Semi-feral: Bring Them Inside Or Not?

[Avery]

Thanks, kittyluv387 for that info! We have a specialty pet store that I think carries these brands. The one I tried as an experiment was Instinct, which I had read good things about. My sister is in favor of grain-free food for cats and I am just starting to look into that. Even if Ruby doesn't need limited ingredient food (which is generally grain-free it seems) for an allergy, maybe it is a better food for cats in general? I guess I should be investigating the Nutrition Forum!!

 

[kittyluv387]

Instinct Limited Ingredient used to be decent because they had whole peas that you can take out. But they started adding pea protein to all their formulas so I stopped giving them my money. Their product is not cheap so it’s inexcusable to cheapen the ingredients in my opinion. Grain free is good but overall you want low carb. A grain free food can still add a lot of carb! But yes limited ingredient foods are better overall for all kitties.

Also, a quail flavor that I feed that my guys like.
https://www.chewy.com/evangers-super-premium-quail-dinner/dp/137064

This database is labeled for kidney health but has a lot of useful info. Like carb, protein and fat content.
Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease- Canned Food Data USA

 

[rubysmama]

It is certainly more expensive, but I'm wondering if it would be easier in the long run for everyone to be eating the same thing.

My Ruby has a sensitive digestive system (pretty sure she's allergic to chicken) and so the vet suggested a hypoallergenic canned food. It's more expensive than grocery store brands like Fancy Feast, but comparably priced to the higher end ones at the pet stores.

The one I tried with Ruby and Lucky was rabbit, which I had read is a good choice since it is something they have never had before. It does make me feel sad since I love bunnies, but my sister reminded me that both Ruby and Lucky killed bunnies outside!

I understand your sadness about feeding them rabbit food. My Ruby's hypoallergenic food is duck, which really bothered me at first. But I guess really any cat food is going to contain a dead animal. In fact, as a vegetarian, needing to buy and feed a cat meat was one of the reasons it took me so long to adopt a cat.

I guess I should be investigating the Nutrition Forum!!

Here's a few TCS articles that might also be helpful:
What Do I Need To Know About Feeding My Cat?
How To Choose The Right Food For Your Cat
Choosing The Right Food For Your Cat - Part 2

 

[Avery]

I just got to work and I'm checking TCS while I have some coffee! rubysmama - thanks so much for those links. I will read them later today. I also am a vegetarian and wish we could feed our cats veggies only, but I know we can't so I have gotten used to the "usual" meats for them, like chicken and beef. My sister said that some pet food (maybe for dogs?) has kangaroo meat! Yikes, that sounds just awful.

Anyway, a quick update. This morning, as I started to get food out for the cats' breakfast, guess who showed up downstairs in the kitchen? RUBY!! She may go downstairs during the night or when I am not home, but I have never seen her other than at the bottom of the stairs! She wandered around, rubbed against Lucky, and finally went back upstairs when I was ready to feed her and Lucky. I can see that eventually I will probably feed all four of them in the kitchen! When I finished my shower and was ready for work, I realized she wasn't anywhere upstairs. I tiptoed down and she was in the back hall which leads into the basement! I don't know if she actually went into the basement, but she certainly is starting to feel more comfortable on the first floor! I can't wait to see where she is when I get home from work!

 

[rubysmama]

That is a great update! Ruby is getting so brave! She's gonna be snuggling on that couch with you and the other 3 in no time.

Cool to see another vegetarian here on the site. There's quite a few of us, actually.

And, yes, there's a lot of novel protein cat foods out there. But there's also a lot of cats with food sensitivities, my Ruby included, so I guess we should be glad they exist.

 

[kittyluv387]

They have so many kangaroos in Australia. Sometimes they need to cull them to not get overrun. So it's a good thing they get made into pet food I suppose.

 

[Avery]

Yes, I guess kind of like deer in some parts of the U.S. Still... kangaroos??!!! I think they are the national animal of Australia!! And they are so cute. But I think all animals, especially mammals, are cute so there you have it!

 

[KrisinOhio]

Great news Avery! I am so happy for you and your crew! They have a great life and they know it. (And BTW i'm a vegan so feeding meat is icky for me too!)

 

[kittyluv387]

I'm not vegetarian but I do find animals cute! Even animals I regularly eat like cows and chicken. I feel bad but I really love food. Nature is cruel.

 

[Avery]

Quick (ha!) update and a question.

Ruby continues to be brave, coming downstairs and wandering around more and more. She is on her fifth day of Zyrtec (sardines work, but I have to keep refreshing the bowl!) and I THINK it is cutting down on her leg licking. As best I can tell, her leg looks less sore/red, but it is hard to get a really good look. This morning (Saturday), I put the Bravecto on her (flea medicine that apparently is used off-label for mites) but I'm not 100% sure it all went on before she ran away. I waited a little and tried to squeeze the rest on her. The tube was empty after that, so I hope at least most of it went on and didn't just evaporate. The dose is for cats from 6.2 to 13.8 pounds and Ruby is about 9 pounds so maybe not getting 100% is OK. I will put Bravecto on the other cats, too, but I'm going to wait until Monday to be sure Ruby is OK and then do it when the vet is available in case there are problems.

My question is about catios. I have planned all along to have one built and even have a guy who would do it. It would be about 10' x 12' set on my patio and cats would get to it from a dining room window. I originally thought that it would be needed to provide more room for all the cats and to give them a safe, fun outside experience. Now that things are going so well inside the house (including 100% litter box use!!), I wonder if there are some negative things about having a catio to consider. I would have to continue with flea and possibly de-worming medicine, which is not a huge deal, but would Ruby and Lucky get agitated by being in their old space (their shelter and feeding station were on the patio) and want to get out of the catio all the time? I do plan to almost always be with them in the catio and so I could keep an eye on things (like neighborhood cats that might show up), but would I be making their life more stressful by giving them this option? I have many nice big windows with window ledges and cat trees so they can sniff outside on nice days. Sometimes I think I'm asking for trouble by having a catio.

Should I open up a new thread to ask these pro-and-con questions? I know there are many people interested in catios -- I have read everything I could find on TCS so far! Any thoughts about this?

 

[Dave Brownlee]

Funny story..I had a semi-feral yellow and white striped cat with big ears that hung around my patio. I gave it some "bites" but it seemed to come and go as it wished. Once I left the sliding glass door open and tempted it in with a few kibbles. It came up on my lap and ate a bit or two and seemed very settled so I figured it was a previous housecat that had been abandonned. I figured I would go to the local store and get a litter box and some litter and this could be my "inside-outside" pet.

Once it got off my lap and started sniffing around I shut the sliding glass door. The response was amazing. It jumped over my couch and slammed into the glass of my door - then it ran into my second bedroom which I use for storage. There was no way I was going to catch it back at that time so I just quit and left the glass door open when I went to bed. It was gone the next day and never came back. I saw it around the neighborhood a few times after that.

I guess it just "moved on".

 

[Dave Brownlee]

Quick (ha!) update and a question.
My question is about catios. I have planned all along to have one built and even have a guy who would do it. It would be about 10' x 12' set on my patio and cats would get to it from a dining room window. I originally thought that it would be needed to provide more room for all the cats and to give them a safe, fun outside experience. Any thoughts about this?

Interestingly - I bought a computer setup via the internet a few years ago and it came in a really solid cardboard box (two-ply) and I made it into a "cathouse" for my patio. I put a small pet bed from Biglots on the deck and made a kind of pointy roof with a carpet cutter thingy and some duck tape and I spreayed the outside with Thompson's Water Seal. It lasted for three years. I cut multiple entrances/exits so the cats would be comfortable with thier excape routes.

I remeber a few times (when it was cold outside) that there would be 6 or 10 kitties all piled up on top of each other - snoozing away.

 

[shadowsrescue]

When I moved last year and brought my 3 feral boys inside, our plan all along was to build a catio. I even made sure when we were picking a new house that there was a space for one. We have two possible locations to build one. Yet after living her for one year and the feral cats have adjusted to inside living, I decided not to build one. I worry that allowing them time outside again will make them wish for the outside life again. I do not want to deal with them trying to get out other doors or worrying if they would some how escape. For now there will be no catio.

I have a good friend who had 4 cats that were allowed to be outside during the day. Two of the wandered the neighborhood while the other 2 mainly stayed on her deck. After a tragic accident where her dog was killed by a speeding car, she decided her cats could no longer free roam. She had a catio built and all 4 had access to it from her kitchen window. At first they went out and seemed ok with it, but over time all of them stopped going out. They had adjusted to inside living and wanted nothing to do with the outside. She is happy, but disappointed she spent the money to have one built.

I think it all just depends on the temperment of the cats. Do you think they would get great enjoyment out of it? Do you think they would want to spend more and more time in it and not want to be inside? Do you think they would try to find a way to escape? Do you think it would make them want to try to escape through other doors/windows in your house?

Just some thoughts to consider. I know lots and lots of cats just love catios and all they have to offer. I truly thought it would be one of the first things we did in our new home. Yet now......

Let us know what you decide.

 

[rubysmama]

I tend to wonder if it would just make them, especially Ruby, long to be back outside. My Ruby, was a stray before she ended up at the shelter I adopted her from, and she NEVER shows any interest in going outside. She will gaze out the window, of course.

Should I open up a new thread to ask these pro-and-con questions? I know there are many people interested in catios -- I have read everything I could find on TCS so far! Any thoughts about this?

Interestingly, here's a new thread from earlier today.
Cat Enclosures?

You could start your own, too, of course, since everyone's situation is different.

 

[Avery]

shadowsrescue and rubysmama - as usual, some great ideas and lots of food for thought! Thank you very much. The more I think about it, the less I am inclined to add the catio, at least in the near future. Right now, I feel like I have my hands full just getting the new cats, especially Ruby, integrated into the house and getting along with Palmer and Rosie. A catio would add another element to deal with and it could bring out some discontent or some unwanted behaviors. I will keep an eye on that new thread and maybe add to that.

 

[rubysmama]

A catio would add another element to deal with and it could bring out some discontent or some unwanted behaviors.

Being a smaller, and enclosed area, someone might become territorial/aggressive. Especially if another cat happened to come into the yard.
So you're probably wise to give it lots of thought.

 

[Avery]

Lucky had his eye appointment yesterday. The diagnosis for his left eye is "phthisis bulbi" which means that his eye is shrunken, most likely due to an injury or possibly an infection, and he has no vision in that eye, which I suspected. His third eyelid is up all of the time, covering most of that eye, because there is no full globe to hold the third eyelid down. He isn't in pain and there is nothing to be done for it.

The vet also did a test for his right eye and there is a little problem there. His right eye doesn't blink or blink enough. She said this is due to a facial nerve deficiency, likely caused by ear problems in the past. She said he is moving his third eyelid up more often as an alternative way to blink, and I can help when he is laying next to me by gently rubbing the skin around his eye to help keep it moist. She said that he looks really good and that most stray cats have many more eye problems.

I left feeling pretty happy until I got home and started Googling around! I found a few articles that said because "phthisis bulbi" is painless and comfortable for most cats, it is kind of ignored and then a quick-spreading cancer can start that isn't caught in time. And these articles said it is smart to remove the eye sooner rather than later! So of course, I'm freaking out and getting angry that the vet never said a word about this. I called back and got some reassuring news that the cancer is rare and I should just monitor his eye and let them know if anything changes. He can live a full, regular life. So even though they said I don't need to bring him back, I already made an appointment for next year so they can check him out again. And I'm going to be watching him much more closely. I'm going to try to take a few pictures of his eye so I can notice any changes over time.

Lucky was such a good boy in the carrier on the way to and from the appointment and he was a very good patient. The vet tech thought he was very handsome. Do they say that to all their male cats??!!

 

[kittyluv387]

Lucky had his eye appointment yesterday. The diagnosis for his left eye is "phthisis bulbi" which means that his eye is shrunken, most likely due to an injury or possibly an infection, and he has no vision in that eye, which I suspected. His third eyelid is up all of the time, covering most of that eye, because there is no full globe to hold the third eyelid down. He isn't in pain and there is nothing to be done for it.

The vet also did a test for his right eye and there is a little problem there. His right eye doesn't blink or blink enough. She said this is due to a facial nerve deficiency, likely caused by ear problems in the past. She said he is moving his third eyelid up more often as an alternative way to blink, and I can help when he is laying next to me by gently rubbing the skin around his eye to help keep it moist. She said that he looks really good and that most stray cats have many more eye problems.

I left feeling pretty happy until I got home and started Googling around! I found a few articles that said because "phthisis bulbi" is painless and comfortable for most cats, it is kind of ignored and then a quick-spreading cancer can start that isn't caught in time. And these articles said it is smart to remove the eye sooner rather than later! So of course, I'm freaking out and getting angry that the vet never said a word about this. I called back and got some reassuring news that the cancer is rare and I should just monitor his eye and let them know if anything changes. He can live a full, regular life. So even though they said I don't need to bring him back, I already made an appointment for next year so they can check him out again. And I'm going to be watching him much more closely. I'm going to try to take a few pictures of his eye so I can notice any changes over time.

Lucky was such a good boy in the carrier on the way to and from the appointment and he was a very good patient. The vet tech thought he was very handsome. Do they say that to all their male cats??!!

Sounds like Lucky is going to be okay! Btw one of my cats has very slight eyelid agenisis and I try to keep that eyeball moist as recommended by the opthamologist. You can put this on his eye 1-3x a day to keep it lubricated.

https://www.chewy.com/optixcare-dog...0-B5b5HR2-dx6KnooyacVM_xL4voTze8aAqwZEALw_wcB

 

[Avery]

Oh, good to know about that product. Thanks for letting me know. It calls it a gel, but it sounds like it is really a liquid, yes? I would think that drops would be easier to administer.

 

[kittyluv387]

It's a watery gel. Pretty easy to administer I'd say.