Sam Can't Walk

[1 bruce 1]

It sounds as if your kitty's foster mom was a real godsend and a HERO. I am so happy your baby is ok now.
I know vets are not gods, but we rely on them to be knowledgeable, informed, and caring about the health and quality of life of our pets. Quite often I have seen a pained expression on the face of a vet when I question something they have told me because I read something different on the internet. I know where they are coming from, after all THEY are the ones with many years of medical training. But sometimes mistakes are made and a "bad call" by a vet can be a devastating loss to a pet parent. Our recent loss of Isabelle is an example of that.
I am always on the lookout for a new vet. One that is closer than an hour drive, one that isn't booked up two weeks in advance. Unfortunately my list of vets that I WILL NEVER GO TO AGAIN just gets longer. Perhaps it is because of the rural area I live in. Most vets seem to dismiss my concerns, don't want to hear my observations about how the cat is acting, and rush us out the door so they can get to the next patient. (Sort of like human doctors these days.)
Terribly sorry for this long rant. Things have been very difficult for our family lately. I just want everyone to be healthy and happy and there is nothing I can do to help. So much illness for humans and cats alike, Isabelle is gone, and I am useless. I can't fix it.

(HUGS!) I get that.
I've fired many, MANY vets in my day. And my day is many decades long. Most of my concerns were lack of empathy or treating me as though I was a moron. I get they went to vet school and I didn't, but I know when my cat (or dog) isn't acting right. What "isn't right" to them may be "right" for others, but if I know somethings wrong, I want to know I'm heard and they understand this. Just be nice to me, listen to my 3 minutes list long of complaints from the pets POV and realize that, on paper they may be "fine" but something is very wrong!
It's controversial, but I've used chiropractic and acupuncture for pets (dogs AND cats) that showed no "clinical" signs of anything being wrong with really, really good results. One of our dogs developed a pain in his back and would scream in pain if he tried to shake off (like a dog shakes when wet.) It took a few appointments, but these things got him back to better than normal. This dog also had luxating patellas (a 2 and 3, later a 3 and 4!) and this helped as well as a few diet adjustments and a few supplements. The chiropractic/acupuncture might something you'd want to consider for Sam?
2018 is not shaping up to be the promise of a great year here, either, and like you I *JUST* want my pets to be happy, healthy, and enjoy their lives. It shouldn't be so much to ask =(
You're not useless, btw. Sam is lucky to have you, given the amount of people who let sick or injured cats go with the mantra from the 1920's..."if they live, they live, if not, oh well." Sam's a lucky guy.

 

[foxden]

Use of aspirin or most other NSAIDS in cats is typically contraindicated because cats are unable to metabolize it.
I gave a cat 1/4 or 1/2 of a baby aspirin about 20 years ago. No vet since then has recommended using aspirin on my cats.
I'm not aware if aspirin has any effect on a cat's GI tract.

 

[1 bruce 1]

Use of aspirin or most other NSAIDS in cats is typically contraindicated because cats are unable to metabolize it.
I gave a cat 1/4 or 1/2 of a baby aspirin about 20 years ago. No vet since then has recommended using aspirin on my cats.

I haven't simply because dog safe doesn't = cat safe and even if a low dose is OK for cats, a long term low-dose isn't always. =/

 

[dustydiamond1]

It sounds as if your kitty's foster mom was a real godsend and a HERO. I am so happy your baby is ok now.
I know vets are not gods, but we rely on them to be knowledgeable, informed, and caring about the health and quality of life of our pets. Quite often I have seen a pained expression on the face of a vet when I question something they have told me because I read something different on the internet. I know where they are coming from, after all THEY are the ones with many years of medical training. But sometimes mistakes are made and a "bad call" by a vet can be a devastating loss to a pet parent. Our recent loss of Isabelle is an example of that.
I am always on the lookout for a new vet. One that is closer than an hour drive, one that isn't booked up two weeks in advance. Unfortunately my list of vets that I WILL NEVER GO TO AGAIN just gets longer. Perhaps it is because of the rural area I live in. Most vets seem to dismiss my concerns, don't want to hear my observations about how the cat is acting, and rush us out the door so they can get to the next patient. (Sort of like human doctors these days.)
Terribly sorry for this long rant. Things have been very difficult for our family lately. I just want everyone to be healthy and happy and there is nothing I can do to help. So much illness for humans and cats alike, Isabelle is gone, and I am useless. I can't fix it.

 

[dustydiamond1]

It sounds as if your kitty's foster mom was a real godsend and a HERO. I am so happy your baby is ok now.
I know vets are not gods, but we rely on them to be knowledgeable, informed, and caring about the health and quality of life of our pets. Quite often I have seen a pained expression on the face of a vet when I question something they have told me because I read something different on the internet. I know where they are coming from, after all THEY are the ones with many years of medical training. But sometimes mistakes are made and a "bad call" by a vet can be a devastating loss to a pet parent. Our recent loss of Isabelle is an example of that.
I am always on the lookout for a new vet. One that is closer than an hour drive, one that isn't booked up two weeks in advance. Unfortunately my list of vets that I WILL NEVER GO TO AGAIN just gets longer. Perhaps it is because of the rural area I live in. Most vets seem to dismiss my concerns, don't want to hear my observations about how the cat is acting, and rush us out the door so they can get to the next patient. (Sort of like human doctors these days.)
Terribly sorry for this long rant. Things have been very difficult for our family lately. I just want everyone to be healthy and happy and there is nothing I can do to help. So much illness for humans and cats alike, Isabelle is gone, and I am useless. I can't fix it.

I had a long discussion with the ortho about pain meds. We ultimately decided to keep Sam on Buprinex for awhile. If needed he would like to transition him to Metacam next week. I am not completely comfortable with that, but the ortho vet says it is safe. I will wait and see how Sam is doing at that point. Hopefully he won't even need pain meds by then?

Here is the thing that is REALLY making me angry. Sam had one dose of Metacam as per ER vet before regular vet switched him to Buprinex, then another vet wanted me to switch him to Gabapentin and 1 whole baby aspirin. I never gave him the Gabapentin, but did give him 1/2 of the baby aspirin once.( I just didn't think it was safe, so decided not to do it again.)
The ortho vet was VERY CONCERNED about this. He explained that there needs to be a "flush out" period between metacam and aspirin. That without the waiting period a cat can develop a perforated ulcer and DIE very quickly. He said he would never give a cat those two meds within 8 days of one another. (Preferably longer, he's not a fan of aspirin). The vet that told me to give the aspirin had looked over his chart and knew he had been given metacam!
After a quick google search I found the info about the "flush out" period. Why didn't that vet know about it? I'm angry that following a vet's directions could have put Sam in severe danger.

Did you give that vet an earful??

 

[weebeasties]

On aspirin for cats. I assume the 81mg baby aspirin? How about coated? In humans, that delays the pill dissolving until reaching the small intestine and avoid upset stomach and/or damage. Is that t he same for cats?

I don't think the coating on the aspirin makes much difference. Apparently the cats metabolize the medications very slowly. It stays in the blood stream for quite a while and can cause severe liver and kidney issues.

 

[dustydiamond1]

How is everybody doing?

 

[weebeasties]

Well, I guess Sam is officially a "junkie". Whenever we want him to walk, all we have to do is shake the container his pain meds are in and he will trot over and start meowing.
Unfortunately, after seeing steady improvement last week, the past two days he seems to have stalled. No worse, but no better. He doesn't even try to jump up on furniture or climb steps anymore. He walks very gingerly, but he only falls down a few times a day. Last week he was falling/legs collapsing every 10 minutes.

 

[tabbytom]

Come on Sam, you can make it! Go Sam go!

 

[dustydiamond1]

Well, I guess Sam is officially a "junkie". Whenever we want him to walk, all we have to do is shake the container his pain meds are in and he will trot over and start meowing.
Unfortunately, after seeing steady improvement last week, the past two days he seems to have stalled. No worse, but no better. He doesn't even try to jump up on furniture or climb steps anymore. He walks very gingerly, but he only falls down a few times a day. Last week he was falling/legs collapsing every 10 minutes.

Sad news he has stalled, glad news he isn't backsliding. How is your dad doing and how is your partner doing?

 

[weebeasties]

(HUGS!)
It's controversial, but I've used chiropractic and acupuncture for pets (dogs AND cats) that showed no "clinical" signs of anything being wrong with really, really good results. One of our dogs developed a pain in his back and would scream in pain if he tried to shake off (like a dog shakes when wet.) It took a few appointments, but these things got him back to better than normal. This dog also had luxating patellas (a 2 and 3, later a 3 and 4!) and this helped as well as a few diet adjustments and a few supplements. The chiropractic/acupuncture might something you'd want to consider

I haven't found a cat chiropractor, but I did find a cat acupuncturist. My partner is against it, however. She thinks that any benefit from it in humans is a placebo effect. To an animal, it would just be getting stabbed with needles and more pain. I don't know. Before all this happened I might have agreed with her, but right now I am desperate for ANYTHING to get him better.
Yesterday Sam had 3 really bad episodes where he moved the wrong way and it hurt so much that he was hissing and growling. These episodes only last a minute or less, but afterward he falls down and won't move for a long time.
I know at his next appointment the ortho is going to want to switch him to Metacam and that really scares me. Of course I want him out of pain, but I am so worried about the health risks of Metacam.

 

[weebeasties]

dustydiamond1
You are so sweet to think about my family. It touched my heart.
Dad had a rough week with the paramedics rushing him to the hospital twice. Once because his blood sugar had dropped to 32. He doesn't want to eat.

We are STILL waiting for the oncologist to set up the CT scan for my partner. I will be calling them again on Monday in the hopes that they will get it scheduled. Don't know why it is taking so long.
Thank you so much for thinking about us. Your kindness really means the world to me.

 

[NewYork1303]

I haven't found a cat chiropractor, but I did find a cat acupuncturist. My partner is against it, however. She thinks that any benefit from it in humans is a placebo effect. To an animal, it would just be getting stabbed with needles and more pain. I don't know. Before all this happened I might have agreed with her, but right now I am desperate for ANYTHING to get him better.
Yesterday Sam had 3 really bad episodes where he moved the wrong way and it hurt so much that he was hissing and growling. These episodes only last a minute or less, but afterward he falls down and won't move for a long time.
I know at his next appointment the ortho is going to want to switch him to Metacam and that really scares me. Of course I want him out of pain, but I am so worried about the health risks of Metacam.

Acupuncture needles don't usually hurt. They are very very small.

 

[artiemom]

weebeasties Just know that I am following your threads; sending you love and ((hugs))

 

[PushPurrCatPaws]

'Morning, weebeasties - How is Sam doing today?
If the ortho vet thought it might be a soft tissue injury, what was suggested regarding rest/ non-activity/ 'cage rest', in order to give the injury time to heal?? The cat will usually self-limit its own activity if the injury/ pain is really felt. When my cat was going through her recovery (post-surgeries), we had to enforce non- or low- activity and also 6-8 weeks of strict cage rest. Gentle walking was okay, but no jumping up onto anything (no matter the height), and no running or trotting whatsoever. I guess I'd be surprised if the ortho vet didn't suggest something even a little bit similar? Any kind of stressful movements can retear the injured soft tissues. (I'm just sharing my experiences.)

 

[1 bruce 1]

I haven't found a cat chiropractor, but I did find a cat acupuncturist. My partner is against it, however. She thinks that any benefit from it in humans is a placebo effect. To an animal, it would just be getting stabbed with needles and more pain. I don't know. Before all this happened I might have agreed with her, but right now I am desperate for ANYTHING to get him better.
Yesterday Sam had 3 really bad episodes where he moved the wrong way and it hurt so much that he was hissing and growling. These episodes only last a minute or less, but afterward he falls down and won't move for a long time.
I know at his next appointment the ortho is going to want to switch him to Metacam and that really scares me. Of course I want him out of pain, but I am so worried about the health risks of Metacam.

The needles are super tiny. One of my dogs has NO pain tolerance whatsoever but his skin barely twitched when the needles were inserted, they don't get "stabbed" so perhaps her knowledge is limited. JMO =)
The possible placebo is interesting because people can think like that, but cats and dogs cannot.

 

[weebeasties]

PushPurrCatPaws
That's VERY interesting about limiting Sam's movement. I guess he is self-limiting right now. He isn't jumping or climbing and walks very slowly and carefully. But NONE of the vets he has seen said anything about crate rest. Actually vet #2 said to keep him active so the muscles don't atrophy and when I mentioned this to the ortho he didn't contradict that.
I'm beginning to question some of the things the ortho told me. For example:

He said that Sam's luxating patella is grade 2 and WOULD NOT GET ANY WORSE, yet from reading online (and your description of Milly's condition) it seems that it CAN get worse (grade 3, 4) over time. The only thing the ortho said was that arthritis could be a problem years down the line.

Second, he described Sam's kneecap as "going out" but immediately popping back in place. In my reading that indicates grade 1, but the ortho said he was grade 2.

Lastly, I didn't have the correct terminology, but I specifically asked if there was a tendon or muscle that sort of helped hold the kneecap in place that could be injured. He emphatically said No.
I've been doing some research and came across torn/ruptured cruciate ligament. Cats with luxating patella are more prone to this type of injury and the symptoms described sound quite a bit like Sam.

And you are saying that limiting his movement would be the normal course of action for a soft tissue injury that the ortho believes he has, and yet he didn't recommend this....

So now I am questioning (again) if this is the best vet for Sam. I am just so confused. I KNOW that my google searches are NOTHING compared to his medical knowledge and experience, but I still find myself questioning things he said.
Money is starting to become an issue as well. In three weeks I have spent a little over $2000 in vet bills. I think the ortho said an MRI will be an additional $1800. Then if he needs surgery...
Don't get me wrong, I will spend every last cent I have to help Sam, it's just that with the constant testing to diagnose the problem I am afraid there won't be anything left to TREAT the problem.
I live about an hour and a half from the University of Florida in Gainesville. They have a vet school hospital there. I don't know if he would get better care there? I have heard they are pricey but maybe they have better equipment?
Any thoughts? Should I try UF or stick with the ortho he is seeing now? Maybe because of Isabelle's misdiagnosis I am questioning the ortho vet too much?

 

[PushPurrCatPaws]

I know I have a hair-pulling smiley somewhere... which is probably how you are feeling!

PushPurrCatPaws
That's VERY interesting about limiting Sam's movement. I guess he is self-limiting right now. He isn't jumping or climbing and walks very slowly and carefully. But NONE of the vets he has seen said anything about crate rest. Actually vet #2 said to keep him active so the muscles don't atrophy and when I mentioned this to the ortho he didn't contradict that.
I'm beginning to question some of the things the ortho told me. For example:

He said that Sam's luxating patella is grade 2 and WOULD NOT GET ANY WORSE, yet from reading online (and your description of Milly's condition) it seems that it CAN get worse (grade 3, 4) over time. The only thing the ortho said was that arthritis could be a problem years down the line.

Second, he described Sam's kneecap as "going out" but immediately popping back in place. In my reading that indicates grade 1, but the ortho said he was grade 2.

Lastly, I didn't have the correct terminology, but I specifically asked if there was a tendon or muscle that sort of helped hold the kneecap in place that could be injured. He emphatically said No.
I've been doing some research and came across torn/ruptured cruciate ligament. Cats with luxating patella are more prone to this type of injury and the symptoms described sound quite a bit like Sam.

And you are saying that limiting his movement would be the normal course of action for a soft tissue injury that the ortho believes he has, and yet he didn't recommend this....

So now I am questioning (again) if this is the best vet for Sam. I am just so confused. I KNOW that my google searches are NOTHING compared to his medical knowledge and experience, but I still find myself questioning things he said.
Money is starting to become an issue as well. In three weeks I have spent a little over $2000 in vet bills. I think the ortho said an MRI will be an additional $1800. Then if he needs surgery...
Don't get me wrong, I will spend every last cent I have to help Sam, it's just that with the constant testing to diagnose the problem I am afraid there won't be anything left to TREAT the problem.
I live about an hour and a half from the University of Florida in Gainesville. They have a vet school hospital there. I don't know if he would get better care there? I have heard they are pricey but maybe they have better equipment?
Any thoughts? Should I try UF or stick with the ortho he is seeing now? Maybe because of Isabelle's misdiagnosis I am questioning the ortho vet too much?

Well, I'm not an ortho vet... but Sam could be between grade 1 and grade 2 with his knee(s)... Grade 1 if it can be manually dislocated by a person, yet it pops right back into place very easily. Grade 2 if his kneecap is at times popping out on its own when he's at home (with no human pushing on the patella to try to move it out of place), and then Sam is trying to jiggle or extend his leg(s) outwards while walking or getting up, to sort of pop the kneecap(s) back into place.
Luxating Patella in Cats

And yes, it's my understanding that there are ligaments/ soft tissues/ muscles that help keep the knee working smoothly. And of course, the cruciate ligaments are often involved. Several of Milly's had to be tweaked and permanently sutured to help keep her knees in good working order. Her right knee was more complicated than her left knee, but both also needed to have the patellas made smaller and the trochlear grooves widened and deepened, to work well with her "new" kneecaps. (It doesn't sound pleasant, does it.)

I don't know for sure, but I think injuries can cause various levels of luxating patella, and perhaps if the base cause is an injury, and proper care is put forth by the vet and cat owner, then maybe the degradation of the knee and joints can be halted? So that it won't progress past Grade 2?

I know that with my cat, her issues were congenital and would just keep getting worse as she got older: she would eventually go completely lame if we did nothing. We opted for surgery, absolutely.

I should think that you really need to make sure what is affecting Sam, and if the ortho vet states he suspects 'soft tissue injury', then he needs to do the tests (CT or MRI?) to find said injuries.

I guess I just worry, as there are some other things that can cause rear leg weakness, spinal or leg pain in cats. Cardiovascular issues, or even infectious diseases... so I wonder if any of the vets have explored those.

edit: I'll PM you -- maybe the place we took Milly to can offer a referral or recommendation of an ortho vet in your area? I don't know.

 

[dustydiamond1]

dustydiamond1
You are so sweet to think about my family. It touched my heart.
Dad had a rough week with the paramedics rushing him to the hospital twice. Once because his blood sugar had dropped to 32. He doesn't want to eat.

We are STILL waiting for the oncologist to set up the CT scan for my partner. I will be calling them again on Monday in the hopes that they will get it scheduled. Don't know why it is taking so long.
Thank you so much for thinking about us. Your kindness really means the world to me.

We are worried for you and all your loved ones, please keep us updated on how things are going for all of you.

 

[PushPurrCatPaws]