Silver tabby domestics?

[sohni]

I'm curious how common a real silver and black tabby would be in the domestic population. I'm talking a white basecoat with tipped black tabby markings (striped, classic or tabby).

In my wanderings I had never seen a white silver tabby outside a show hall.

My friend adopted two kittens recently, and I had the chance to meet them. One is a white silver tabby and the other is a patched smoke tabby. I found the colouration to be quite striking to come from a random domestic breeding. They don't even know who the father cat is. The mother is a brown mackerel tabby.

I asked if I could post a picture, and I do have permission.

I did my best to let her know that they were taken home too early and that the mother cat owner should really get the cat fixed.

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• sohni
• Sep 5, 2012

 

[missymotus]

Haven't seen one myself outside the show hall either, very cute kittens. 

 

[northernglow]

We have silver moggies around here, they belong to the 'wild' domestic cat population. I've personally known few silver tabby moggies, and black smokes too. There are no tabby smokes, smokes are non-agoutis.

 

[sohni]

I must misunderstand what I breed then. My smokes have spotted tabby markings, the more contrast the better. I had thought they were smoke tabbys.

The kitten pictured has a white undercoat and mackeral tabby markings as well.

I admit I am confused about the difference between brown and silver tabby, sometimes. Our family had a long haired tabby with no brown on him, but the contrast colour wasn't a true silver either. It was slate grey, with black stripes. Was he still a brown tabby?

 

[orientalslave]

The following explains the Mau genetics, but in essence there are three colours:

1) Silver - a silver tabby

2) Bronze - a brown tabby

3) Smoke - a black smoke selected to have a lot of obvious ghost tabby markings which is the opposite to other smoke cats, which should at first glance look like a Self unless you get sight of the undercoat which is bone white.

Blacks occur as well but as far as I know are not shown, but can be used in breeding programs.

http://www.egyptianmaus.co.uk/Genetics.php

The kitten you are refering to might have been a blue tabby.  The base colour is often seen in the tip of the tail, and the pad colours usually give a clue unless the cat has white feet, when they are usually pink.  He might also have been a black (brown) tabby with just about no rufousing polygenes - the Bronze Mau has loads of those hence it's beautful warm tones, the silver should have none of almost none otherwise tarnishing occurs.

 

[sohni]

Yes, that makes sense now. Thanks

 

[northernglow]

I must misunderstand what I breed then. My smokes have spotted tabby markings, the more contrast the better. I had thought they were smoke tabbys.

The kitten pictured has a white undercoat and mackeral tabby markings as well.

I admit I am confused about the difference between brown and silver tabby, sometimes. Our family had a long haired tabby with no brown on him, but the contrast colour wasn't a true silver either. It was slate grey, with black stripes. Was he still a brown tabby?

Yes, apparently you have misunderstood what you breed (jk). Just like any other solid color, smoke can show ghost pattern. Smoke Maus are bred for having a strong contrast in the ghost patterns but they are not tabbies, they are smokes. Smoke is genetically non-agouti, you know, like solid black for example. It's the only non-agouti (genetically non-tabby, no pattern, solid) silver, the others are agoutis (genetically have a pattern, non-solid). Similar thing can be seen often in solid red cats, many of them show even quite strong ghost pattern.

Sounds like your family had a blue tabby..

 

[northernglow]

The following explains the Mau genetics, but in essence there are three colours:

---

Blacks occur as well but as far as I know are not shown, but can be used in breeding programs.

And they occur because of the non-agouti gene the smoke Maus are passing on. Yes, two silvers (tabbies or smokes) can have a non silver kitten, it's quite rare but happens. My oldest kitty is silver, his parents are both silver, and the litter mates were one silver, one golden, one brown tabby and one solid black. (Yes I have pics).

 

[sohni]

Thank you very much to OrientalSlave for explaining it to me without snarky comments.

I was under a misconception and can admit that I should have researched it further. From now on I will have a better understanding of what makes up a smoke. I was aware of the differences between bronzes and silvers.

 

[missymotus]

Yes, two silvers (tabbies or smokes) can have a non silver kitten, it's quite rare but happens

Not at all rare in my breed for 2 silvers to have non silver kittens, mixed colour litters are very common

 

[sohni]

My silver Tsekani was bred to my friend's silver Heart. She had four kittens; two silvers, a smoke and a bronze. Tsekani has bronze in his background, but all of my queens have only produced silvers or smokes. Tsekani's sire was an AOV black, and his mom was a silver.

For Maus, the people I work with never breed silvers to bronzes, only silvers to smokes. A do have a friend who is switching to bronzes and he is breeding his smoke in his early generations to expand his gene pool and to get some of the body characterics he admires in his smoke. Outside of my circle of mentors, Mau breeders mix silvers and smokes and I certainly see what OrientalSlave was mentioning in the tarnishing and cool bronzes that result.

I like the idea of Oly being a brown/black tabby with little rufousing. That makes sense to me. He was definitely not dilute.