Serious Birth Complications (TW Death)

[Sarthur2]

It sounds like it will be okay, but if you begin to hear a clicking noise when the kitten is breathing, or he appears to be struggling to breathe or eat or swallow, get him to a vet right away for antibiotics, as aspiration can cause pneumonia, which can kill a kitten very quickly.

 

[catmom102618]

Some updated photos of my floofs. Should they be graduating to a larger enclosure at 3 weeks (this weekend)? I’m seeing that is when they begin exploring more Something with room for toys, shallow litter, and saucers. The things they’ll need in these upcoming weeks.

They are both doing what I like to call “wobble-walking” around on all 4 legs now and staying up a few minutes after feeding, which I’m sure will continue to increase. They’re full and don’t cry or anything, just wander around in their box before settling in to sleep.

Mama cat is still doing great, her pre-op bloods are tomorrow for her spay. I’ve been allowing her some time with the babies here and there and she is no longer aggressive towards them, licks them. I let them get a good cleaning once a day haha and all three seem to enjoy. Their dad is terrified of them and runs when they mew . Just worried that her behaviour towards them may change after being spayed.

 

[Kflowers]

We noticed no difference in mom's attitude before and after spaying. In fact, it didn't change over their entire lives (12, 15, 16 years) and hers.

We did notice that kittens aren't jazzed about clay litter -- too hard on brand new paws, perhaps. Two weeks of really soft litter, we used wheat, and box was claimed and used. Habit never broken. Only time box wasn't used boy (age 10 or so) was trying say he was blocked.

 

[catmom102618]

We noticed no difference in mom's attitude before and after spaying. In fact, it didn't change over their entire lives (12, 15, 16 years) and hers.

We did notice that kittens aren't jazzed about clay litter -- too hard on brand new paws, perhaps. Two weeks of really soft litter, we used wheat, and box was claimed and used. Habit never broken. Only time box wasn't used boy (age 10 or so) was trying say he was blocked.

Good to know the reasoning behind not using clay litter, I was planning on using an alternative and then eventually switching to the bulk litter we use for our other cats but wasn’t sure if it was just uncomfortable or dangerous.

Thanks for the reassurance! I do remember my previous cat acting differently after he was neutered. But we had him done young so could have just had more to do with his age/growing up! This is my first female cat and I know spay is slightly more complicated.

He was more affectionate afterwards, but may have had to do with him being sick He sadly passed at only 3 years from cancer that went undetected at regular visits to vet, by the time we suspected anything he was in organ failure and didn’t make it through the night. Now I am so paranoid about my fur babies even though I know it was a freak event.

I just hope the vet is able to book it shortly after the bloods as her and the family cat miss eachother terribly and I’d like to reunite them ASAP once she’s healed

 

[Kflowers]

So sorry about your boy, but glad you could give him a life of love and joy while he was here.

When the little ones are getting used to the litter, watch them and be sure they don't eat it. Babies, apparently, all babies, want to taste test everything. What we did was get a shower mat and spread the wheat litter on it in the center. At six weeks, she was too short to climb in the litter box. She was happy to play in the litter pawing it and the like. We put one of her poops in the litter and she understood. We did take her to be sure she wasn't eating it. After a couple of weeks, her little feet were tougher and she moved to a litter box, then a little later to clumping litter.

If your kitties eat the litter you'll need to wait for them to out grown that stage before you let them around clumping litter. Clumping litter can do rather bad things inside a cat, things that require surgery.

 

[catmom102618]

So sorry about your boy, but glad you could give him a life of love and joy while he was here.

When the little ones are getting used to the litter, watch them and be sure they don't eat it. Babies, apparently, all babies, want to taste test everything. What we did was get a shower mat and spread the wheat litter on it in the center. At six weeks, she was too short to climb in the litter box. She was happy to play in the litter pawing it and the like. We put one of her poops in the litter and she understood. We did take her to be sure she wasn't eating it. After a couple of weeks, her little feet were tougher and she moved to a litter box, then a little later to clumping litter.

If your kitties eat the litter you'll need to wait for them to out grown that stage before you let them around clumping litter. Clumping litter can do rather bad things inside a cat, things that require surgery.

Great idea with the mat!! Would a pellet type litter be sufficient? Paper and pine are the only non clumping/clay options I’ve been able to find here. They’re not quite ready yet, but don’t want to be scrambling and googling in the store when they start on their own lol.

When when you start to mix some wet kitty food in their milk? Seeing varying info online about this, just unsure when since I’ve read 4-5 weeks is transition time so I’m assuming gruel should come before this to help their tummies adjust.

They’re also sleeping longer between feeds, should I still be waking them every 3hrs at night? They’re 2.5 weeks, taking 12ml a feed. Roughly 290g as of yesterday, gaining between 14g and 20g daily. The sleep deprivation has set in but if they still need every 3 hours at night I will continue!

 

[Kflowers]

Ours was an orphan, so she started wet food at six weeks. This was 11 years ago and we hadn't heard of anyone starting them earlier than that. Lots of people know more about this than I do and will tell you. (We fed all my kittens, even the ones with a mom, Breakfast, elevenses, lunch, tea, supper, late night dinner for their first year.)

The orphan decided that was it, no more milk and none in the wet. She is the reason I began looking up all the cat food, reviews and complaints and generally freaking out about the cat food. It's easiest to start them on wet since their very small, though incredibly sharp teeth need practice before the hard stuff. This is mostly for you since some cats swallow their kibble whole and you will have nightmares about the kittens choking to death even on the kitten chow size pieces.

I've never felt the pelt or the newspaper. All I know about the wood based litter is that they say keep it away from heat sources - furnaces, hot water pipes, heat vents (I'm not kidding that's what they said) as it's flammable. Scared me. see below

You can use newspaper folded on the mat. Yeah, you know the drill with newspaper. Shredded would be better for kittens, but again keep away from warm places, and they will probably try to eat it.

I looked into corn based litter, but found it was fairly hard to the touch, and that aflatoxins tend to grow in wet corn. Tossed it. Almost learned to look stuff up before I bought it, not quite. Which is how I ended up with the bamboo litter, which turned out to be more flammable than the wood. Tossed it. Maybe now I'll look stuff up before I buy it.

Note I make no recommendations here until I've researched and used something, or have a reason not to, which I mention.

Is Cat Litter Flammable? Yes And No! Does It Catch Fire? (fireproofdepot.com)

 

[catmom102618]

Ours was an orphan, so she started wet food at six weeks. This was 11 years ago and we hadn't heard of anyone starting them earlier than that. Lots of people know more about this than I do and will tell you. (We fed all my kittens, even the ones with a mom, Breakfast, elevenses, lunch, tea, supper, late night dinner for their first year.)

The orphan decided that was it, no more milk and none in the wet. She is the reason I began looking up all the cat food, reviews and complaints and generally freaking out about the cat food. It's easiest to start them on wet since their very small, though incredibly sharp teeth need practice before the hard stuff. This is mostly for you since some cats swallow their kibble whole and you will have nightmares about the kittens choking to death even on the kitten chow size pieces.

I've never felt the pelt or the newspaper. All I know about the wood based litter is that they say keep it away from heat sources - furnaces, hot water pipes, heat vents (I'm not kidding that's what they said) as it's flammable. Scared me. see below

You can use newspaper folded on the mat. Yeah, you know the drill with newspaper. Shredded would be better for kittens, but again keep away from warm places, and they will probably try to eat it.

I looked into corn based litter, but found it was fairly hard to the touch, and that aflatoxins tend to grow in wet corn. Tossed it. Almost learned to look stuff up before I bought it, not quite. Which is how I ended up with the bamboo litter, which turned out to be more flammable than the wood. Tossed it. Maybe now I'll look stuff up before I buy it.

Note I make no recommendations here until I've researched and used something, or have a reason not to, which I mention.

Is Cat Litter Flammable? Yes And No! Does It Catch Fire? (fireproofdepot.com)

Totally appreciate it!! Will check the link now, I live in a basement apartment and fire safety is super important to me. Great to hear all this litter info as it’s something I honestly never questioned before having these little guys, just kept my cats on whatever litter they were using before we got them. Food was a different story, and is my next google adventure lol. I believe they’re both boys and I know they need more moisture to prevent urinary issues so I’ll be doing a looot more research wet food.

I feel like a helicopter parent in a constant state of anxiety. They’ve been on bottle from birth so they’re quite used to it but they do get quite eager, so can’t imagine kibble lol that’s gonna be a wild time. Always worried. Is it too hot in there? Is it too cold? Does their poop look right? Did they just do a somersault? Do I have 6 alarms set for every night feed to make sure I wake up?

As the weeks go by I’m slowly feeling more confident. They need names! I’ve been afraid but they’ve been strong little guys from day one and I think it’s time. Thank you for all your help

 

[Sarthur2]

Since they are only 2 1/2 weeks old, feeding every 3 hours is still needed.

 

[StefanZ]

As the weeks go by I’m slowly feeling more confident. They need names! I’ve been afraid but they’ve been strong little guys from day one and I think it’s time. Thank you for all your help

The heroes and saints and martyrs of today are the ukrainians... Something from there?

What are the genders?

 

[catmom102618]

The heroes and saints and martyrs of today are the ukrainians... Something from there?

What are the genders?

The vet said he’s pretty sure both male
I love your idea! Very meaningful. My best friend is Ukrainian and I will have to ask her for suggestions as well. They were so tiny at birth, I was afraid to name them or get attached but they are my babies now, I have decided I will keep them They are both roughly 300 grammies tonight and doing very well! I think they will be quite large actually, their paws are huge and their dad is also a big boy.

I was worried about the expenses of keeping them, but my vet said he will do discounted neuter if I do both kitties the same day and can pay in instalments. He has done two checkups for them now without charging me! Such a kind man. I brought mama cat in and she was so well behaved I was amazed, got in the carrier by herself, didn’t even flinch for her needles. She needed vaccines and her spay blood tests. Tomorrow we get results and can book the surgery!

 

[Kflowers]

I had a huge post for you, but just lost it.

Summary - they reach a point where they need more than milk can give so solids. Most people make a slurry of milk and kitten food pate. That teaches them how to eat it. It's messy, put papers or towels down.

Buy carriers for all your cats. Try to train them to ride in them two to a carrier, if you're strong enough to pick that up. Use twisty ties to re-enforce the connection between the top of the carrier and the bottom, carriers are bad about breaking apart cat escapes and gets run over in the street by the vet. The more cats in the fewer carriers the better your chances are of taking some clothes with you if you and the cats have to run. (I understand how you think. It doesn't get any better, but you get used to it.)

If my previous post turns up, I'll add it.

 

[Kflowers]

Your specific question. Do I need to set alarms for feeding? Both our orphans were sleeping 8 hours at night by six weeks, I was lucky. The meals I mentioned were during the day. If you're working, dry kitten kibble left out at all times. You should watch them the first couple of times. You could set an alarm to feed them wet food half way through the night the first week. That would be very kind of you. Yes, you can for during the day, however, the kittens are out and about and will tell you when they are hungry. Ours, orphan and with a mom, climbed us to let us know. You might want to wear blue jeans during the weeks they are still light enough to climb up your legs. A full length blue jean skirt, also works.

 

[StefanZ]

The vet said he’s pretty sure both male
I love your idea! Very meaningful. My best friend is Ukrainian and I will have to ask her for suggestions as well. They were so tiny at birth, I was afraid to name them or get attached but they are my babies now, I have decided I will keep them They are both roughly 300 grammies tonight and doing very well! I think they will be quite large actually, their paws are huge and their dad is also a big boy.

I was worried about the expenses of keeping them, but my vet said he will do discounted neuter if I do both kitties the same day and can pay in instalments. He has done two checkups for them now without charging me! Such a kind man. I brought mama cat in and she was so well behaved I was amazed, got in the carrier by herself, didn’t even flinch for her needles. She needed vaccines and her spay blood tests. Tomorrow we get results and can book the surgery!

The easiest, if you dont have recognized persons worthy remembering, is to just give them ukrainian names...
Essentially common names but written in typical ukrainian way.... Whichever you pick, there will be a number of heroes, martyrs and even saints behind it... Some fully alive.

For example, Dimitri they write Dmytro. Sergej - Serhii...

Excellent and nice vet... This vet is worth encouragement... At least the classical home made cake now and then... He can eat it up himself with his family, or have as a free be to his customers...

If he or his family plays bridge, you have my permission to offer my service as bridge partner and mentor.

 

[Sarthur2]

K Kflowers Her kittens at present are only 2 1/2 weeks old. Good advice when they are old enough for slurry!

 

[Kflowers]

Yes, I don't think I've seen anyone starting on slurry before 4 weeks. If it sounded I meant that, I do apologize.

 

[catmom102618]

K Kflowers Her kittens at present are only 2 1/2 weeks old. Good advice when they are old enough for slurry!

They are 3 weeks tomorrow now, the days are a blur lol! Thank you for pointing this out, I was looking for when that should start so this is great. Will definitely wait until they’re 4 weeks and/or have more teeth. Their little front teeth are cutting, one nipped my finger today and surprised me!

I’ve ordered a larger enclosure for them so they will be moving out of their box shortly. I will keep it inside the pen and allow them to explore at their own pace, I don’t want to startle them. I have a few large heat pads that should be enough to cover atleast half of their new space!

I’ve still been feeding with miracle nipples but they seem to be taking in a lot of air the past day or so, so I think the flow may be too slow and I will try the standard nipples. Poops have been relatively normal! Still very soft but not liquid and not constipated. Was worried it wasn’t quite formed but the vet said it is fine, and no reason to deworm them early.

Developmentally; they are much more social so I added a few little kitten safe toys to my cart to see if they have any interest. They’ve been batting eachothers faces and play fighting before getting snuggled with their stuffed “mom”, awake for much longer after feeds. So glad that they are doing well.

 

[catmom102618]

The easiest, if you dont have recognized persons worthy remembering, is to just give them ukrainian names...
Essentially common names but written in typical ukrainian way.... Whichever you pick, there will be a number of heroes, martyrs and even saints behind it... Some fully alive.

For example, Dimitri they write Dmytro. Sergej - Serhii...

Excellent and nice vet... This vet is worth encouragement... At least the classical home made cake now and then... He can eat it up himself with his family, or have as a free be to his customers...

If he or his family plays bridge, you have my permission to offer my service as bridge partner and mentor.

Haha!! The vet and his techs will definitely be getting a little something extra from me and my family. Will update when I’ve settled on names! This is almost more difficult than naming my daughter. Good thing is she is 4 and I still had a lot of her baby blankets that could be repurposed and become kitty blankets. She feels very proud that she’s been able to “donate” things for them. Even gave up one of her stuffed kitties for them to snuggle. The experience has helped her to grow as well.

 

[catmom102618]

Your specific question. Do I need to set alarms for feeding? Both our orphans were sleeping 8 hours at night by six weeks, I was lucky. The meals I mentioned were during the day. If you're working, dry kitten kibble left out at all times. You should watch them the first couple of times. You could set an alarm to feed them wet food half way through the night the first week. That would be very kind of you. Yes, you can for during the day, however, the kittens are out and about and will tell you when they are hungry. Ours, orphan and with a mom, climbed us to let us know. You might want to wear blue jeans during the weeks they are still light enough to climb up your legs. A full length blue jean skirt, also works.

This and your other comments were lovely. Very informative.

Luckily I have a few carriers now from our current pets and those passed on. I will take your advice though on keeping them secure!! My favourite actually has screws keeping the top and bottom together along with the clasps. Was actually a pain to open and clean after mama cat gave birth in it on the way to the ER. A puddle of fluids soaked through the blankets

They do like to climb me I've noticed! Usually I am in sweatpants as I like to prop them up as they feed and they now have a ton of tiny pinholes from their little claws haha. My kitty pants. It is getting very hot here though, sweats will not do for long. Very grateful for all your tips and tricks. Will definitely refer back come time to wean

 

[catmom102618]

Another weekly update and question! Lol. They are 3w 5d now.

I’ve noticed there’s a pretty foul odour when stimulating one of the kittens the past few days. Smells skunky? Not fishy at all. Honestly can’t tell if it’s urine or poop or passing gas. I don’t think there’s any infection, theyre doing perfect, nearing 450g and gaining 18+ grammies daily. One gained 28g the other day! Energetic, no crying between feeds drinking about 17ml each.

Is it normal for urine smell to change as they age? It’s not fishy at all but almost skunky. They are both peeing much larger amounts now obviously, not sure if this or change to digestive system could be causing it. Not pooping on their own so I haven’t introduced litter yet.