Raw For Ibd / Digestive Issues

LTS3

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I know raw diets can be great for cats with IBD and other digestive issues but does the type of raw diet matter? Is a recipie like the one at Catinfo.org better than a commercial brand that may include veggies and fruits and other things?

Leroy has possible IBD :frown: He went to the vet earlier this week. Originally it was for a possible dental issue but the vet was more concerned with Leroy's weight loss since September (a pound) and recent frequent vomiting of clear liquid. His stomach also gurgles. Loudly :eek2:Bloodwork was done and results are normal. B12 was tested and it was on the low end of the normal range and the vet said he prefers it to be higher.

Vet seems pretty sure it's IBD. Leroy has an ultrasound scheduled in 2 weeks. In the meantime, I'm giving liquid Pepcid and I'm going to start B12 injections this weekend. I have to pick it up from the vet hospital. The Pepcid seems to be helpful. Two doses so far and no puddles of liquid on my floor and no lip smacking or tummy gurgles:clap2: I'm going to start Leroy back on probiotics but one with S. boulardii. Vet said it was fine to use probiotics.

I know the vet wants to try a LID diet. I really want to stick with raw. Leroy is currently eating NV frozen raw medallions with a spoonful of raw / Alnutrin mixed in. I'm using HT chubs. My last batch was with Blue Ridge chicken (store didn't have HT) but Leroy oddly got an allergic reaction to it (bald oozy red spot on head) even though he's eaten Blue Ridge in the past with no issue.

Could I stick with the current raw or would I have to completely change it to a recipe? Leroy pretty much eats anythng so I'm not worried but Emma is more finicky. I would prefer to have both cats eat the same food.
 

Furballsmom

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Hi, a thought that blue ridge changed something in that batch maybe... Anyway if you don't mind me saying so I like your thinking and what you're doing. I feel like the formula is less important than them eating it but you lucky person you're not having that issue. Plus it also somewhat depends on your time. You'll know with some certainty if your approach with him is working by the time you need to go in again. Hang in there and good luck!
 
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Neo_23

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From what I have read it may be best to avoid bone for IBD kitties. I'm not certain of this, but from what I know bone may be a bit difficult to digest, so if your kitty is having diarrhea or vomiting, you might try feeding a raw recipe without bone. The most popular commercial one is Rad Cat. They have a little blurb about IBD on their website: Rad Cat Raw Diet Premium Raw Food For Cats
 

Neo_23

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Oh, and I meant to ask you, which s. boullardi probiotic brand are you thinking of getting? And will you give it alongside another probiotic with other strains? Just curious to know because my kitten has digestive issues as well.
 

Furballsmom

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By the way there are several threads on this site with the keywords raw, alnutrin and ht chubs et sl if you're interested in discussions on various raw foods of that nature/type.
 
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LTS3

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Leroy won't eat Rad Cat:sigh: I've tried it in the past. I can try boneless raw with a pre-mix again. It never really filled Leroy's tummy up in the past, though :dunno:

I bought Nexabiotic Saccharomyces Boulardii Probiotics 10 Billion CFUs (Just S boulardii) along with Renew Life Ultimate Flora Extra Care 50 Billion CFU. It won't arrive until next week sometime.

I've looked at various web site and most agree that a commerical cat foods is a culprit in IBD and other digestive issue. Leroy has been eating raw his entire life. Is it possible for a life long raw fed cat to develop IBD? I haven't seen an answer to that anywhere.

One web site says that IBD can be a caused by a food allergy which is possible in Leroy's case. The Blue Ridge gave him the current (now healing) bald spot on his head. Another brand of a complete raw food caused the same reaction.
 

Neo_23

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Leroy won't eat Rad Cat:sigh: I've tried it in the past. I can try boneless raw with a pre-mix again. It never really filled Leroy's tummy up in the past, though :dunno:

I bought Nexabiotic Saccharomyces Boulardii Probiotics 10 Billion CFUs (Just S boulardii) along with Renew Life Ultimate Flora Extra Care 50 Billion CFU. It won't arrive until next week sometime.

I've looked at various web site and most agree that a commerical cat foods is a culprit in IBD and other digestive issue. Leroy has been eating raw his entire life. Is it possible for a life long raw fed cat to develop IBD? I haven't seen an answer to that anywhere.

One web site says that IBD can be a caused by a food allergy which is possible in Leroy's case. The Blue Ridge gave him the current (now healing) bald spot on his head. Another brand of a complete raw food caused the same reaction.
What do you think about supplementing some enzymes? I have read that they can be quite helpful with digestive issues. Actually, I think the main reason people say that raw food is good for IBD is because it has natural enzymes (they are destroyed when cooked). I was thinking of getting a probiotic/enzyme supplement.
 

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Absolutely agreeing with you regarding canned however to me it can get sticky when considering all the nutrients a cat requires. I'm not gutsy enough to go all raw, so I introduced primal frozen in addition to his commercial food. I would definitely think that raw formulas can cause allergies, which would be one large reason to go with a recipe where you have more control over the ingredients. (I just can't make that shift myself yet but I'm guessing my "day" for it is coming.)
 

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I've been feeding homemade raw for several years. I can't say that we've dealt with IBD specifically, but occasionally we've dealt with upset tummies.

Pepcid has been an good quick fix on occasion, but I've had more success with probiotics. The Nexabiotic was a good one, and there is another that I've gotten through Mercola.

Something else that seems to have helped is that I've been adding a dollop of "egg soup" to their meals. I separate the eggs, yolks from whites, cook up the whites, chop them up into tiny bits and let cool, then add back to the yolks and stir it up. I do 3 eggs at a time and keep it in a little container in the 'fridge. I think the yolk is soothing to their tummies, full of vit B and other nutrients, and the cooked whites are a gentle, low phosphorous source of protein.
 
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LTS3

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I guess my main questions are:

  • Do I need to chang the raw diet from NV to a recipie which is "bland" (no extra stuff)?
  • If raw is a great diet for all cats because it's highly digestible, doesn't cause irritation to the GI tract, etc as many web sites say, is it possible for a life long raw fed cat to even develop digestive issues? Does the type of raw diet a cat eats for a long time have any role in digestive issues? Leroy has only eaten NV raw along with some raw / Alnutrin. If I had fed him, say, Dr. Lisa's recipe instead, would he still have developed digestive issues?
I can add a digestive enzyme to my Amazon order. I know the vet would be fine with it. I know Prozyme is a popular one but is it a good one?
 

Furballsmom

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In my opinion there's no way to know the answer for your second question, because every cat is different. On the first point, if I were you and also had the time etc I'd try it because there again you won't know how his system reacts until you try it being sure to give him all the nutrients he needs. :) I have no experience with your third question and will defer. Hang in there!
 

Neo_23

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The only reason I might think that homemade raw like Dr. Pierson’s recipe is more easily digestible than commercial is because you control the amount of bone material that goes into it and also can see what the meat looks like before it is ground up (you know a little more about how it was handled and the source). Actually Dr. Pierson has a little blurb on her site about how many commercial raw foods have way too much bone.

But, this isn’t to say that you should think your kitty developed issues just because you fed commercial. I think it’s far more complicated than that and IBD is caused by a host of factors, some may be genetic.
 
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LTS3

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I just ordered Dr. Goodpet Feline Digestive Enzymes from Amazon. It says to give 1/2 teaspoon per cup of food. For approximately 1.5 oz of food twice a day (not including the Raw Bite snacks), how much of the digestive enzyme would I give? 1/8 teaspoon? Less?

Would boneless meat with a pre-mix be ok? I really don't want to buy a grinder, not that I even have space in the kitchen to store one.
 

Neo_23

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I think a pre mix would be fine. Or you could use Dr. Pierson’s recipe with bone meal or eggshell powder (she explains how to do it on her site).
 

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IBD in humans at least is genetic. It's an autoimmune inflammatory condition and there are lots of factors (and many aren't well-understood) that play a role besides genetics. So I think it would still be possible for a raw-fed cat to develop IBD if he was genetically predisposed. Of course, it's also possible that IBD works differently in cats vs humans, in which case I have no idea. :dunno:
 
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LTS3

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Leroy's an Abyssinian, a breed that is prone to having a sensitive stomach. I was Googling and it seems that IBS is fairly common in Abys and other purebreeds.

I requested a sample of EZComplete. It's a lot easier to use than Dr. Lisa's boneless recipie which includes skin. Where do I get skin if I use a novel protein? Or do I even need skin if I use a novel protein? There's good info on the EZComplete web site about IBD. I can't find calorie content for a serving of raw made with EZComplete:confused2: Does it depend on the type of meat used?
 

1 bruce 1

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Hi LTS!

Sorry your guys are having problems.
I have an IBD cat, raw fed for a long time and one day it just did not work for him anymore; random diarrhea mixed with random constipation. We switched to boneless and it didn't work for him, either. Straight kibble (novel LID) caused a fire hose of diarrhea (TMI, sorry).
We did however figure out that a cooked diet sets well with this particular cat, as do a few brands of good food (canned). He seems to handle raw organ meats (liver, kidney, spleen) as well as heart (a muscle, not an organ) very well. He also seems to do very well with raw green tripe finely ground. But plain muscle meat, not so much and bone inclusive--no way.
This isn't to say your little guy will do well with these organ/tripe inclusive foods with other options, but so far our guy is doing good with them. Liver seems to loosen him up if he's a bit "stuffy" (so to speak <g>) and the tripe seems to set well with him...whether or not it's the enzymes (digestive) that help or what, I don't know.
He doesn't seem to love beef or any related larger game meats (elk, venison, etc.) as much as poultry, so we stick with chicken, turkey and duck (when available.)
I've also noticed that our cat with IBD seems to handle any fresh or fresh-type (canned, tinned, etc.) best if it's left to room temp vs. cold out of the fridge! He also seems best when fed a few smaller meals vs. 1 or 2 larger meals per day.
I'll happily second the others that say what works for one cat won't always work for another. What works for our boy might not work for yours but maybe (hopefully) it will give you some ideas to consider.

Weirdly enough we had a dog with a raging case of IBD, one of the worst cases the vet had seen and raw kept this dog regular, allowed the dog to gain and maintain weight, etc. The only thing he couldn't handle was too much organ meat and grains of any sort. It was a joy watching this dog eat, handle it well, feel good AND enjoy that food.

With that said, we've known some cats that do very well on prescription diets or novel protein sources (LID in nature) if all else fails. (A fellow cat fanatic has an ailing cat that did poorly on most diets but seems to be doing very well on a prescription diet...rabbit, I believe.)
It's so strange that raw worked for our dog but did not for our cat even though they had the same problem.
As the others said...what works for one might not work for the other. Trial and error. It sucks but it can be done!

Wishing you the very best!!
 

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IBD in humans at least is genetic. It's an autoimmune inflammatory condition and there are lots of factors (and many aren't well-understood) that play a role besides genetics. So I think it would still be possible for a raw-fed cat to develop IBD if he was genetically predisposed. Of course, it's also possible that IBD works differently in cats vs humans, in which case I have no idea. :dunno:
This is what I've been told as well. There's a genetic link in some dog breeds for things like cancer, hip dysplasia, cardiac problems, right down to allergies, and IBD isn't exempt unfortunately. This is true in dogs and true in cats too, purebred or not.
Our cat affected with IBD and other inflammatory conditions, ranging from mildly annoying to life threatening, is a mutt cat. He wasn't purposely bred but seems to have been dealt a really cruddy hand in the genetics category. I do think being genetically predisposed plays a huge role. I've seen IBD and other conditions blamed on poor food, over vaccination or poor vaccine schedules, poor water quality, etc. etc. etc. and this cat has not been exposed to any of that. I'm not sure it can't make it worse (our cat didn't experience problems until well into middle age), and there's no real way of saying for sure he wouldn't have experienced these problems earlier in life had he not been given good food and had he not been treated by a competent vet who realized his problems and treated accordingly.

In that sense, our little cat has been a very good teacher.

It's very frustrating to have a pet that you do all the recommended things with, and avoid the potential pitfalls only to experience problems, which is why I agree so much with the genetic link. Frustrating, but a fact of life (it still sucks though!)
 
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LTS3

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I guess I'll have to try different dets to see what works best. I know the vet is leaning towards LID but I really don't want to feed commercial food :ohwell:
 

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Leroy's an Abyssinian, a breed that is prone to having a sensitive stomach. I was Googling and it seems that IBS is fairly common in Abys and other purebreeds.

I requested a sample of EZComplete. It's a lot easier to use than Dr. Lisa's boneless recipie which includes skin. Where do I get skin if I use a novel protein? Or do I even need skin if I use a novel protein? There's good info on the EZComplete web site about IBD. I can't find calorie content for a serving of raw made with EZComplete:confused2: Does it depend on the type of meat used?
Yes, the calories depend on the meat you use... a lot will depend on how much fat you include. Don't worry about skin; I don't remember specifics about the Dr. P diet but it's totally optional for EZC. Our cats do really well on EZ homecooked so I hope yours do, too, and like it. One great thing about it is that you can feed the food in whatever shapes and sizes your cats prefer. (Or you feel like making... and know they will eat.)

Fingers crossed that Leroy likes EZ!
 
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