Raw.... maybe. LOL

speakhandsforme

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I've been (vaguely) thinking about starting to feed my boys raw lately. I've been lurking on everyone's raw threads and observing the trials and challenges, and triumphs. :lol3:

I have no plan whatsoever for this. I just wanted to see if mine would even register it as food in their little kitty heads. I had a pretty good feeling they'd take to it well. Both of them are already on timed wet (and I free feed dry Blue Buffalo Wilderness too :anon: for boots since he's growing...)

Boots loves all cat food but especially all people food and will think he is getting a special treat. Also, he's only 6 months ex-feral, so maybe he had some hunting (and thus raw) under his belt before I got him? Kramer is more picky, but I thought I'd try it anyway. He's not even 2 years old yet, so probably not as set in his ways as older cats who refuse raw. So tonight, I thawed a chicken thigh.

First, I cut it up into little kitty bite-sized pieces. I mean maybe 10 tiny pieces total, pieces the size of my thumbnail. The thigh was still somewhat frozen in the middle... easily cut through but still icy and chewy. Both cats attempted to eat the pieces anyway. They were super excited! But the chewing thing put them off in the end. They tried valiantly but gave up when they couldn't swallow it after a few chews. But, they loved the flavor. They both enthusiastically licked the chicken juice and bits off my fingers and gobbled up the skin.

Then, I zapped the pieces in the microwave for just a few seconds, to bring them to body heat-ish temperature, like lukewarm. Boots gobbled down the whole dish before Kramer could even get a bite. :lol3:

I'm going to try Kramer again tomorrow with some warmer pieces. But just the fact that they were WANTING to eat semi-frozen raw chicken is a very encouraging sign. :nod:

If they still have texture/chewing issues, a dental is probably in order, or at least a more regular Greenies schedule, before I look into grinders and such. But I really think the warmth helped eliminate some of the chewing issues since Boots ate it all easily after that.
 

mschauer

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Welcome to the raw feeders group!

Sounds like your guys are going to be naturals.

To get them to learn how to chew big chunks of meat you might try cutting the meat into long strips. With strips they have little choice but to pick up one end and chew off a piece which is the normal way they handle a large piece of meat. Start with fairly skinny strips so it's easy for them to chew off a piece but make it thick enough and long enough that they aren't tempted to swallow it whole.

Good luck and keep us updated! 
 

feralvr

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Hello :D... and Welcome to the Raw Camps :lol3: :woohoo: It seems to be so easy for some cat's to transition and then the other's are so much more work. The "convincing" never ends. With my six, two of them took to it immediately and have never looked back. The other four are still a work in progress. It is a labor of love and I am ecstatic with the closer bond I am developing with all of my cat's because of this process. I have gotten into their little heads and seem to have learned new thing's about their personalities that I never knew before. Pretty cool :cool: :heart3:

Much luck and most of all - HAVE FUN :lol2: - well try anyway..... :winkblue: :happy3: :wavey:
 
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ldg

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:lol3: It really is just too cute to watch and hear them chewing away. That they LIKE it is a big help! :flail: They'll get to work on chewing for that reason alone. But yep - we started with very small slices and worked (well - are still working LOL) our way up to larger pieces for most of them. But they'll get the hang of it! :clap: :clap: :clap:
 

mrsgreenjeens

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You're so lucky that they already seem to like it! 
Sounds to me like you're halfway there 
 

feralvr

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:lol3: It really is just too cute to watch and hear them chewing away. :
:yeah: :lol3: I have a thing about listening to the cat's chewing raw fresh meat. I LOVE THAT SOUND and watching them chew. Like little lions in the wild :lol2:
 
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speakhandsforme

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Update!

I tried again yesterday.

I cut the chicken into long strips for Boots (thanks for the idea mschauer! :bigthumb: ). Right out of the fridge, no microwave or anything. Once again, he tried really hard to chew it. I think he's getting the hang of it, but it took him forever to finish two strips about as long as my thumb. Probably just needs to practice his technique a bit more. :lol3:

For Kramer, I cut the chicken up into tiny bits, the size of the "meaty bits" he gets in his canned food. Success! He ate the whole dish. :bigthumb: But he still gave up on the strips. I'll work him up to bigger pieces incrementally. I think he still doesn't understand that if it's bigger than the bits he can't just lick it up like he normally does, he has to chew and bite it, and that frustrates him.

Oh, and Boots tried to eat the tiny bits too. He was being lazy. :lol3: But I pulled him back so Kramer could get his share.

I'm making a beef dish tomorrow night and I'll see if they like that meat too.

I think they're going to transition well. :nod: Now I just need to do the cost analysis, figure out amounts and schedules and such.

Is just feeding them hand-prepared chunks of supermarket meat frankenprey? Or would it be called commercial raw? I have no clue. If they eat supermarket meat, I don't think I'll have to buy any of those overpriced commercial products (like Rad Cat, Nature's Menu, whatever), right?
 

sugarcatmom

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I think he's getting the hang of it, but it took him forever to finish two strips about as long as my thumb. Probably just needs to practice his technique a bit more.

For Kramer, I cut the chicken up into tiny bits, the size of the "meaty bits" he gets in his canned food. Success! He ate the whole dish.
Woot! That's fantastic. The biggest hurdle is getting them to recognize raw meat as something edible, so you're over the hump. The rest will come eventually.
Is just feeding them hand-prepared chunks of supermarket meat frankenprey? Or would it be called commercial raw? I have no clue. If they eat supermarket meat, I don't think I'll have to buy any of those overpriced commercial products (like Rad Cat, Nature's Menu, whatever), right?
It's not quite that easy. The grocery-store muscle meat has to be balanced with the appropriate amount of bone and organs (for calcium and other vitamins/minerals), otherwise you could end up with some serious health problems. Commercial raw generally refers to a pre-made frozen raw diet specifically for pets that is frequently (though not always) balanced already, so that you only have to thaw and serve (or add minimum supplements as necessary). But with a bit of research, it's totally doable (and cheaper) to make your own nutritionally complete raw food.
 
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speakhandsforme

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It's not quite that easy. The grocery-store muscle meat has to be balanced with the appropriate amount of bone and organs (for calcium and other vitamins/minerals), otherwise you could end up with some serious health problems. Commercial raw generally refers to a pre-made frozen raw diet specifically for pets that is frequently (though not always) balanced already, so that you only have to thaw and serve (or add minimum supplements as necessary). But with a bit of research, it's totally doable (and cheaper) to make your own nutritionally complete raw food.
Oh yes, I did know that they need bones and organ meat too. :nod: But thank you for reminding me. I'm not feeding them 100% raw or anything yet but I'll write that down when I start planning this in earnest.

Another update: I made that beef dish, and Boots likes beef too. :clap: It was little bits of chuck eye steak. He didn't eat the whole dish, but he'd eaten a substantial amount of chicken beforehand so I wasn't surprised. He definitely minds chewing less now. I was kinda surprised to see that he left behind the pieces that were mostly fat.

Kramer only licked tiny pieces off my fingers. Dunno if it was the beef itself, the fact that he'd eaten some chicken 30 minutes earlier, or was just wary of chewing, but he didn't touch the bits I cut up for him. (Boots once again happily gobbled those down. :lol3:) I'll try him again tomorrow.
 

ldg

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When you start thinking menu planning for frankenprey, AC has a handy calculator on her site. :) http://catcentric.org/ On the left, scroll down to special features.

Basically, the target is 80% meat (including "muscle" organs like heart, gizzard, lung); 10% bone (if using bone-in meals); 5% liver; and 5% "other" secreting organ. Easiest to find kidney. Hare-Today also sells beef pancreas. http://www.hare-today.com is an easy source of heart, liver and gizzard if you don't want to source locally, and shipping costs are quite reasonable typically. I think CatCentric also has a homemade source guide.
 
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speakhandsforme

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Thank you! :wavey:

I live in Orlando and there are tons of Hispanic/Vietnamese/Thai butchers and such around. Do you think they would sell those types of organs? I mean, we have menudo (beef tripe/intestines) in the regular meat coolers here even at Walmart. Which I never saw back home, so I'm assuming that's unusual. :D
 
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speakhandsforme

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Looking at the calculator now (thanks again!)

I put in 9lbs for Kramer, 3% of weight, and it came out to 4.32 ounces a day. This is normal? I mean, I know they eat less raw than they would on canned. But split over 2 meals that seems like not a lot of food and I don't want to starve them, as Kramer will meow his little head off. :lol3:
 

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Sounds like a good amount to me.
My cat weighs 11lbs and, feeding at 2%, the raw food store recommended that I feed him just over 3 ounces a day. A little goes a long way with raw since their bodies utilize it much better!
 

ldg

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Yep, me too. My 7.5 pound Flowerbelle and my 10 pound Ming Loy both eat 3 oz a day. Either Ming Loy has a very sluggish metabolism, or she's losing weight veeeeeery slowly. :lol3: Billy weighs 14 pounds, and I've had to take him down to about 3.6 ounces, and I don't think he's losing weight yet. The others all weigh around 11-12 pounds, and they eat 4.5 ounces a day. The highest percentage any of them is on is 2.25% of their body weight.
 

carolina

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Yep, me too. My 7.5 pound Flowerbelle and my 10 pound Ming Loy both eat 3 oz a day. Either Ming Loy has a very sluggish metabolism, or she's losing weight veeeeeery slowly. :lol3: Billy weighs 14 pounds, and I've had to take him down to about 3.6 ounces, and I don't think he's losing weight yet. The others all weigh around 11-12 pounds, and they eat 4.5 ounces a day. The highest percentage any of them is on is 2.25% of their body weight.
:yeah: Bugsy eats about 1.8% I think.... around there..... anything more than that, and he will gain weight. Lucky and Hope around 2.25%. No one here eats more than that.
Do not believe for a second that they won't gain weight on raw - yep, they will..... They will pork up big time.
They need very little food to meet their nutritional needs.... Good thing is, they will be satisfied.... No one here is screaming for food, just at meal times they go slightly nuts :lol3: But that's all part of the fun!
 

ldg

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They need very little food to meet their nutritional needs.... Good thing is, they will be satisfied.... No one here is screaming for food, just at meal times they go slightly nuts :lol3: But that's all part of the fun!
:yeah: :lol3: It is REALLY amazing. On canned, they used to wake me up in the middle of the night, wee hours of the morning... now they don't!
 
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speakhandsforme

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Something AMAZING just happened!!! :shocker:

I was giving Boots his meal of raw just now and I was wondering what to do with the bone of the chicken thigh. After debating on whether or not to save it for stock, I put it in Boots' dish, thinking he would like to gnaw and lick the meat off of it. (Btw, he's graduated into eating frankenprey full on now, no tiny bits required.)

What do I hear thirty seconds later?

"snap, snap, snap"

I go back in and he's EATING THE BONE!!!!!! Happily crunching away at it ALREADY! This cat is a born carnivore, people! (Like my joke? :lol3:)

I went back and checked just now. He didn't eat the whole thing, but he gnawed off a considerable portion of both ends. To make sure my ears weren't deceiving me, I touched both ends and they were rough and you could see the marrow.

I saved it for him for tomorrow. :bigthumb:

This cat is never going to need a dental in his life at this rate!! :dance:

Less exciting Kramer update: I think I've figured out the root of Kramer's hesitance. :nod: You know how there is something about raw that brings out the primal in some cats? How they like to guard their food with their body language? Boots is DEFINITELY that way, and he's also definitely the alpha cat over Kramer (yes, even though he is smaller :lol3:) I think Kramer is nervous about eating raw around Boots. He likes the chicken, and he will eat a few pieces out of the bowl by himself, but mainly he likes to lick it off my fingers while I'm sitting on the floor and Boots is on the other side of me. Maybe I provide a sense of security for him? I've noticed even when they get canned, that Kramer will take a few licks, then walk off until Boots is done eating and come back and finish his, even if that means Boots gets a little of his food.

So I think starting with their next raw meal I'm going to start feeding Kramer in the bathroom, and spending time with him in there praising him until he gets a little more confident about his raw. Then I can reintroduce him to Boots while eating. Or we might do crate training. I haven't decided yet. What do y'all think?

Man! I need to get on this menu planning business. Fortunately I'm laid up with an infected foot, and doctor's orders not to walk or stand more than necessary, so I have a perfect excuse to lay on the couch all day tomorrow with my foot elevated, doing cat stuff on my laptop. :lol3:
 
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ldg

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Aw, sorry about the foot! :vibes: :vibes: :vibes:

But :wow: GO BOOTS GO! :clap: :clap: :clap:

And good observation - sounds like a good plan for Kramer. :cross:

Sounds like crate training may be easier in the long run. :dk: But you can certainly give this a try, and see if you need to consider the crate training route. :nod:
 

feralvr

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Aw, sorry about the foot! :vibes: :vibes: :vibes:
But :wow: GO BOOTS GO! :clap: :clap: :clap:
And good observation - sounds like a good plan for Kramer. :cross:
Sounds like crate training may be easier in the long run. :dk: But you can certainly give this a try, and see if you need to consider the crate training route. :nod:
:yeah: :wow: YAY FOR BOOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You must be the happiest momma on site this morning :lol3: Seriously, that is just "raw"some......I do think that raw brings out the "carnie" aggressively so in some kitties. Maybe Kramer is sensing that from Boot's :paranoid: :nervous: I have heard of many raw feeder's feeding the cats whole frankenprey in crates :nod: The cat's learn very quickly to run to those crates when momma brings out the "bird" :flail: That way they don't drag it all over the house and growl at each other (and making a raw mess all over the house) :lol3:.... I really enjoy reading all of the updates from everyone. We all learn something new each day from out kitties during this process :nod: :bigthumb: KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :woohoo:
 
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