questions about mixed wet & raw diet

irinasak

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Short story: Do any of you fed wet & raw? If yes, how does it work out? Is it 50%-50%? Do your cats thrive? Are you were you want to be or are you going toward 100% raw?

Very long story: I live in a weird country with weird prices. There is almost no decent wet food around, I order it from zooplus. I feed a total of 8 cats, 3 of my own and 5 in a feral colony. The story is about my own.

Harley and Amelie, born on the street, litter brothers, neutered, 11 months old, have herpes virus.

Harley has a permanent damage in one eye because of the herpes virus, has some tummy sensitivities (loose stool from time to time, did not identify the cause) and a very mild case of chin acne healing. Harley is 11.46 pounds.

Amelie is as strong as an ox. She is 9.25 pounds and she is keeping the herpes virus at bay. No chin acnea.

They both have l-lysine, 500 mg daily.

They LOVE raw food.

So the story is mostly about Sophie, thrown at the garbage after she was born, had ringworm and different other minor health issues, probably because of her poor immune system (she got the ringworm when she was 2 days old). She is now 1 year and 7 months old, spayed. She had a minor eye sensitivity and constipation. For more than a month she had fresh blood on her stool, 4 vets later, no one knew why and it stopped as sudden as it appeared, my guess is that the slippery elm bark helped her immensely. She is 7.93 pounds and she really doesn't like food. I have read Carolina's thread and LDG's thread about transitioning, and catinfo.org, so if Sophie was a kibble addict I would know what to do. But she is no addict. She doesn't like food that much. I have more brands than a pet store. And I am at my wits end. I have tried everything my mind could come up with. The only thing she seems to like is Thrive dried chicken (mind you that she doesn't like Cosma dried chicken that much, and she totally dislikes dried fish, dried duck, dried liver, dried beef).

I would like for her to gain the 0.88 pounds she lost the months while I transitioned her from free feeding to scheduled feeding.

Out of 8 cats, she is the only one that eats Bozita. She is the only one that doesn't eat most of the other brands the other 7 eat (Animonda, Grau). She also eats some Applaws, Schesir, Schmusy and Kattovit. With 2 complementary and 3 not so awesome foods, she still receives kibble. My guess is she eats about 140 kcal a day and she is at steady weight for 3 months now. She had blood work done and except for a very low amylase level, all is ok. Vets say she is at the lower end of a normal weight. I even tried peritol for appetite enhancer, she ate better only while on the meds.

I have seen major improvements in Sophie since she eats more wet - no more constipation, no more shedding. I am positive that a raw diet will be much better.

I can't do an all raw diet yet (already long thread, will mention the reasons later if relevant). I am thinking about something like 50% wet 50% raw for Harley and Amelie, and whatever Sophie wants for herself. I will balance the diet for H & A, but what do I do with Sophie? Is dry, wet & some raw too much for her tummy? She had a handful of raw chicken several night ago, but sprinkled with dried chicken
No way will she try bones or organs. I am so so at loss with her. I know I am paranoid and exaggerating when it comes to Sophie, but I would just like to see her eat something she really likes and put some muscle on that skinny body.

ETA: I can not find FortiFlora, I think I will have to make an ebay or amazon account and order it. I do not know what bonito flakes are, but other than these two, I have tried it all: parmesan, baby food, sprinkled kibble. The only thing that Sophie seems to somehow like is Thrive freeze dried chicken and some horrible treats with milk and yeast from gimpet. My vet gave me all sort of vitamins and pastes highly palatable for cats to try on her. Yes, highly palatable for Harley and Amelie, not for Sophie.

We do not have any commercial raw food.
 
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awaiting abyss

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I feed raw with wet food to my kitten. He's doing great on it. I feed whole mice. I'm not sure if I will switch him off of wet food. It really depends on how many mice I breed.
 

ritz

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A number of us feed raw (frankenprey/prey model role/commercial raw), and sometimes good quality wet if, for example, we forget to defrost raw or we get home late or well, life happens.
Ritz tends to throw up, especially when she hasn't eaten for 12 hours (due to my work schedule)--it's a build up of gastric acid, I think. Sometimes I've simply fed her more raw, and she's thrown that up as well. She won't touch reconstituted freeze dried food (and this is a cat who loves chicken heads).
Being I'm somewhat of a pureist and am paranoid that she might become once again a Fancy Feast Classic seafood addict, I don't feed her canned wet food (ever). That said, when she is having a throwing up episode, I do feed her baby food, the kind that only has meat and water/broth (no cornstarch/salt/garlic). I'm not sure you can get that type of baby food in Romania.
Bonito flakes is basically dried flakes of, usually, tuna. While I have ordered it from Amazon (when I was helping socialize a feral cat), I found it at a much cheaper price in an international supermarket. Bonito flakes are used in some Asian (Phillipino) recipes.
Finally, I would NOT mix dry food with wet/raw because of the differing way cats process dry/wet food. I suppose you could feed wet one day and dry the next--but not in the same meal, certainly.
 

maewkaew

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 I feed a combination of raw and  decent canned ( American brands but probably similar to some of them like animonda carny) ,  I've done that for years and it works fine for my cats,  though I may someday  go to homemade raw.   ( I feed commercial raw frozen)

 I started doing that when I had a cat with inflammatory bowel disease.    The veterinarian recommended the canned Natures Variety Instinct venison (deer)  or duck or rabbit.  and I tried the venison and that seemed to help him.  Then I got some of the raw venison from the same company.,  and started feeding him that.  but he got constipated when he had that as his entire diet.   so I went back to feeding about half raw and half canned.  

 My other cats turned out to like it too,  though I gave them more variety in types of meat.    Anyway I just continued feeding that sort of diet.   It's not always exactly 50/50.

 They definitely do seem to thrive.  The cat with IBD did much better on this diet,  stopped having bloody diarrhea and vomit, and was able to gain weight that he needed to .     He also was helped by injections of Vitamin B-12.

  The young healthy cats are in great condition,  very muscular, lean, with silky, shiny coats ,  lots of energy.   Of course their health is what is most important to me  but I also show cats ,  and they have to be in top condition.  

It has also been good during pregnancy and lactation ,  and for kittens. 

 I would be wondering if Sophie may have something like Inflammatory Bowel Disease.       wonder if she might do well on a "novel protein" -- if you could get her to eat it!

  I have really found the Fortiflora handy in tempting cats to eat. 

 I hope you can find something that works for your Sophie.

P.S.  I also have a cat named Amélie . 
 
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tiliqua

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Short story: Do any of you fed wet & raw? If yes, how does it work out? Is it 50%-50%? Do your cats thrive? Are you were you want to be or are you going toward 100% raw?
I feed wet and raw - I foster cats as well as my own so I don't bother switching fosters to a raw diet.  I can't see myself ever going 100% raw because of the fosters and because I have a busy schedule - I need to have the boyfriend or a petsitter feed somewhat regularly, so them having the canned option is nice and convenient.  I'd prefer if my 4 ate more raw than wet, but it seems like it is always it is a struggle getting multiple cats to agree to a diet!

Two of mine like raw and canned and eat meat and organs but I'm not convincing them that bone-in meals are food.  The other two are so enthusiastic about frankenprey or whole prey that they are turning their noses up at ground raw or canned meals.  I think that how much raw vs canned I feed will end up being mostly their call - I think the two cats would prefer never to eat canned again, but the other two might stay on more canned and ground raw.  I'm very happy with my cats weight and health, it would be nice to get them all eating the same menu items though!
 

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Some cats are just not as food motivated as others. Flowerbelle does love the idea of food, but when it comes to actually eating it, until I started feeding her on the counter, it was a real problem to get her to eat at meals.

Are you in a position to feed Sophie smaller meals more frequently?

Are you still giving her the slippery elm bark powder?

Given that cleared up the blood in her stool, I have a very strong suspicion that what you're dealing with here is inflammation. I agree with maewkaew - have you tried novel proteins with her? Venison? Rabbit?

And if she's got low amylase levels - has anyone suggested digestive enzymes? I don't know what's available there, but they may help her feel better AND help her put on some weight.

Also, have you tried probiotics for Sophie? Particularly an L. acidophilus supplement? When there's inflammation, there's often a bacterial imbalance in the gut, and L. acidophilus helps nutrient absorption - especially B12. It's helping a number of IBD kitties slowly, but surely, put on some weight. Look for a human supplement (it's OK if there are other strains in there like bifidobacerium or other Lactobacillus strains, especially if L. rhamnosus or L. plantarum). When Chumley was all "off," the vet had us put him on 10 billion CFU twice a day. That's a pretty high dose, and most use 5 billion CFU in the am and 5 billion CFU in the PM. That's what I give my kitties daily for maintenance.

Have you tried goat milk? Yogurt? Brewer's yeast?
 

goingpostal

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My cat went from a canned diet to mixed to all raw,  She gets maybe 1-2 cans of wet food a month, I keep a couple around in case we are gone in a hurry, forgot to thaw or I'm on death's door and my b/f is feeding the animals kind of deal.  Lately they have gotten more use as fill in when I try unsuccessfully to get her to try something new.  She doesn't seem to have any issue with wet one meal, raw the next but when I was switching her over to total raw I did a complete deal of each type. 
 

fhicat

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Once Jed is on raw diet, he seems to vomit out canned food when I try to mix it in. I keep around a few cans for just-in-cases, but it doesn't seem like that'll do any good.
 
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irinasak

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Some cats are just not as food motivated as others. Flowerbelle does love the idea of food, but when it comes to actually eating it, until I started feeding her on the counter, it was a real problem to get her to eat at meals. Same with Sophie. She seems pretty happy at meal times, but she gets bored easily. Not only with food, but with the action of eating. Every single noise, shadow, what seems to be like a noise or a shadow distracts her. It's like ADD. And she already eats ON the table, in a different room than Harley and Amelie.


Are you in a position to feed Sophie smaller meals more frequently? I will be at home starting with December 20, until the 5th of January. I am going to focus on her.

Are you still giving her the slippery elm bark powder? I gave it to her daily for 3 weeks, than I gave it every other day, now I give it to her twice a week (afraid it will interfere with nutrient absorption). She also receives Salmon oil daily (with a syringe, as she hates it) and Calo-Pet multi vitamins (which are highly palatable for normal cats. Sophie, of course, hates them).

Given that cleared up the blood in her stool, I have a very strong suspicion that what you're dealing with here is inflammation. I agree with maewkaew - have you tried novel proteins with her? Venison? Rabbit? As I replied to maewkaew, not yet. Sophie eats 90% chicken and just for a couple of moths she became willing to try Bozita (which is beef based) and Schmusy (which has some other proteins, like different combinations with salmon or turkey).
Again, thank you all for the replies and sorry for my lengthy posts.
 
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irinasak

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I was cooking today so I decided to give Harley and Amelie 50 grams (1.76 ounces) of chicken breast (just plain breast, no added bones or organs or anything). They are currently begging for more.

As I have tried in the past raw chicken breast with Sophie and did not have much success, I boiled some for her. She ate maybe 30 grams (1 oz) out of the 50 grams (1.76 oz) offered. Not bad, I guess.

I also have some turkey and some duck in the freezer, which I plan to cook over the next two weeks. Can I give them just a bite or two to see if they like it, or do I have to mix the proteins as I would mix the dry foods when introducing a new one?

I have read about beef and pork being too rich for them. How often (if at all) do you feed pork and beef?
 

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You definitely can give a bite or two, although I didn't really understand what you meant by mixing protein.

Jed likes pork, but only as a treat. He vomits if he had too much. Beef he wouldn't touch at all.
 
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irinasak

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By mixing the proteins I meant mixing chicken and turkey until they can have a meal of turkey, or mixing chicken and duck (when introducing a new food, you're supposed to mix the old food with the new food. I was wondering if I should do the same with raw. Btw, they eat chunks, not ground.)
 

tiliqua

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If you're giving raw chunks as treats I wouldn't worry about mixing it - just give it to them and see if they like it.  Keep to under 15% of the total diet.  Duck and rabbit should be good choices for cats.

Mine don't seem to mind what protein I feed them - they happily eat pork, beef, venison, boar, elk, lamb, bison, chicken, turkey etc. so I'm lucky.  I try to keep the red meats to 50% or less and offer lots of variety.  Lots of cats either don't eat some types of meat or else might throw it up, but you don't know until you try.  Chunks of meat are great for them to chew through if they will take it - who knows, you might find something that Sophie loves!

If they will eat it, you can also give chicken / duck necks or wings or small rabbit bones (always with the meat on).  A couple of mine LOVE chicken necks.  If you have organs / gizzards those are healthy snacks as well that wouldn't hurt to try.  As long as it is less than 15% of the total diet you don't have to worry about balancing it and it is great to experiment and see if the cats will eat different foods.  :)
 

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By mixing the proteins I meant mixing chicken and turkey until they can have a meal of turkey, or mixing chicken and duck (when introducing a new food, you're supposed to mix the old food with the new food. I was wondering if I should do the same with raw. Btw, they eat chunks, not ground.)
You can mix proteins. However, if you're trying to see if a particular protein is a problem, then mixing proteins will end up really confusing the matter.

I have one cat that if I feed a full meal of beef after weeks of not feeding beef, he'll wolf it down then vomit. But if I take a full meal and split it between the three cats he's fine. Then he can have a full meal of beef when he's not so excited about it. But otherwise, I can rotate pork and chicken meals without any problems.
 

turks rule!

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I feed Bozita too! And I get I from zoo plus. After much research , I found it to be the best wet food that I could find for my cat. I live in the UK at the moment.

Yes, I feed both wet food and raw. My cat has a small bowl of Bozita for breakfast - sometimes eaten, sometimes ignored. I feed this as an insurance against him not getting all the correct vitamins or minarals that he needs.

I see that you are living in Romania, you are very lucky as far as raw feeding is concerned! I used to live in Poland and I know that I could find a lot more diverse meats thuan I can in the UK.

So, my cat eats Bozita for breakfast, then two other raw meals a day. Chicken wing twice a week, liver and kidney(from diff animals rotated) once each a week, heart, gizzards , turkey, pork, lamb, venison , canned sardines, game mix from the farmers market-venison,pheasant and grouse. However am sure that your butcher can supply you with more things like lung and brain that we are not allowed in the UK???
 

turks rule!

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Oops, forgot to say he has duck as well. You said about mixing chicken with turkey. I thought my cat would never transition onto raw. I was feeding mainly chicken at the time. It turned out that raw was not the problem, just that he hates chicken!!!!

I had to buy fortifllora from the vets to put onto his chicken wing ( which my butcher very kindly chops up for me) but it is stupidly expensive . I have found that cheap dried Parmesan cheese in a little tub works just the same. It smells really strong and provides the stimulant that he needs to persuade him to eat the hated chicken wing!
 

ritz

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I routinely mix proteins in the same meal.  In fact, I find that if I feed Ritz a 'strong' meat like beef or venison after going 10 to 12 hours without eating, she'll vomit.  But if I first give her some chicken or turkey breast, and then give her beef/tripe/venison, then she'll usually not vomit.

A word about duck/goose:  they are very fatty meats.  It could be too rich for some cats, so start out with a small piece first and see how your cats handle it.

I can get a wide variety of chicken organs (as in:  if it is in a chicken, I can get it).  But much as Ritz loves the organs, invariably she'll throw them up because (I think) they are too rich.  On the other hand, she'll keep down chicken lungs (counted as a protein/meat, as I understand it) and a whole chicken head.  Go figure...!
 
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irinasak

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I guess I'll just offer different meats and see what agrees with them and what not.

Indeed, we have many meats here, and organs are easily found. Chicken, turkey, duck, sheep, lamb, guinea hen, goat, rabbit, pork, beef, boar, venison are available in hypermarkets, some more often than others, some more expensive, some not so much. I do not know of an organ that is not available here - brain, for example, is sometimes served at the cafeteria at my University, and it is just a regular canteen. I actually had no idea that in countries like UK you can not find lungs or brains. I do have my doubts about the quality of the meat (especially chicken which is known to be enhanced with hormones), but seeing how Harley and Amelie wolf down the raw I really want to do my homework and get on this path. Harley growls and hisses when he eats raw, he is so funny (I am sure he is trying to keep Amelie away from his food).

I would much rather stick with chunks, not with ground, as I would prefer to handle meat as little as possible. I find it quite disgusting raw, but I do not mind feeding it to the crew.

I do hope that I will find something that Sophie likes. It would be so nice to see her eat something and actually enjoying it.
 

tiliqua

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I hope you find something that Sophie loves!

I thought one of my cats was picky / not a great eater until I started offering him frankenprey meals.  He would nibble at ground raw and canned and ate kibble ok but he immediately LOVED almost everything I fed in chunks, especially gizzard, necks, mice...  he's filled out a bit on a frankenprey / whole prey diet and looks great, I really hope you find something like this for Sophie.  
 

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I don't mix raw with canned when I feed them, but I do rotate raw and canned at feedings. (Raw in the AM, Canned in the Afternoon & PM). My cats do well on it.
 
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