Raw.... maybe. LOL

[speakhandsforme]

Thanks everyone!!!

I'm just flabbergasted that Boots caught on so quickly to raw. After reading everyone else's trials, I wonder HOW he did it... with no toppers, enticements, temperature changes, whatever. All he needed was smaller pieces at first, and now he doesn't even need that.

I think it definitely helps that he is still a kitten (8.5 months! yay!) and therefore a voracious eater. Kinda like a teenager. :lol3:

That bone though... is right :lol3:

The funniest thing just happened too.

I am a night owl, so I just got out of bed. 3pm was their first meal of the day. Kramer was yowling and yowling and my toe swells up to the size of Texas if I stand on it too long right now, so I just quickly plopped some canned into their bowls, thinking I'd get to their raw later.

What does Kramer do? Quickly starts lapping up his beloved Friskies.

What does Boots do? Looks at the bowl, takes a sniff, PUTS HIS EARS BACK and walks away!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rofl: He's like HEY mama WHY are you giving me this crap now. :wife:

So I retrieved his beloved meaty bone out of the fridge and then he was a happy boy.

 

[ritz]

@speak[easy]:  Welcome to the dark side....    I am also one of the lucky ones; Ritz took to raw almost immediately, after being a Fancy Feast Classic Seafood [only] addict.  She went from commercial raw to frankenprey in about three months.  I use to hide liver and kidney in the commercial raw, until one day I didn't and she ate it right up without me having to disguse the taste.

Seems like Boots has good taste!

I love the sound of Ritz chewing bone and crunching on a live cricket (which I buy from PetCo/Pet Smart).  Unfortunately, she has to eat the low end of recommended bone percentage because she is prone to constipation.  For her, a little goes a long way.

You'll find lots of interesting organ/non organ meats in international supermarkets, including tongue and [a male private part]. 

Just a word about tripe:  the kind you find in supermarkets is usually "honeycomb" tripe, bleached white.  It has almost no nutritional value; even my ferals wouldn't eat it.  You want "green" tripe, called not because it is green but because it hasn't been processed or bleached.  You can sometimes find it in high-end pet food stores, sometimes marketed to dogs, and on-line raw suppliers (like Hare Today) carry it.  The fresh green tripe smells, I'm told.  Tripe is considered a muscle meat.

Let us know how it is going, and I hope YOU get going on a rapidly healing foot.

 

[feralvr]

What does Boots do? Looks at the bowl, takes a sniff, PUTS HIS EARS BACK and walks away!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rofl: He's like HEY mama WHY are you giving me this crap now. :wife:
So I retrieved his beloved meaty bone out of the fridge and then he was a happy boy.

What else can I say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am extremely envious too :lol3: SUPER BOY, Boots :rub:

 

[speakhandsforme]

Hi! I have a few more questions about equipment, menus, etc. I will be doing bone-in frankenprey.

1. Do you HAVE to feed rabbit? I am fairly sure that's the only thing I won't be able to find in Orlando. If I need to order it from Hare Today I will, but I would rather shop local if I can. All the other organ meats and stuff I can find here. Just wondering if rabbit is essential or not, if it provides some special nutrient I need to know about.

I can get the usual beef, chicken, turkey and pork, but I also have local access to duck, liver/kidneys, and other organs (even lung!) through the ethnic markets around here.

AC's frankenprey feeding schedule does have rabbit.

Now that I think about it, I might be able to get rabbit when I visit home in the Panhandle, as my parents know a lot of people that hunt and get deer, wild turkey, etc. I'll ask about that soon.

2. What scales do all of you use? I have a $5 IKEA dial scale for my own weight :lol3: But it isn't very reliable. I need a digital scale to measure their weights more accurately so I know if I'm feeding them too much or too little. I also need a food scale to measure their ounces correctly. If anyone has suggestions or product reviews I'd love to hear them.

3. Kramer weighed 9 lbs at the vet in September. If my IKEA scale is right, he now weighs 12 :anon: But this could be faulty scales, and also he may have grown some, since in September he was only one year old. From the body scoring charts he doesn't look overweight though. Maybe on the high end of moderate on this chart, but he definitely isn't stout. He's also a very active boy and runs/wrestles with Boots several times a day, as well as toy playing. Any initial suggestions on what percentage he needs to eat? I'm thinking to start at 3% and go up or down as needed.

4. Again, according to the finicky IKEA scale, :lol3: Boots weighs 8 lbs. Which to me seems huge for a kitten, but he is an oriental body type, thus very long, and also still has a lot of growing to do (8.5 months old). He is also definitely in the normal range on the body scoring chart. He is a holy terror in terms of physical activity, so maybe I should start him at 4% since he is a kitten? Do kittens need higher percentages than that?

5. Does anyone else who does frankenprey follow a different menu?

6. Does anyone here feed whole mice or whole prey? I think Boots might take well to that, and I'd just like to hear some personal stories.

THANK YOU all so much for your help and encouragement!! And I hope your raw journeys go well too.

 

[goingpostal]

You don't have to feed any certain protein source, just have a good variety. I make sure rabbit is part of my cats' diet because otherwise she eats mostly poultry. I got a deli scale off a store that was shutting down so can't help you on the scale but search amazon, it doesn't need to be fancy. My cat is a senior, around 10 pounds and she eats 5-6 ounces a day, which is on the high end but each cat is different. I do feed whole mice although she won't eat any other fur or feather on whole prey I've tried, won't even touch rabbit pinkies, a normal week for my cat is 1 day rabbit, 1 day duck, 1 day mice, and the rest chicken, turkey or cornish game hen, I switch out parts for bone in and boneless weekly. She cannot or will not eat pork, beef, or lamb.

 

[speakhandsforme]

Thank you!!

Okay, another mini-update:

Tonight I went to Target and got a digital scale, which is accurate (yay!) and a food scale (haven't tested it yet).

Then we went to Walmart and got some meat! Including
-Chicken (all parts)
-Chicken wings
-Beef (rump roast because it was the cheapest)
-Beef liver
-Turkey wings
-Pork cutlets of some kind, boneless.
-1 pack of sardines in water, no salt added

All together, 15 lbs. of meat for $11, because my boyfriend had a gift card he was never going to use :bigthumb:

All I'm missing now is kidneys/pancreas, which I plan on getting tomorrow when the ethnic groceries open.

Results of the scale: Kramer indeed weighs 12 lbs. And Boots weighs... 10.4 Wow! He seems so tiny :lol3:

Before I chop up all the meat and portion it for them (minus the kidney) I'm going to cut a bit of everything and see who eats what right away.

 

[speakhandsforme]

Another question:

Has anyone found kidneys or pancreas at Whole Foods in the past? I'm thinking of calling tomorrow and asking. Good to have multiple sources in case one goes south. :bigthumb:

 

[carolina]

No..... I bought ground beef pancreas from Hare Today and fed it to the kids today for the first time - HUGE hit! They loved it!!! Highly recommend it!
The meat at Hare Today is great - at least I like it.... you can get rabbit from there, a bunch of stuff for actually very reasonable prices... Shipping is not expensive at all....
I HATE kidneys - HATE HATE HATE - I call it jelly-pee.... and Hope will not eat it either..... so.... I am SO glad they like pancreas!
BTW, make sure to rinse the meat from the supermarket in cold water before you cut and pack it.... the bacteria tends to be on the surface

 

[speakhandsforme]

Hi! Thank you for the tips

Last night we did a bit of a taste test.

Sardines -- yes. Huge yes. :lol3: for both cats. Although, Kramer ate more of his after I squished it up for him with a fork. He still doesn't really "get" the whole chewing thing... but we're working on it. :cross:

Pork -- yes! Both cats liked it.

Turkey -- again yes.

Beef liver -- BIG NO :lol3: I don't blame them as it had a rather, um, interesting smell. Neither of them would even lick it, although they did go up to sniff. So somehow I'll have to incorporate it into their meals. I might try disguising it in some pork today and seeing what happens.

The good thing about feeding raw stuff is, if they don't like it, you can eat it :bigthumb: or in the case of the liver, give it to the ferals!

 

[parsleysage]

Katie, your updates are sooooo exciting!!!!!!!  I think it's a wonderful example that we have here on the boards... some cats start easy, some start difficult, some start impossible... I think all the stories, the exciting reports AND the difficult, frustrating ones 

 have a lot of value to people who might be lurking here thinking of trying raw!  I think the main thing I've picked up is that while some adult cats take to raw immediately, your absolute best bet to foster the carnivore in your cat is to start at kittenhood!  LOL!  The little carnies (my own included) crack me up!

The other thing I've picked up is that raw really IS the most appropriate diet for our cats.  Studies are great and are absolutely necessary to establishing raw in the "mainstream" but you just can't beat the story of Bugsy, whose life was literally saved by a raw diet, to convince you.  It's the difference between knowing something and seeing it.  It's so exciting to think that those of us who've started threads here in the raw section are now doing the absolute best we can for our cats - those who can go all raw are going all raw, those who can do some raw and some canned are doing it, those who can do all canned are doing it, those who can cut out all grains whether in canned or in dry are doing it.  Every step we get closer to species-appropriate diet - and every unnecessary or harmful thing we eliminate - is a wonderful thing for our cats and their health.  Woooo!!!!!

Sorry for the pep talk, just got SOOOO excited at how quickly & awesome-ly Boots's and Kramer's raw journey has taken off!  Boots sounds like the kinda guy my three would love to have over (after proper introduction and scent exchange LOL 

).  I think he's on the right track weight-wise - you are about where I am on the incredulous scale... My boys are turning a year old in a couple days and now topping 13 pounds... when I found out they were 12 pounds at 10 months old I wanted to shout from the rooftops how big they were, lean mean muscle machines!!!!  I'm still in that state... I still think it's amazing how huge they are.  I'm sure folks on the board are like... that crazy lady... MY cat's been 13 pounds for 4 years and you don't see me BRAGGING about it!! LOL!!!!!!  

  And I say... "b-b-b-bbut, mine were leetle beety teeny weenie babies that I could hold in my palm, like, five MINUTES ago!"  So, the jaw-drop that you are experiencing knowing how much Boots weighs at almost 9 months is probably going to last for at least another six months!!  It's just amazing... they go from tiny to "wow they're GETTING big" to "holy crap they ARE big!!!!!!!"  It's the shock of seeing them cat-sized instead of kitten-sized that does it, I think.  And on raw Boots will likely put on a lot of muscle especially if he has the oriental body frame - very long and tall I assume?  So he'll probably end up weighing more than you think is possible!!

 

[speakhandsforme]

Katie, your updates are sooooo exciting!!!!!!!  I think it's a wonderful example that we have here on the boards... some cats start easy, some start difficult, some start impossible... I think all the stories, the exciting reports AND the difficult, frustrating ones   have a lot of value to people who might be lurking here thinking of trying raw!  I think the main thing I've picked up is that while some adult cats take to raw immediately, your absolute best bet to foster the carnivore in your cat is to start at kittenhood!  LOL!  The little carnies (my own included) crack me up!

The other thing I've picked up is that raw really IS the most appropriate diet for our cats.  Studies are great and are absolutely necessary to establishing raw in the "mainstream" but you just can't beat the story of Bugsy, whose life was literally saved by a raw diet, to convince you.  It's the difference between knowing something and seeing it.  It's so exciting to think that those of us who've started threads here in the raw section are now doing the absolute best we can for our cats - those who can go all raw are going all raw, those who can do some raw and some canned are doing it, those who can do all canned are doing it, those who can cut out all grains whether in canned or in dry are doing it.  Every step we get closer to species-appropriate diet - and every unnecessary or harmful thing we eliminate - is a wonderful thing for our cats and their health.  Woooo!!!!!

Sorry for the pep talk, just got SOOOO excited at how quickly & awesome-ly Boots's and Kramer's raw journey has taken off!  Boots sounds like the kinda guy my three would love to have over (after proper introduction and scent exchange LOL  ).  I think he's on the right track weight-wise - you are about where I am on the incredulous scale... My boys are turning a year old in a couple days and now topping 13 pounds... when I found out they were 12 pounds at 10 months old I wanted to shout from the rooftops how big they were, lean mean muscle machines!!!!  I'm still in that state... I still think it's amazing how huge they are.  I'm sure folks on the board are like... that crazy lady... MY cat's been 13 pounds for 4 years and you don't see me BRAGGING about it!! LOL!!!!!!  :rofl:   And I say... "b-b-b-bbut, mine were leetle beety teeny weenie babies that I could hold in my palm, like, five MINUTES ago!"  So, the jaw-drop that you are experiencing knowing how much Boots weighs at almost 9 months is probably going to last for at least another six months!!  It's just amazing... they go from tiny to "wow they're GETTING big" to "holy crap they ARE big!!!!!!!"  It's the shock of seeing them cat-sized instead of kitten-sized that does it, I think.  And on raw Boots will likely put on a lot of muscle especially if he has the oriental body frame - very long and tall I assume?  So he'll probably end up weighing more than you think is possible!!

Thank you! I'm glad you guys put up with my every little detail :lol3:

Boots did indeed start ridiculously easy.... Kramer is proving more difficult, but if he's the only one I have to really work on to get him to eat raw, I consider myself pretty lucky. I do hope Boots' immediate love of raw encourages some people to try it! It's really pretty easy. I don't know WHY I haven't done this until now.

Yes, Boots is HUGE! Ha! I'm seriously shocked. Especially since the last time he went to the vet, it was August of 2011, he was ~8 weeks old, possibly younger, and he weighed less than 2 pounds. :lol3: It's just such a shock to see how well he grew up.... encouraging to think that I can in fact care for another living being successfully :rub: He is the oriental type from what I can see. Not as tall yet as Kramer, but definitely as long, if not longer (Kramer is somewhere between normal and cobby). I just hope he doesn't turn into a butterball. :lol3:

Are all three of yours on raw now, or are you still working on the transition from wet?

 

[ldg]

:lol3: I remember when I first joined TCS. We'd been caring for a stray kitty - she came in and slept near the door sometimes (bad weather). Then kittens (not hers, she was spayed) turned up in the yard, and I found TCS, and the rest is history. :lol3: People were chatting about their cats, and they'd had them for 2 years, 3 years, 10 years, and I remember wondering - what's it going to be like after having spent 2, 3, or 10 years with my kitties?

Well - my oldest turn 10 this year! And Katie, like you, I find it encouraging (well, amazing, actually LOL), that I can care for other living beings and keep them not only alive, but healthy! But WOW do they grow up fast! If you're not taking lots of pictures, get to it!

 

[speakhandsforme]

Tonight was our first try of a full raw meal. I took up the kibble. :cross:

It was a combination of boneless pork chop and turkey wing.

Kramer was not all that interested in either... UNTIL I broke out the parmesan cheese. :lol3: Then he ate both off my fingers with gusto. He doesn't need the smaller "meaty bits" anymore, he can handle proper frankenprey-sized pieces. But, he's not excited about eating it without the cheese, or if I don't personally offer each piece to him. He'll eat a few pieces on his own, but then he'll walk away and I have to rub each piece in the cheese and call him back to come eat it. (He drags it off to "play" ) I'll have to work on that. :nod:

Boots actually ate two meals of raw today He eats the pork and turkey on its own, but likes it even more with the cheese.

Both of them prefer pork to the turkey wing meat, but won't turn down either.

Hopefully we can get Kramer to start eating on his own here soon. :bigthumb:

 

[southpaw]

That's so cool that they're taking to it like champions!!!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

.  I guess I'd better go get some parmesan!  Did you just use the stuff in the green can, or the REAL stuff

.  (I've only got the real stuff ($$$)  Not sure I want to waste it since pretty much every thing I try lately ends up going down the garbage disposal

But so happy your two are taking to raw so easily.  I'm seriously thinking I just need to go directly to Frankenprey and skip the ground stuff.  

 

[speakhandsforme]

That's so cool that they're taking to it like champions!!!

Yes... yes it is. :lol3: I do think the trick, like Anna said, is to start them as young as possible, before they're super duper set in their food ways like older cats. :nod: I understand that's not something anyone can help, though.

.  I guess I'd better go get some parmesan!  Did you just use the stuff in the green can, or the REAL stuff :lol3: .  (I've only got the real stuff ($$$)  Not sure I want to waste it since pretty much every thing I try lately ends up going down the garbage disposal

But so happy your two are taking to raw so easily.  I'm seriously thinking I just need to go directly to Frankenprey and skip the ground stuff.   :scratch:

Yeah, I didn't really consider doing ground. I knew they could chew, basically And I knew they liked eating little bits of raw that I would sneak them when preparing dinner or whatever. So it just made sense for mine to go straight to FP and not bother with grinders or anything like that. But other people whose cats have real texture issues probably really need that intermediate step of ground since it's more similar to the texture of canned.

As for the cheese, just the stuff in the green can. They like it a lot, so I'm hoping I don't have to go out and buy any freeze-dried stuff or Fortiflora or whatever. I will be getting a probiotic anyway, even though neither of them have thrown up or had poop issues from anything I've given them so far!!! And I've been introducing new proteins waaaayyy too quickly...

Anyway, on to the mini-update!

Boots happily ate another meal of pork and turkey this morning at about 9.

Kramer was not interested in anything this morning. He did lick cheese off the meat I held out to him, but didn't bite. BUT, he had eaten a ton of raw (for him) at about 2 or 3am, so he just may not have been all that hungry. :nod: We'll see how he feels in a little while when meal time #2 rolls around.

 

[speakhandsforme]

Well... it appears I spoke too soon.

I just fed them again. Last of the pork and turkey that I'd cut up yesterday.

Boots ate like a champ once again.

Kramer refused it again... and THEN threw up. No chunks of anything, just pinkish/grayish liquid.

I'm wondering if this is a sign of some intolerance to pork or turkey, or just that he's gone too long between feedings and is getting that acid buildup. :dk: Either way, he still has only gone 12 hours without food. So I'm not concerned for his liver yet.

Tonight is beef and chicken again... wish me luck. :cross:

 

[feralvr]

YAY for Boots :bigthumb: SORRY about Kramer and the We have all been there in the :nausea: department. Hope dinner goes better :cross:

I have never had luck with Parmesan Cheese. My dog, Wilbur, doesn't even go for it. It is just a crap-shoot on the topping's. What works for one cat won't work for another. They just have to make thing's a wee bit difficult - keep's daily life and raw feeding a challenge :lol3:

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Bummer on Kramer tossing his cookies

.  Probably not acid buildup.  As far as I know, that's usually just a whitish froth which will disappear into your carpet.  That's how it is here anyway, and Sven has that LOTS

because of his CRF, even though he's on Pepcid AC twice a day, every day, poor guy.  I'm thinking it may be just too much, too fast, with no probiotics yet?  (not that I'm any kind of expert on the subject though

)

 

[ritz]

Maybe an intolerance to the cheese?

I feed Ritz 100% Frankenprey.

Ritz throws up every once in a while, almost immediately or two hours after she's eaten.  And it's undigested food, that is, if I fed her pork at 4 a.m. and beef and 6 a.m. and she throws up at 6:15 a.m., I can tell which part is beef and which part is pork.  So, I'm puzzled about the consistency Kramer's vomit.  (Hope you're not eating dinner while you're reading this   

About liver, try another source of liver, like chicken.  Beef is pretty strong; for example, Ritz loves chicken heart but won't touch beef heart.  Lamb is pretty well tolerated, so search for those organs meets.  I've seen goat in the Asian/international supermarkets but haven't been brave enough to try it.

Hope Kramer feels better.

.