Questions about commercial raw

[Willowy]

I don't know if I consider the fat to be a big problem--when I give my cats chicken breasts they go for the fat first, and pull it off in a big chunk. But those are some huge pieces of bone! Probably the cats would just spit them out/eat around them but it's still alarming. Did you contact the company? Maybe they got a batch of coarse grind wrongly labeled as fine grind?

 

[ldg]

I'll contact them. :nod:

I'm not worried about the fat chunks either. They're just there to indicate how chunky things were in what was supposed to be a "fine" grind.

 

[carolina]

I don't know if I consider the fat to be a big problem--when I give my cats chicken breasts they go for the fat first, and pull it off in a big chunk. But those are some huge pieces of bone! Probably the cats would just spit them out/eat around them but it's still alarming. Did you contact the company? Maybe they got a batch of coarse grind wrongly labeled as fine grind?

They do not have a meat/bone/organs in course or even medium grind - only in fine grind. So this is definitely a quality control issue. Someone loaded the wrong blade in the grinder. I would contact them - and send the pictures with it :nod:

 

[feralvr]

that looks scary

:jaw: OMG - those are HUGE bone shards !!!!! Clinking ..... you mean clunking :lol3: SO glad you picked them out and thank you for sharing. I have been picking out bones too in any bone-in meats I am serving... BUT WOW those are very large YIKES !!!!!!

 

[ldg]

Well, good lesson. I contacted the company. The pork used to be only coarse ground. They thought it was all gone. Obviously not. They refunded my money for the batch. I appreciate that but.... it's kind of a bummer batches aren't tracked.

But one thing is for sure... I will NOT be buying any course bone-in grinds from anyone, anywhere!

 

[Willowy]

They do not have a meat/bone/organs in course or even medium grind - only in fine grind. So this is definitely a quality control issue. Someone loaded the wrong blade in the grinder. I would contact them - and send the pictures with it :nod:

The first time I looked at the site they did have coarse-ground pork as a choice (I looked right now and they don't have it). They still have some coarse-gound chicken. I'm not really sure why anyone would want coarse-ground? Even for dogs that size seems wrong. Either give them whole bones or finely-ground bones, not big broken chunks, IMO. But anyway, glad to hear they refunded for their mistake, and hopefully (it sounds like) they aren't doing coarse grinds anymore so there shouldn't be further trouble.

 

[feralvr]

Well, good lesson. I contacted the company. The pork used to be only coarse ground. They thought it was all gone. Obviously not. They refunded my money for the batch. I appreciate that but.... it's kind of a bummer batches aren't tracked.
But one thing is for sure... I will NOT be buying any course bone-in grinds from anyone, anywhere!

I am very happy that they refunded your money!!! As they should have after seeing that :shocker:!!! Well, that explains the situation. Odd that they don't have those coarse ground packages marked :dk:. I am just glad you are getting your money back :nod:

 

[ldg]

Odd that they don't have those coarse ground packages marked :dk:.

Yeah, or separated or something. :nod: My thinking exactly.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Ok, silly question.  WHAT were you mixing in to this "fine ground" mix in the first place?  Where you just mixing it with another protein when you noticed the "clinking"?  Just curious? 

 

[ldg]

NOT a silly question!

The meat/bone/organ mixes from Hare Today are not supplemented, like commercial raw foods are. So with the Hare Today grinds, Carolina and I purchased Alnutrin https://www.hare-today.com/product_...d=289&osCsid=262071c56199ce3d757eede432b0e086 to add to the meat/bone/organ mix. You use one scoop per pound. I dethaw the 2 pound bag, add two scoops of alnutrin and the smaller end of the recommended amount of water. I think Carolina refreezes some of the mix, because she's feeding three cats. I'm feeding 8, so I just keep it in the fridge and keep using it.

Now that I'm not introducing proteins, however, I'll probably start refreezing (or dethawing less), because I don't plan to feed the same thing all day.

...or at least I'm working in that direction. :lol3:

 

[carolina]

I am posting this here as I know several feed Nature's variety Raw, and this ingredient is in all their formulas:

Hi fellow holistic cat food feeders,

I just heard back from Nature's Variety Instinct and I have some bad news that I thought may be worth sharing. They use the dangerous type of Montmorillonite Clay in their dog and cat food, i.e. sodium Montmorillonite Clay also known as Bentonite. They claim that it is in only 2% of the food, however in the canned formulas its the 6th ingredient so I'm not sure how accurate that is. In case your not familar with sodium montmorillonite clay it used in cosmetics, plaster, cat litter and cement tiles to name a few. The "healthy" type of montmorillonite clay is calcium montmorillonite clay which is used as a detoxifer and to treat many ailments such as diarrhea, stomach ulcers, anemia, etc. because of its high mineral content unfortunately that's not what they're using.

We've put the picky eater on kitten food to help her gain weight and found out that she likes her red meats better than poultry so were feeding her venison and/or beef at the moment. I came across Before Grain and Merricks canned food and I am pretty content with them for holistic brand with not so many fruits and veggies.http://www.thecatsite.com/t/241447/ive-decided-to-go-grain-free#post_3176934

Example:
Nature's Variety Chicken:
Ingredients
Chicken, Raw Ground Chicken Bone, Turkey, Turkey Liver, Turkey Heart, Apples, Carrots, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseeds, Montmorillonite Clay, Chicken Eggs, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Dried Kelp, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Salmon Oil, Olive Oil, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Persimmons, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Inulin, Rosemary, Sage, Clove.

Organic Chicken Formula:
Ingredients
Organic Chicken, Organic Chicken Liver, Organic Chicken Heart, Raw Ground Organic Chicken Bone, Organic Chicken Eggs, Organic Bok Choy, Organic Carrots, Organic Apples, Organic Pears, Montmorillonite Clay, Organic Persimmons, Organic Flaxseed Oil, Organic Yogurt [Organic Milk, Organic Skimmed Milk, Fructooligosaccharides, Pectin, Live Yogurt Cultures (Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Bifidobacterium Animalis, Enterococcus Thermophilus, Lactobacillus Bulgaricus, Lactobacillus Casei)], Organic Alfalfa Sprouts, Organic Parsley, Organic Blueberries.

 

[feralvr]

OMG- :jaw: Thank you, Carolina for posting this. That is terrible news as this was the only raw food Pipsqueak would eat - the NV Organic Chicken. I am going to return the unopened bag I have in the freezer too. Thank you very much.....

 

[ldg]

Nerdrock, who works for Nature's Variety, checked with her supervisor. The person who posted the information about the montmorillonite clay was WRONG. It is NOT sodium montmorillonite clay, it is calcium montmorillonite clay in Nature's Variety products:

That's odd that you were told it was sodium and not calcium, I was told the opposite in my training... I'm going to email my supervisor and double check though. 

EDITED TO ADD: I just got word back from my supervisor, it is NOT sodium montmorillonite clay that is in Nature's Variety. It IS calcium montmorillonite clay. 

 

[feralvr]

Nerdrock, who works for Nature's Variety, checked with her supervisor. The person who posted the information about the montmorillonite clay was WRONG. It is NOT sodium montmorillonite clay, it is calcium montmorillonite clay in Nature's Variety products:

OMG OMG THANK YOU, Laurie - you just saved my life BECAUSE I just posted in my thread. PIPSQUEAK JUST ATE A WHOLE NV ORGANIC CHICKEN MEDALLION FROM MY HAND . You know how awfully difficult this has been on my and the four P's. BUT now I think I have them eating the NV Organic chicken - they eat it readily from my hand now I am very much relieved to hear this news about the Montmorillonite Clay... :sun: :sun: :sun:

 

[ldg]

 

[numystic]

Well just to complicate things further on the Montmorillonite Clay front, I just received this email back from Nature's Variety when I asked about it...

Thank you for e-mailing!
Our Instinct Canned dog and cat food formulas are exactly the same. We formulated the Instinct Canned food for a cat's diet, so it would be sufficient for a dog as well. You can buy the bigger cans of dog food to feed your cat if you would like.

The Montmorillonite Clay used in our diets is the sodium variety.

Sincerely,

Shannon

Consumer Relations

Nature's Variety

1-888-519-7387

www.naturesvariety.com

 

[feralvr]

Well just to complicate things further on the Montmorillonite Clay front, I just received this email back from Nature's Variety when I asked about it...

Isn't that great too, that you can buy the large dog sized cans !!!!!!! What a savings!!!! :bigthumb: Yeah, I was relieved when I found out about the M.Clay!!!!!

 

[numystic]

Isn't that great too, that you can buy the large dog sized cans !!!!!!! What a savings!!!!

Yeah, I was relieved when I found out about the M.Clay!!!!!

I don't think you're understanding the significance of that email. 

She was confirming it was the supposedly BAD form of the clay. 

According to Carolina's post above it is the Calcium Clay which is the good kind and the Sodium clay which is the bad kind. 

Since second hand information that supposedly came from a NV employee was posted here contradicting this, I replied to the email asking her to please check with a supervisor since we are getting conflicting reports from different staff members. Just got this back in reply...

I confirmed that the Montmorillonite Clay used in our diets is sodium aluminosilicate.  This substance is generally recognized as safe for use at a level not exceeding two percent in accordance with good manufacturing or feeding practice.

If you can provide us with the link to the cat forum we can follow-up with our employee.

Sincerely,

Shannon

Consumer Relations

Nature's Variety

1-888-519-7387

www.naturesvariety.com

Grrrr… I am so frustrated. NV Instinct canned was the one premium quality line I found that my cats enjoy and I can afford. Evo's natural flavoring made them scarf and barf, and they hated BG chicken. Le Sigh. 

Up side I guess, is that my frustration with all this may finally push me to taking the leap to 100% raw. 

 

[numystic]

Sodium Aluminosilicate is an anti-caking agent used in products like Coffee Mate. (which may either give you comfort… or further disturb you if you don't put faith in the FDA)

Basically it's a molecule made of Sodium, Aluminum, and Silicon.

The most troubling there is the Aluminum. 

What is Sodium Aluminosilicate?

1960 Study linked Sodium Aluminosilicate to Renal Failure in Rats

Alzheimers Aluminum Toxicity (though the FDA states that there is insufficient evidence of this)

Just let me know if all this should be moved to it's own post as the use of Sodium Aluminosilicate M. Clay is certainly not limited to commercial raw. 

 

[ldg]

Which is why it makes NO sense that Nature's Variety would use it. I've PMd nerdrock, and I'm sure she'll get back to us again.

I have no clue why NV's customer service reps have bad information, but I hope the company will address it.