Snubbing his raw beef and vomiting D:

[fhicat]

Considering taking him to the vet. Recently I switched his raw food from turkey to beef. On the first day he finished his food as usual, but after that he snubs it every time. He'd beg me for food, then nibble the food for a bit before walking away. I keep around a few cans of Wellness Core for "just in cases" like this. Since he eats anything, if he snubs a food I'm inclined to think either health issue or something wrong with the food.

He eats the canned food though. Just not the raw beef. At first I thought it may be the container that I store the food it, so I tried just feeding directly out of the ziploc bag. Still no dice. I'm thinking it is probably a bad batch now. 5 lbs of beef going bad?

Going to try switching him back to turkey (5 lb chubs take forever to thaw). In the meantime though, he vomits once a day when he is on canned. He has vomited 3 times in 4 days - all in my bedroom.

Are these indications of health issues? I know it doesn't hurt to have a vet check him, but he still doesn't trust the carrier and I don't know if it's a good idea to just stuff him in there protesting and meowing.

 

[mschauer]

First, if you put the chubs in water they thaw much faster. You can even put them in water in the refrigerator and they'll thaw after than if just put in the refrigerator.

When he vomits is it just bile, no food? If so he may just be hungry. Is he eating enough of the canned?

My most finicky cat is fond of driving me crazy by eating a food enthusiastically once then refusing it after that. I have to cajole him into eating it again with toppers and most times he eventually will eat it without the toppers

Before going to the vet I'd try just putting him back on the food he was OK with and see what happens.

 

[fhicat]

Make that 4 times in 4 days. Just stepped onto another in the living room. This is barfing way too often.

 

[goholistic]

I'll preface by saying I don't feed my cats raw, yet, but would like to offer my problem-solving tendencies (

) and chime in based on what I've learned from others who do feed raw.

Has he touched the beef at all since that first time? Did he vomit after he ate the beef? I mean, I guess it's possible that it's a bad batch. Can't are far more sensitive to these things.  Two things happened at the same time: 1) started him on beef, and 2) feeding more canned. As to the vomiting, I'm wondering if a) the beef was bad and made him sick, b) he just can't handle red meat and his tummy has not yet recovered, or c) the beef is fine, but the canned food is the problem. Does he have a history of vomiting after eating canned food? As to the snubbing, if the beef is fine quality/safety-wise, perhaps he realized he just doesn't like it and wants his poultry back.  

  Of course, there's also d) there's something else going on that just so happened to creep up when a change was made and he needs vet care.

I agree with @mschauer that you should take a step back and bring out the turkey. Try to stop the vomiting and re-analyze.

 

[ldg]

How often was he eating canned prior to this?

I switched to raw, and hadn't fed the cats canned in over a year. I gave some as a treat to one of my cats on his "Gotcha Day," and he got diarrhea from it. :anon: If he hasn't had the canned in a while, he may now be more sensitive to stuff in it.

The way I handle stomach upsets in the cats is to fast them for 24 hours, then mix a little fractionally distilled aloe vera juice (I use George's, it is distilled juice, not the leaf, so no latex in it) with shredded, poached chicken and the chicken water. If that stays down, I put them back on their regular food.

A 24-hour fast will not hurt an otherwise healthy adult cat, and a "system reset" often helps resolve the problem.

Then I'd put him back on the turkey and see how it goes.

 

[fhicat]

Has he touched the beef at all since that first time? Did he vomit after he ate the beef? I mean, I guess it's possible that it's a bad batch. Can't are far more sensitive to these things.  Two things happened at the same time: 1) started him on beef, and 2) feeding more canned. As to the vomiting, I'm wondering if a) the beef was bad and made him sick, b) he just can't handle red meat and his tummy has not yet recovered, or c) the beef is fine, but the canned food is the problem. Does he have a history of vomiting after eating canned food? As to the snubbing, if the beef is fine quality/safety-wise, perhaps he realized he just doesn't like it and wants his poultry back.  

He has had a can of Wellness beef before. No issues. I could blame the beef if he got sick eating it, but aside from nibbling, he didn't touch it anymore after. I know "he doesn't like it" is a totally valid reason, but him eating anything, even french fries and salad leaves, makes me alarmed when there's something he doesn't eat.

How often was he eating canned prior to this?

Before raw? That's all he eats. When I got my first shipment of raw, he quit canned food cold turkey (GET IT HA HA). I keep around a few cans (Wellness Core Chicken & Liver) for "emergencies" like this, when he doesn't eat the raw food for some reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDG  

I switched to raw, and hadn't fed the cats canned in over a year. I gave some as a treat to one of my cats on his "Gotcha Day," and he got diarrhea from it. 

 If he hasn't had the canned in a while, he may now be more sensitive to stuff in it.

The way I handle stomach upsets in the cats is to fast them for 24 hours, then mix a little fractionally distilled aloe vera juice (I use George's, it is distilled juice, not the leaf, so no latex in it) with shredded, poached chicken and the chicken water. If that stays down, I put them back on their regular food.

Then I'd put him back on the turkey and see how it goes.

I really hope this is the case - that he was on raw for 3 weeks that his stomach doesn't like the abrupt change to canned. I'm going to let him fast for a bit... maybe not 24 hours, I'm scared he might get that liver disease thing. I prepared the turkey one already, hopefully all goes well.

My roommate says he did smell something funky with the beef, like a "sour" smell that is often associated with spoiled food. I don't smell it myself, but roommate is sure. He also offered that it could be because the beef was a lot drier than turkey - the turkey one is slimy, while I noticed the beef leaks water/blood/whatever. The turkey one has a consistent texture, but in the beef ziploc bag you can see the ground meat part, submerged in liquid. 

It could be that too. He doesn't like dry.

I don't know. I'm going to give him turkey tomorrow evening and see what happens for a couple of days.

 

[carolina]

Out of my 4 cats, only one was able to handle beef, and that was with a slow transition.... Very slow.
Another 2 were able to handle a 50/50 mix with another white meat, and Lucky can't handle a bite.
It is risky for all of them though (of vomiting).... So I just gave up on it and won't feed it.
I would suggest going back to Turkey.
Also, I like introducing new meats slowly (think how you would introduce a new kibble and use the same method over several days) to prevent stomach upsets. Whenever I don't do that I get a ride wake up call.
Putting the chub in ***cold water will make it Defrost faster.
I Defrost Bruce's chubs, also 5lbs for a couple/few hours on cold water just enough to cut it into pieces.

 

[fhicat]

Okay, I lied. I gave him a dollop of turkey because he was being noisy. He ate it enthusiastically, with me occasionally slowing him down. Licked his bowl clean. No vomit so far. I think turkey/chicken is probably safest for him.

Gonna monitor him for a couple of days with the turkey.

 

[pinkman]

The way I handle stomach upsets in the cats is to fast them for 24 hours, then mix a little fractionally distilled aloe vera juice (I use George's, it is distilled juice, not the leaf, so no latex in it) with shredded, poached chicken and the chicken water. If that stays down, I put them back on their regular food.
 

I do the same, minus the distilled aloe vera juice. Out of my two cats, Bagel is the one who has a really "sensitive" stomach. He can not handle beef (canned or raw), but he can do lamb. Pork is another "hoof" meat that he can stomach. Other than that Bagel eats all poultry/fowl and rabbit. I find that Bagel is also extremely sensitive about canned food - anything with grain will give him the runs within 45 minutes. I sometimes wonder how, since before adopting him (the first nine weeks of his life) he was eating nothing but Wellness dry and donated canned food - meaning that he ate different brands constantly. Perhaps he is more sensitive to the ingredients in canned food now since adoption I've had him on 95% raw food.

I'd like to try the 50 beef/50 white meat/fowl mix sometime, but I may not do it just because when Bagel gets the runs... it usually means bottom-bath time.

Cory - is your cat on a probiotic by any chance?

 

[fhicat]

Cory - is your cat on a probiotic by any chance?

Nope, although I'm interested in learning what it is and what it's for. *pokes LDG*

 

[ldg]

Probiotics are healthy gut bacteria. The normal substrate for its growth is fiber - carbs. So a cat's natural diet doesn't typically provide a substrate for growth of healthy bacteria - but in the wild, cats get a "dose" or probiotics with every meal (they eat the stomach, guts, intestines, colon, etc. of prey - if it's a mouse. Larger prey they may leave the stomach behind).

The gut is the most important part of the immune system, being the front line of pathogens entering the body. In fact, it accounts for something like 60% of the immune system. And healthy gut bacteria has an important role in supporting immune system health. L. acidophilus, E. faecium, L. rhamnosus, Bifidobacterium - all of these have been shown to "crowd out" bacteria that make us (and our pets) sick, like harmful E. coli strains, clostridium, coccidia, etc. And clostridium and coccidia thrive in the absence of these healthy bacteria - which the diet we feed our cats, when we feed raw, does not naturally provide, but their natural diet would.

So I give my cats probiotics daily as part of trying to mimic their natural diet. We have very little knowledge of what strains of healthy bacteria are in their gut - studies do exist. But we do know that L. acidophilus benefits cats, that has been studied, as has E. faecium (which is what is in fortiflora). Fortiflora has all kinds of stuff that isn't healthy, and very little actual probiotic. In fact, it has no live cultures, being fermentation product. Most pet products (not all) are based on fermentation product, which has been shown to have benefit. But again, live cultures is what cats would be eating.

I use Natural Factors double-strength acidophilus+bifidus supplement, that has L. rhamnosus, bifidobacterium, and L. acidophilus. I give half the capsule in the morning, and 1/2 the capsule in the evening, because apparently body biorhythms have some impact on gut bacteria. This means I'm giving my cats 5 billion CFU twice a day.

I also give the cats S. boulardii, because it has been shown to actively crowd out clostridium and coccidia. It isn't a typical probiotic, in that it is actually a yeast. It is very similar to brewer's yeast, which is Saccharomyces cerevisiae (S. boulardii - the S. stands for Saccharomyces). So it doesn't colonize the gut, it has to be given 2x a day to keep it "refreshed." It can be given WITH antibiotics, in fact, whereas antibiotics wipe out ALL bacteria, so if a kitty is on antibiotics, the probiotics must be given at least a few hours before and after the antibiotic, and then it just wipes it out. I just give a small amount. The one I was using changed the formula, and I haven't tried the new one yet, so I don't know if it's palatable, so I don't have an S. boulardii recommendation right at the moment. But basically I split a 5 billion CFU capsule between 4 cats, 2x a day, which means each cat gets 2.5 billion CFU daily.

 

[fhicat]

Looks like Whole Foods across the street carries it. Are there any cautions I should exercise when feeding probiotics? Do I just mix it into his food?

 

[ldg]

Mix it in, sprinkle it on top, either way. I don't know of any cats yet that don't like it. At least the acidophilus probiotic. The S. boulardii I used for kittens with coccidia was very bitter, but had other stuff in it. The one I use now is palatable to them, but like I said, they changed their formula.

As with any new food or supplement, it's always a wise move to start small and slowly increase the amount, keep an eye on how kitty reacts to it. :nod:

 

[fhicat]

*sigh* I gave him some (okay, quite a bit of) cooked chicken as treats. He vomited them out.

Come to think of it, the canned food is chicken and chicken liver flavor. I really hope he isn't somehow allergic to chicken. He's been fine on chicken all these time. I don't want to have to feed him turkey his whole life.

 

[laurag]

My cats are not fans of beef. Chicken and turkey go best, but they are cats and sometimes snub that too. Cat logic.

That said, in 2007 I had a selection of Nutro cans that had historically been my cats' favorite. They suddenly would not it it. Then I got an e-mail from Petsmart saying that the batch I had was part of the 2007 melamine poisoning recall. Now I pay attention if cat suddenly refuses food--especially if all of them do.

Boo is the only one that likes the Stella and Chewy's freeze dried raw. Loved the duck duck goose (which has no chicken in it). I rotated this time with a bag of the chicken. I'm sure that with the 2nd bag of $22.00 food he won't like it. ha.

 

[fhicat]

That said, in 2007 I had a selection of Nutro cans that had historically been my cats' favorite. They suddenly would not it it. Then I got an e-mail from Petsmart saying that the batch I had was part of the 2007 melamine poisoning recall. Now I pay attention if cat suddenly refuses food--especially if all of them do.

Wow, talk about dodging the bullet. So glad they saved themselves!

Jed vomited his latest raw turkey. I'm going to bring him to the vet tomorrow. Gonna buy one of those ear mufflers so I don't hear him cry in the carrier and hate me for weeks after.

 

[goholistic]

 
Jed vomited his latest raw turkey. I'm going to bring him to the vet tomorrow.

Good call. Sounds like the poor guy isn't keeping anything down, so a trip to the vet is definitely in order. I hope it's nothing serious! 

Vibes for Jed! 

 

[ldg]

!!!! Let us know how it goes.

 

[fhicat]

>.<

Closes early today, and they're fully booked till Tuesday.

He looks fine otherwise, no vomit today. Ate his turkey just fine. Food temperature? Might be a coincidence, but the turkey he vomited out last night was at room temperature. He usually eats it cold, out the fridge. On the other hand, he has eaten room temperature food before. 

...actually the canned food would have been room temperature.

...and the cooked chicken was a little warm.

Oh dear.

Maybe it's just his tummy getting upset from warm food. Hey, Jed, you are CAT. You're supposed to like warm food.

Cat logic.

 

[fhicat]

Thought I'd drop an update.

Jed was so well behaved at the vet I almost want to hug and love on him. He didn't even struggle in the carrier; I just put him headfirst and he went all the way inside and sat down. He protested a little in the car, but I sang songs to him and he seemed okay with that. When I got to the vet, I realized I didn't even close his cage door properly, it was cracked open when I got there. Oops.

Dr. Eberly, the vet, feeds her cat raw too, so we had a nice conversation about raw feeding. She checked him and couldn't find anything wrong with him. He seems in excellent health and she loves how smooth and silky his coat is. I brought her fecal samples, and she did blood work, we'll know the results by tomorrow.

She was very happy to hear that I am giving him probiotics - she said that almost certainly would solve his tummy issues. She said right now I am doing everything right, and it should just be a matter of time before he stops vomiting. She suspects some form of mild allergy, but she won't know for sure until we have the test results back. Told me not to feed him canned anymore, since that was what triggered it - and to make a note of the protein I feed him and the number of hours when he vomits again.

So looks like he's fine.