Raw For Ibd / Digestive Issues

[LTS3]

Is there a chart that says how many calories are in certian proteins?

 

[lisahe]

Is there a chart that says how many calories are in certian proteins?

I'm sure there are US government charts somewhere but I suspect meat packages for specific cuts may be your most accurate source because different cuts have different fat contents... even so, the figures are pretty generic. The old "your results may vary" is especially true with meats because some pieces will have more fat than others. Plus you can either trim fat or not. (I sometimes do and sometimes don't, largely depending on the season.)

Although I know calories can be a big concern, personally, I'd focus first on seeing if a new protein works for Leroy and then adjust the calories as necessary by adjusting portion sizes, trimming or adding fat or water, etc. I say that in large part because sodium content is such an important consideration: there are guidelines for that on the EZComplete site and lots of meats at my grocery store have too much sodium, cutting them out of contention. Keep in mind that one store's or brand's package may quote one figure and another might quote another, even for meats without any salt or brining. There's also the rather arbitrary matter of our cats liking some cuts (chicken breast) but pretty much hating others (chicken thighs)! All those considerations make the calories something that's (relatively) easy to work around. Pork has turned out to be a good one for our cats' homecooked food: both of them love it, there are lots of cuts available, and pork's often on sale.

 

[lisamarie12]

I'm really sorry to hear about Leroy, I've followed your posts the last couple years and know that Leroy has been eating NV raw since he was a kitten.

I would do everything possible to keep Leroy on the least processed diet available. I would also consider avoiding chicken, the majority of commercially raised chickens for food are corn fed and are high in omega 6 which can cause inflammation.

Maybe look for pasture fed meats although pasture fed meats tend to be red meats which can be difficult for some kitties to digest, however, you could introduce slowly and see how it goes.

As far as the fruits and veggies in NV, I would mainly look at the carb percentage and try to keep it under 5 percent.

If you do decide to do home made raw or cooked, Hare Today has a variety of boneless meats that you can use with EZ, I had no issue cooking boneless HT meat for my cats when I was doing home cooked.

I hope you'll be able to find something that both kitties can eat, hopefully also you will have a clearer idea of what's happening after Leroy gets the ultrasound, sending purrs.

 

[LTS3]

I was thinking of using boneless ground meat from HT. I have no patience to grind / chop meat myself I need to call the pet store and see if the owner can special order boneless chubs for me.

Ideally I'd like both cats on the same diet but Emma is finicky so I may still need to feed her NV and keep Leroy from licking her bowl clean.

 

[lisamarie12]

Oh, I forgot- Fresh is Best makes a freeze dried food for cats, using oyster shell and mchc for calcium. They have a duck formula although it's not yet listed on their site, it can still be ordered though by phone, my cats like it.

 

[mschauer]

I guess my main questions are:

• Do I need to chang the raw diet from NV to a recipie which is "bland" (no extra stuff)?
• If raw is a great diet for all cats because it's highly digestible, doesn't cause irritation to the GI tract, etc as many web sites say, is it possible for a life long raw fed cat to even develop digestive issues? Does the type of raw diet a cat eats for a long time have any role in digestive issues? Leroy has only eaten NV raw along with some raw / Alnutrin. If I had fed him, say, Dr. Lisa's recipe instead, would he still have developed digestive issues?

I can add a digestive enzyme to my Amazon order. I know the vet would be fine with it. I know Prozyme is a popular one but is it a good one?

I'm so sorry Leroy might have IBD but I'm glad you posted. My Zara was diagnosed with IBD last May. I've been kicking myself because all my cats were on a 100% homemade raw diet for 7 years but then, out of the blue, they all turned up their noses at it. Wouldn't eat raw in any form, homemade or commercial. For the about 1.5 or 2 years prior to Zara's IBD diagnosis they had all been on a mostly processed canned diet. All the time they were on a raw diet I told myself that at least I never had to worry about them getting IBD since all the anecdotal evidence seemed to indicate a raw fed cat would never get IBD. I was wondering if I had just tried harder to get them back on a raw diet maybe Zara wouldn't have gotten IBD.

After doing a lot of online research though I had come to question the assumed role of diet in IBD. Given that the recommendations for what the best diet for an IBD cat should be are all over the place, raw, novel protein, limited ingredient, highly digestible, low residue, it really seemed to me that the whole diet connection was questionable. Some cats seemed to do better with a certain diet but most of those cats also received some medicinal treatment also. So how much did the diet change help and how much did the medicine help?

There is convincing anecdotal evidence that a diet change alone, not always to a raw diet, can have a dramatic affect but we don't know why. Recently I've really wanted to know if there had ever been a cat fed an exclusively raw diet it's whole life that developed IBD. And here you have posted the answer to that question! If there is one cat like Leroy there is likely to be more. So maybe a raw diet isn't the magic bullet for IBD some think it is, at least not for all IBD cats.

Of course we don't yet know if Leroy has IBD, right? If the ultrasound shows a thickened bowel, your vet might recommend a biopsy to determine if there is lymphoma which can cause the thickening. If lymphoma isn't found, they diagnose it as IBD. Which basically means "There is bowel inflammation and we don't know what's causing it so we're going to call it IBD." Then we start throwing steroids at it to treat the inflammation and start guessing about what diet changes might help.

Like I said, I've been questioning whether diet actually plays a role in IBD given the contradictory evidence on what diet change helps. Lately an unhealthy intestinal microbiome has been suggested as the culprit. I've been giving Zara and my other cats a probiotic to see if that can keep her healthy. It's hard for me to know whether or not it has helped her though. She responded very well to the early traditional treatment (prednisolone, Flagyl, etc) but her case became complicated and she was given so many additional meds over a long period of time that it's difficult to say at this point what has helped her. For the most part her IBD symptoms have been well under control for several months. At this point I'm trying to find what will keep her that way. I'm hoping it will be the probiotics. On the assumption that diet isn't as important as thought, she is on a part raw, part canned diet. I would have her on a 100% raw diet but she still isn't fully accepting it.

 

[LTS3]

Recently I've really wanted to know if there had ever been a cat fed an exclusively raw diet it's whole life that developed IBD. And here you have posted the answer to that question! If there is one cat like Leroy there is likely to be more. So maybe a raw diet isn't the magic bullet for IBD some think it is, at least not for all IBD cats.

I had hoped a raw diet would prevent heatlh issues Like many others, I fed my first cat commercial dry food, a supposedly premium brand. Then he got diabetes and had to be put on commercical canned food and I discovered Catinfo.org. When he passed away, I vowed to feed only raw to future cats. Now I have Leroy who has only ever eaten NV raw and he has digestive issues

Would a recipe have been better for Leroy? Would giving Leroy digestive enzymes and probtioics over the years have helped prevent digestive issues? There are so many "what if" questions

Of course we don't yet know if Leroy has IBD, right? If the ultrasound shows a thickened bowel, your vet might recommend a biopsy to determine if there is lymphoma which can cause the thickening. If lymphoma isn't found, they diagnose it as IBD. Which basically means "There is bowel inflammation and we don't know what's causing it so we're going to call it IBD." Then we start throwing steroids at it to treat the inflammation and start guessing about what diet changes might help.

Someone on the Yahoo IBD baord mentioned that. IBD symptoms are the same as for lymphoma. Only a biopsy would tell. I'll have to ask the vet about that and if we can include a biopsy with the ultrasound.

 

[mschauer]

Would a recipe have been better for Leroy? Would giving Leroy digestive enzymes and probtioics over the years have helped prevent digestive issues? There are so many "what if" questions

I've trying to stop beating my head against a wall trying to understand. There are just too many unknowns. One thing I really wish is that Zara could describe her symptoms to me. Like when she doesn't eat as well as I think she should is it because she feels bad or because she doesn't like the food? That would help a lot.

Someone on the Yahoo IBD baord mentioned that. IBD symptoms are the same as for lymphoma. Only a biopsy would tell. I'll have to ask the vet about that and if we can include a biopsy with the ultrasound.

I don't think the two procedures would be done together. An ultrasound is done by an ultrasound technician. A biopsy is a surgical procedure and would only be done if the ultrasound shows thickening of the bowels.

 

[mschauer]

###### messed up post #######

 

[LTS3]

I don't think the two procedures would be done together. An ultrasound is done by an ultrasound technician. A biopsy is a surgical procedure and would only be done if the ultrasound shows thickening of the bowels.

I figured since Leroy has to go for an ultrasound, why not schedule a biopsy for the same day if possible? The vet did comment on thick bowel loops when he was prodding Leroy But he quickly said that they could just feel thick because Leroy had lost weight. He didn't want me to worry too much.

 

[lisahe]

It's so true about all the unknowns: like mschauer I also wish cats (especially ours who sometimes gets picky) could tell us what their issues are! (Well, not all their issues since I'm sure some of them are with us... like why don't you feed us whenever and whatever we want.) And then there are all the "what if" questions that are so hard not to ask.

LTS3 , I hope the test(s) (whatever you opt to have done) go(es) well and you're able to both figure out what's causing Leroy's weight loss and how to help Leroy gain his weight back and feel better.

 

[lisamarie12]

Just wondering how Leroy is managing? Did he have his ultrasound yet?

 

[LTS3]

The other thread is up to date: Ibd / Digestive Issues