Sokoke? Bengal?

Blondyhan

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Google lens suggests that Tobias is a Sokoke or Bengal mix. What do y’all think? View attachment 316763
I have half a Marbeled Bengal half a tabby mix and he looks very similar. Also looking at the body structure etc. Also Bengals fur is smooth and silky soft, snd has sparkle to it. You will know what I mean if its sunny and you look at his fur and how it reflects. Also how is his behaviour? Does he come and greet you when you come home? Or when you call for him he comes. Or follow you arround everywhere? Loves water? Very vocal, likeing to have conversation with you? When you throw toys would she pick it up and bring it to you.. they also can learn to open doors, especially fridge.. watch tv with you... and they dont like to be on their own....
 

jen

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I have half a Marbeled Bengal half a tabby mix
Tabby is not a breed so that cannot be possible in the way you stated it.

In other words, all Bengals have a tabby coat pattern, but very rarely are tabbies automatically the Bengal breed, hope that makes sense.
 
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Hoslund0821

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Are you sure that Tobias is a boy? In your first picture, the tabby markings appear mottled with red-brown, which makes me wonder if Tobias is a patched tabby / torbie.
Tobias is a girl! But we thought she was a boy at first so we named her Tobias lol I usually refer to her as “he” because the name throws people off!
 
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Hoslund0821

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I have half a Marbeled Bengal half a tabby mix and he looks very similar. Also looking at the body structure etc. Also Bengals fur is smooth and silky soft, snd has sparkle to it. You will know what I mean if its sunny and you look at his fur and how it reflects. Also how is his behaviour? Does he come and greet you when you come home? Or when you call for him he comes. Or follow you arround everywhere? Loves water? Very vocal, likeing to have conversation with you? When you throw toys would she pick it up and bring it to you.. they also can learn to open doors, especially fridge.. watch tv with you... and they dont like to be on their own....
Yes! Very silky soft glittery fur. She plays fetch and always hangs out with us. She’s really smart and tries to open our bedroom door lol
 

lutece

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Tobias is a girl! But we thought she was a boy at first so we named her Tobias lol I usually refer to her as “he” because the name throws people off!
Ok, that's what I thought... if Tobias is a female, that explains the red patches :)

I would describe Tobias as a brown patched classic tabby domestic shorthair. You can also refer to this color as brown classic torbie. Patched tabby / torbie is such a pretty and eye-catching color, so I can see why you wondered about her. However, note that Bengals don't come in this color. I am not really seeing any evidence of Bengal ancestry in these photos... her coloring looks normal for a patched tabby / torbie. Most cats are not any particular breed.
 
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Hoslund0821

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Its getting difficult with Bengals.
So many backyard breeders playing around trying to come up with different patterns and colors and failing then dumping the offspring into shelters and the street. So you end up with a purebred but bad quality pattern and coloring Bengals appearing anywhere.
I just look at the physical attributes and ignore the coat except the length of the fur.
My last Bengal you would think he was a ginger tabby at first glance, but he was purebreed and has papers with a strong line of parents...the whole litter come out biased in fur and pigmentation to the domestic cat way back in their heritage. But don't ask me to look at any other breed...couldn't tell if it was a wood duck or a horse.
That’s really interesting to think about. It makes sense that breeders would play around and try to get different coat patterns but then risk having patterns that they aren’t happy with and dump them in the streets. There’s actually a bengal breeder near me so it makes me wonder........I personally think Tobias has an awesome pattern but I can see how it wouldn’t meet the quality that breeders look for.
 

lutece

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That’s really interesting to think about. It makes sense that breeders would play around and try to get different coat patterns but then risk having patterns that they aren’t happy with and dump them in the streets.
No, this doesn't really make sense to me. Even if you assume someone is only out to make money (which isn't true of most breeders), there would be no point in a breeder "dumping" kittens just because of an unwanted color/pattern... you've already put in so much time and money raising the kittens, why not sell them to pet buyers? Often, pet buyers find odd colors/patterns to be interesting and special.

As far as Tobias goes, she's a patched tabby / torbie... which is not a possible color out of a Bengal breeding, so she could not be a "dumped" Bengal. In order to produce a patched tabby like Tobias, one parent must be red, tortoiseshell or patched tabby. Red can't be "carried" or appear by accident in a litter, and it isn't a color seen in Bengals.

Most breeders are very caring and would be horrified at the idea of "dumping" a cat for any reason. Most breeders I know will take back one of their cats at any age if the owner can't care for it... most breeders I know will also do anything they can to rescue any cat of their breed that loses its home or is found at a shelter, and many breeders are also involved in general rescue for all cats. Contrary to what some people say, breeders are not out there dumping cats left and right. Sigh...
 
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Hoslund0821

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No, this doesn't really make sense to me. Even if you assume someone is only out to make money (which isn't true of most breeders), there would be no point in a breeder "dumping" kittens just because of an unwanted color/pattern... you've already put in so much time and money raising the kittens, why not sell them to pet buyers? Often, pet buyers find odd colors/patterns to be interesting and special.

As far as Tobias goes, she's a patched tabby / torbie... which is not a possible color out of a Bengal breeding, so she could not be a "dumped" Bengal. In order to produce a patched tabby like Tobias, one parent must be red, tortoiseshell or patched tabby. Red can't be "carried" or appear by accident in a litter, and it isn't a color seen in Bengals.

Most breeders are very caring and would be horrified at the idea of "dumping" a cat for any reason. Most breeders I know will take back one of their cats at any age if the owner can't care for it... most breeders I know will also do anything they can to rescue any cat of their breed that loses its home or is found at a shelter, and many breeders are also involved in general rescue for all cats. Contrary to what some people say, breeders are not out there dumping cats left and right. Sigh...
Okay dude, no need to go off on me. Was just stating that it was an interesting hypothesis.
 
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Hoslund0821

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No, this doesn't really make sense to me. Even if you assume someone is only out to make money (which isn't true of most breeders), there would be no point in a breeder "dumping" kittens just because of an unwanted color/pattern... you've already put in so much time and money raising the kittens, why not sell them to pet buyers? Often, pet buyers find odd colors/patterns to be interesting and special.

As far as Tobias goes, she's a patched tabby / torbie... which is not a possible color out of a Bengal breeding, so she could not be a "dumped" Bengal. In order to produce a patched tabby like Tobias, one parent must be red, tortoiseshell or patched tabby. Red can't be "carried" or appear by accident in a litter, and it isn't a color seen in Bengals.

Most breeders are very caring and would be horrified at the idea of "dumping" a cat for any reason. Most breeders I know will take back one of their cats at any age if the owner can't care for it... most breeders I know will also do anything they can to rescue any cat of their breed that loses its home or is found at a shelter, and many breeders are also involved in general rescue for all cats. Contrary to what some people say, breeders are not out there dumping cats left and right. Sigh...
And yes, bengals CAN have reddish orange hues to their coat.
 

lutece

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And yes, bengals CAN have reddish orange hues to their coat.
Yes, Bengals can have warm tones to the coat color, but they don't have the sex-linked red gene which is responsible for red cats, tortoiseshells and patched tabbies / torbies. Tobias has red tabby patches on her brown tabby coat, making her a patched tabby.
 
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lutece

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Okay dude, no need to go off on me. Was just stating that it was an interesting hypothesis.
It's a common misconception, and my comments are not aimed at you specifically. We often have people coming to this site saying that the kitten they found must have been "dumped" by a breeder because it resembles some breed.
 

Willowy

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Contrary to what some people say, breeders are not out there dumping cats left and right. Sigh...
Not good breeders, obviously. But, uh, well. . .yeah it happens. Several purebred Bengals have ended up at the local Humane Society, and can be traced back to their breeder (who will NOT take them back). Seems like everybody and their brother is breeding Bengals right now. They aren't all going to be responsible.
there would be no point in a breeder "dumping" kittens just because of an unwanted color/pattern
Didn't the old-timey breeders used to "dispose of" mismarked kittens? Why wouldn't some modern breeders do the same? Though perhaps in a different way because cultural norms have changed.

When anyone goes looking for a purebred pet, one of the first things to notice is how many terrible breeders there are :/. Which doesn't in any way detract from what responsible breeders do. I just don't think sugarcoating things helps at all.
 
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lutece

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Not good breeders, obviously. But, uh, well. . .yeah it happens. Several purebred Bengals have ended up at the local Humane Society, and can be traced back to their breeder (who will NOT take them back). Seems like everybody and their brother is breeding Bengals right now. They aren't all going to be responsible.
Yes, sometimes purebred cats end up in shelters for a variety of reasons, but this doesn't mean that these cats were dumped as kittens. Even for an incredibly irresponsible "breeder" who didn't care about the welfare of their cats, it wouldn't make sense to raise a kitten to weaning age and then "dump" it instead of sell it. Kittens are much easier to place than older cats. If an irresponsible person is going to dump cats on the street, it would make more sense for them to dump older cats, not cute little kittens :( That doesn't make their irresponsible behavior any better, obviously...!!! But it makes it unlikely that a kitten found on the street would have been "dumped" by a breeder.
 
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Hoslund0821

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Yes, Bengals can have warm tones to the coat color, but they don't have the sex-linked red gene which is responsible for red cats, tortoiseshells and patched tabbies / torbies. Tobias has red tabby patches on her brown tabby coat, making her a patched tabby.
Nice observation?
 

lutece

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Didn't the old-timey breeders used to "dispose of" mismarked kittens? Why wouldn't some modern breeders do the same? Though perhaps in a different way because cultural norms have changed.
Yeah, around 1900 there were show breeders who talked about drowning kittens at birth, in how-to books and articles. :( That was a long time ago. At this time, show breeders sell "mismarked" kittens (or any kitten that doesn't meet the show standard) as pet quality.

As far as terrible irresponsible breeders are concerned, such people typically don't pay much attention to breed standards... they just produce kittens. So it doesn't make sense that they would dispose of kittens for the reason that they didn't meet a breed standard.
 

Willowy

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So it doesn't make sense that they would dispose of kittens for the reason that they didn't meet a breed standard.
But if a kitten doesn't sell for some reason, they cost money to feed if they keep them around. I've known dog breeders who dumped the rest of the litter that didn't sell, even if they sold the others for a lot of money---once the pups are "too old" (usually 4 months) they're a liability, no money to be made. I don't know enough cat breeders to have seen it personally but I'm sure it has happened. A lot of people are terrible really.

Anyway it's a possibility. Probably not with this particular kitty though.
 

sabian

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Manny use to look just like your kitty a year ago! :flail::p Just sayin! I gave him a bowl of milk and voila!
W Willowy You wasting your time! You'll never win! :redtongue:


IMG_4759.JPG
 

lutece

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But if a kitten doesn't sell for some reason, they cost money to feed if they keep them around. I've known dog breeders who dumped the rest of the litter that didn't sell, even if they sold the others for a lot of money---once the pups are "too old" (usually 4 months) they're a liability, no money to be made. I don't know enough cat breeders to have seen it personally but I'm sure it has happened. A lot of people are terrible really.
Dogs can have much bigger litters than cats... puppies tend to be placed quite young and become "too old" at a younger age than kittens do... and it's a lot more trouble to take care of puppies, compared to kittens! So this might be more of a problem with dog breeders? Yes some people are terrible. But when a cat breeder is found to be mistreating their cats, it's typically less of a problem of "dumping," and instead more of a situation where they have too many cats and are not letting enough of them go... which is not really better than dumping (maybe worse) :(
 
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