to discontinue the L-lysine, as I've read that it's now believed not to be as helpful as once thought. Each time, Buddy starts getting a weepy eye and sores on his mouth within a day or two. I guess Buddy hasn't been reading the same articles I have. ;-)

A good diet is also key, so I hope you are giving him primarily WET food with muscle meat as the No. 1 ingredient, followed by moderate fat, and very little to no carbohydrates, certainly no wheat, corn, soy, sweet potatoes, peas, potatoes, any kind of vegetable starch, tapioca starch or gluten.

Buddy has been on a wet food only diet ever since he developed FLUTD a couple of years or so ago. Unfortunately, he'll only eat shredded textures, and almost all of the non-fish flavors by Weruva, Tiki Cat and Fussie Cat contain chicken as the primary protein. So I'm scrambling to try to find some individual cans of other proteins with shredded textures. And dang it, I can't find Pride by Instinct sold by the can in any of the stores around here.

Honestly, I don't know what to think about the possible maltodextrin issue. Our vet has fought us every step of the way re: nutritional supplements. But at least he doesn't want to euthanize Buddy because of his FIV status, which is more than I can say about other vets around here. ;-)

 

[cheeser]

What I would recommend if he has a problem with skin fungus is a shampoo that contains ketaconazole. That gets the toughest fungus of all, ringworm. There are many made and you can get one that has ketoconazole and chlorhexadine, because the chlorhexadine kills bacterial infections and the ketoconazole kills fungal infections. Pure Love Ketoconazole 1%, Chlorhexidine 2% Shampoo for Dogs and Cats is the one we use. If you just google ketoconazole shampoo, you will see it is used in a lot of human shampoos so it isn't hard to find, but this one is designed for pets. Scroll down and read the reviews from other pet owners. We swear by it here in humid Georgia!

Sorry to bother you, but I just have a quick follow-up question. Is this one of those things that's super critical to rinse well?

Buddy is quite a handful and difficult for me to manage by myself, so the only way I've been able to figure out how to do foot soaks is to dip a washcloth or a baby wipe in diluted chlorhexidine, and wrap it around his paw like a compress. Then after a few minutes, I wipe his foot with a cloth dipped in fresh water as best I can.

 

[cat princesses]

I have just starting using S. Boullardi for one of my cats who since I adoped her a year and a half ago – has rarely had solid formed stool. We have run the gammet of trying things like stool tests, panacur de wormer, flagyl, pumpkin etc. She has severe allergies to dust mites and storage mites – took us forever to finally figure out here constant licking ( she was making sores on her thighs and knees ). The dermatologist put her on almost 2 months of Predlisolone 5mg and also the dog version of Atopica ( easy to use pill vs. liquid for cats which apparently tastes horrible. ) Because of the atopica weakening her immune system – we were told absolutely NO raw food ( breaks my heart, I had just started them back on the Rad Cat ). Apparently the atopica insert clearly says do not feed a raw diet and the dermo concern is that she’s at risk for Toxoplasma. Thought I think it’s very unlikely a risk after speaking to the manufacturer and hearing what their process is for ensuring this isn’t a risk and also hearing from the local pet store that when their shipment comes in it’s in a crate on dry ice – so there is no way even if it was sitting on a dock that it could in any way thaw. Anyways, I have become desperate and really don’t want to put my cat thru an endoscopy procedure if I really don’t have to. I read about the S. boullardi and have been giving this to her 2x per day pilling her directly by mouth. She just woudn’t eat it in baby food or her wet food. I noticed yesterday finally for the 1st time, I saw her in the litter box and she had a solid, formed poop! I have never been so excited in all my life! I was googling to read more about S. Boullardi and came across this information below – wondering now if there is a risk and if I should stop giving this to kitty? I really hate to have to stop, it’s literally been the only thing that has gotten her poops formed and solid! I’m also wondering about using other human probiotics – I think I have read that some members use acidophilus? Does that help for cats with soft stools?



Weakened immune system: There is some concern that critically ill people, people who have a weakened immune system, and people who are taking medicines that alter the immune system might have an increased risk for developing a yeast infection that spreads to the bloodstream and the rest of the body (fungemia) if they take Saccharomyces boulardii. Although Saccharomyces generally doesn’t cause disease, there have been numerous cases of fungemia following its use, primarily in people with a weakened immune system

 

[Gizmobius]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but is it possible for s. boulardii to make diarrhea worse? I got the Jarrow brand with MOS and have given my kitten half a pill twice a day mixed into his food and it's only day 2 and his soft stool has turned into liquid diarrhea. Is it possible I'm giving him too high of a dose? I was going to give him a couple days to get back to where he was before trying again with 1/4 capsule twice a day.