Salt and water solution added to grocery store chicken...Oy.

[whollycat]

I have fed whole cutup chicken fryers, or chicken thighs and breasts, from my local grocery for many years. Recently I told my meat guy to make sure it is fresh, with no "marinade" of any sort. He told me that they do inject a salt/water solution into all their chicken (I'm not sure about other meats) and wondered if that is what I meant. When I said, "WHAT!?" He replied that I have been feeding this all along to my kitties, and they "are doing fine." I think he said their salt/water solution was 14%--I need to talk to him further.

Come to find out, this is normal procedure with most grocery stores, not just in my area. I found this interesting link: http://foodwhistleblower.org/blog/22/198 No requirements are as yet in place for labeling such foods. I mean what about people on restricted sodium diets? I'm sure they're not concerned about kitties, but I sure am!

I coarse grind bones and all for my kitties. I know others feed frankenprey, so this would be concerning for some of them too.

I am upset, grumbling, and not sure what to do. I now do cold water baths before grinding of all chicken to try and leach the darn salt out of the chicken--I run cold water into the large bowl that the chicken is in, let sit for 20-30 minutes and repeat at least two more times. Is this enough?

 

[Willowy]

Yes, unless you get chicken straight from the farmer (who killed it himself and guarantees he didn't add anything), almost all chicken in the U.S. is "enhanced". But, no, I don't know what to do about it. . .I figured that since I don't feed a large percentage of raw it probably won't hurt my kitties.

ETA: hmmm, the article says "30% of poultry". I would put it higher than that because I can't find any chicken that isn't labeled as being enhanced, and that doesn't count the unlabeled stuff!

 

[carolina]

Actually, you need to read the label, then you can go a bit further and look at the back for the sodium content.
I have no problem buying chicken and meat right from Walmart that hasn't been enhanced. Yes, there IS enhanced meat/chicken, and there is "Not Enhanced" - that is the one you want.

The label will read "Not enhanced, minimally processed, no salt added", or something along those lines.
A lot of them list the sodium content on the back - for chicken they are generally around 65-70. When they are sodium enhanced they can go up to the thousands - reason why I haven't been able to by chicken liver from Walmart - they do have it, but the sodium is REALLY high. They do not say that salt is added, but they do not say it is not added either..... but by the sodium content you can guess what the case is :nod:

It is very important to feed Not enhanced meats/no salt added.
Drop the meat guy and go to the shelves - there is plenty of meats available there..... It is a good thing to have labels to read too :nod:

 

[ldg]

Oh Jules, what a bummer!!! I did NOT know that.

Actually, you need to read the label, then you can go a bit further and look at the back for the sodium content.
I have no problem buying chicken and meat right from Walmart that hasn't been enhanced. Yes, there IS enhanced meat/chicken, and there is "Not Enhanced" - that is the one you want.
The label will read "Not enhanced, minimally processed, no salt added", or something along those lines.
A lot of them list the sodium content on the back - for chicken they are generally around 65-70. When they are sodium enhanced they can go up to the thousands - reason why I haven't been able to by chicken liver from Walmart - they do have it, but the sodium is REALLY high. They do not say that salt is added, but they do not say it is not added either..... but by the sodium content you can guess what the case is :nod:
It is very important to feed Not enhanced meats/no salt added.
Drop the meat guy and go to the shelves - there is plenty of meats available there..... It is a good thing to have labels to read too :nod:

But

We buy packaged chicken (well, meats) not butchered by the supermarket. It's more expensive, so what we do is note the expiration dates on the packages (the lots with each new shipment all have the same dates). I stick on my calender to go check out XXX at the supermarket the day before that shipment expires. They are ALWAYS on sale ("manager's special"). I usually pick up pork loin for $1.99 a pound, and the locally/humanely farmed (A&Ps Mid-Atlantic Country line of poultry) vegetarian-fed chicken breasts, not enhanced, for $2.99 a pound and the thighs for $1.99 a pound.

...of course, that could just be a problem our local A&P has with their ordering system that they always wind up with meat on sale. :lol3:

 

[whollycat]

Actually, you need to read the label, then you can go a bit further and look at the back for the sodium content.
I have no problem buying chicken and meat right from Walmart that hasn't been enhanced. Yes, there IS enhanced meat/chicken, and there is "Not Enhanced" - that is the one you want.

That's just it, Carolina. I am very much a label reader, and it isn't on the label anywhere--no listing of ingredients or vitamins, minerals, etc., let alone the sodium content. That is why I am so frustrated. I live in a very rural area, so my choices are really limited. <sigh> Even our dumb Walmart only has the stuff with sodium added. Thanks for the input, though.

 

[whollycat]

Oh Jules, what a bummer!!! I did NOT know that.

Ya got that right. <sigh> Why the heck did it take me so long to bring the subject up to my meat guy at HyVee about any "marinades"? It just popped into my head, so I asked; never in a million years would I have thought that chicken, of all things, would have anything extra added to it. I mean, he has special-ordered cases of chicken just for me, so I didn't give it a second thought.

Maybe I'll post on FaceBook to see if anybody raises chickens and sells them dressed in my neck of the woods. This really sux.

Thanks, Laurie!

 

[ritz]

I personally am not too concerned about water being added to meat, at least from a health perspective.  (Though it kind of bugs me to be paying $1.99 or even 79 cents a pound for water). 

If the meat looks too ready to be cooked as is, then I make sure SUGAR hasn't been added, as was the case for some turkey I almost bought.

Pursuant to a new FDA rule effective March 1, 2012, all meat -- not just those that are enhanced (i.e., added salt/sugar/spices)  -- must now display a nutritional label on the meat or on a chart nearby.  I realize of course what is good/acceptable for humans is not good for cats.  But the label will list sodium content.  (Certain exceptions apply, of course!)

http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20120301/new-usda-nutrition-labels-for-meat-poultry

 

[ldg]

Maybe I'll post on FaceBook to see if anybody raises chickens and sells them dressed in my neck of the woods. This really sux.

Thanks, Laurie!

Also check your local Craigslist. :nod: You can advertise "wanted" there as well as search for people selling. You can also google for local farmer's markets - this is the season! - and if you find one, you can talk to them about off-season options. :nod: Pastured chickens will be more expensive, BUT if you search for local farms here, and go through them, it'll help you find local farmer's markets, because if they sell at them, that is sometimes mentioned in the listings. http://www.eatwild.com

And have you joined a the local Yahoo B.A.R.F. group? Mine is almost all dog owners (ya think? LOL), and unfortunately their buying co-op only gets ground stuff as it seems all of them feed ground raw which doesn't help me - but you may find a couple of buying coops that way. :nod: The one thing I will say about them is that they are a REALLY nice group of people!!!! OH! And some local farmers familiar with the group definitely post on there from time-to-time (things like "We slaughtered one of our older sheep, and will make the meat available for $7 for 10 pound lots. Please indicate interest and pick up is at 2:00pm on XYZ date and at XYZ location" kind of thing. :nod: ). Because the group covers all of NJ and the most active people are down by Philly, it's not worth it to me to drive three hours one-way for 10 pounds of mutton for $7 :lol3: , but something more local may come up at SOME point!

 

[ldg]

I personally am not too concerned about water being added to meat, at least from a health perspective.  (Though it kind of bugs me to be paying $1.99 or even 79 cents a pound for water). 
If the meat looks too ready to be cooked as is, then I make sure SUGAR hasn't been added, as was the case for some turkey I almost bought.
Pursuant to a new FDA rule effective March 1, 2012, all meat -- not just those that are enhanced (i.e., added salt/sugar/spices)  -- must now display a nutritional label on the meat or on a chart nearby.  I realize of course what is good/acceptable for humans is not good for cats.  But the label will list sodium content.  (Certain exceptions apply, of course!)
http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20120301/new-usda-nutrition-labels-for-meat-poultry

I don't think the concern is the water, I think it's the added salt. And the label doesn't have to be on the meat, it just has to be available at the store. And I'm not sure the saline solution falls into this labeling regulation.

 

[ritz]

Absolutely the concern is the added sodium.  And you're right, the label has to be available at the point of purchase, not necessarily on the packaged meat/poultry/pork.

http://catcentric.org/2012/05/17/enhanced-meats-more-common-than-you-might-think/has a good article about this.

 

[Willowy]

So today I went shopping and read the sodium levels on all the chicken :tongue2:. Wal-Mart must love us crazy people :lol3:. I guess the chicken quarters I get for the dogs aren't enhanced, because the sodium is only 75mg per 4-oz serving (I suppose I should figure out how to whack those up for the kitties. Cheap and non-enhanced!). But I also got some boneless skinless thighs for the kitties, all natural, vegetarian fed, no antibiotics, nothing added, blah blah, and it says 95mg of sodium per 4-oz serving. Are thighs naturally higher in sodium than other chicken parts? The enhanced chicken was around 200mg per serving.

Plus I looked at the livers and they only had 70mg per serving so I guess they aren't enhanced. Same for the hearts and gizzards (mostly gizzards)(yes, that's what it says on the package! :tongue2.

 

[whollycat]

So today I went shopping and read the sodium levels on all the chicken

. Wal-Mart must love us crazy people

. I guess the chicken quarters I get for the dogs aren't enhanced, because the sodium is only 75mg per 4-oz serving (I suppose I should figure out how to whack those up for the kitties. Cheap and non-enhanced!). But I also got some boneless skinless thighs for the kitties, all natural, vegetarian fed, no antibiotics, nothing added, blah blah, and it says 95mg of sodium per 4-oz serving. Are thighs naturally higher in sodium than other chicken parts? The enhanced chicken was around 200mg per serving.
Plus I looked at the livers and they only had 70mg per serving so I guess they aren't enhanced. Same for the hearts and gizzards (mostly gizzards)(yes, that's what it says on the package!

).

The skinless chicken thighs sound in line with what Nutrition Data says at 24mg sodium per oz (I'm assuming boneless). http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/poultry-products/735/2

We ARE just crazy cat people, so Walmart will have to deal with it.

Too bad my darn podunk town's Walmart doesn't have the non-enhanced. Grrrrrr....

I've been pressed for time, so will reply to others as soon as I can--I appreciate the input!

 

[whollycat]

I don't think the concern is the water, I think it's the added salt. And the label doesn't have to be on the meat, it just has to be available at the store. And I'm not sure the saline solution falls into this labeling regulation.

Yup Laurie, you're right, it's the darn salt.

So back to my question: Do y'all think that doing the cold water baths will leach out enough of the darn salt solution?

I'm coming up empty as far as other sources of meat, and can't afford to buy online and pay the high shipping costs at this time to get from Hare-Today. Oh my! I just thought of our local butcher shop (or it just sunk in if somebody said this already)!! Not sure if they'll have much because they are really small scale...

 

[Willowy]

But I'm also going to point out that 200mg of sodium isn't much at all. Less than 1/10 of a teaspoon. I don't know how much sodium is in cat food for comparison, though. Iams says .02% for cats, but unfortunately I don't know how to figure that :tongue2:. http://m.iams.com/mt/www.iams.com/pet-health/cat-article/sodium-and-pet-food-how-much-is-too-much

ETA: so, trying to do the math here. . .if a cat ate 100 grams of meat a day (a bit low but for easy figuring) and there was 200mg of sodium in it, wouldn't that be .02%? I think? If I'm getting all my zeros in the right places :lol3:.

 

[carolina]

But I'm also going to point out that 200mg of sodium isn't much at all. Less than 1/10 of a teaspoon. I don't know how much sodium is in cat food for comparison, though. Iams says .02% for cats, but unfortunately I don't know how to figure that :tongue2:. http://m.iams.com/mt/www.iams.com/pet-health/cat-article/sodium-and-pet-food-how-much-is-too-much
ETA: so, trying to do the math here. . .if a cat ate 100 grams of meat a day (a bit low but for easy figuring) and there was 200mg of sodium in it, wouldn't that be .02%? I think? If I'm getting all my zeros in the right places :lol3:.

No, 0.2%
200mg is 0.2g..... so that's 10 times more than 0.02%

1/10th tsp is not that little for a cat..... putting that into perspective, that's how much calcium it takes to balance Bugsy's food....
When dealing with cats, these measurements get tricky.....

 

[Willowy]

Yeah, I was just going over that in my head and came to that conclusion (100 grams being 100,000 milligrams, the first decimal place is the thousandths, the next decimal place is the ten thousandths, etc.). BUT. . .that means .02% would be 20 mg of sodium per 100 grams, and chicken (and presumably the meat cats eat in the wild, because blood has a lot of sodium in it) has way more than that. So that's the bare minimum, apparently. Does anyone know the upper allowance for cats? It seems to be a poorly studied subject.

 

[mschauer]

The AAFCO minimum recommendation for sodium is 0.2% on DMB. Assuming a food with 75% moisture, that comes out to 50 mg per 100 g As Fed.

The AAFCO doesn't set a maximum but the FEDIAF (European counterpart to AAFCO) does. They set the maximum at 1.8 g per 100 g DMB. Again assuming 75% moisture that comes out to 450 mg per 100 g AF.

That's if *I* did the math right! 

 

[whollycat]

The AAFCO minimum recommendation for sodium is 0.2% on DMB. Assuming a food with 75% moisture, that comes out to 50 mg per 100 g As Fed.

The AAFCO doesn't set a maximum but the FEDIAF (European counterpart to AAFCO) does. They set the maximum at 1.8 g per 100 g DMB. Again assuming 75% moisture that comes out to 450 mg per 100 g AF.

That's if *I* did the math right! 

 Do you have a link to the FEDIAF? Would love to look at that! Thanks, Mschauer!

 

[mschauer]

Scroll down the page a bit and you'll find a link to their nutritional guidelines:

http://www.fediaf.org/self-regulation/nutrition/

 

[whollycat]

Thanks, mschauer!! Sorry for the delayed response.