Problem with cats going to bathroom on rugs

[rocksexton]

It's now the 3rd month my sister and I have been at the new place. The cats (all males) have gotten along fine. However, a problem has developed. We had a large rug in the living room. We tried switching up the litter to pine litter when we first moved in, but my cats wouldn't go anywhere near it. One of them ended up going to the bathroom on that rug in stead. I immediately switched the litter back to Tidy cat and they resumed going back in their box.

I have since switched the litter to a wheat based litter and they've been ok with it. I tried keeping that rug in the living room, but they kept sniffing in that area. Last night one of them pooped on the rug, so I finally threw it out. Tonight I caught one of my cats urinating on my bathroom rug just a moment ago. This has never been a problem with them ever, especially the one I just caught doing it. The rug is literally a couple feet from where the closet the litter box is.

What could be the problem here?

We have two litter boxes. One is up in my master bedroom in an unused closet. The other is downstairs in the spare bathroom. They're both covered litter boxes (previously my cats used open boxes) and I noticed that the wheat litter tends to get a little pungent at times. I've always assumed the responsibility of cleaning the one in my room, but the one downstairs my sister takes care of. Although recently, she has been pretty lazy about getting to it. Should also note that my sister's cat tends to try to sneak in some munching time on my cats' food. That rug that he's urinated on is in the same general area as the food.

Can this factor into this?

 

[rocksexton]

I just caught my one caught doing it again on my bathroom rug. Seriously this is not like him. Have never had this issue before.

 

[violet]

One possible solution. Whatever litter you were originally using, the one that was working just fine, you might want to switch back to that.

I can also very strongly recommend Dr. Elsey's Ultra Precious Cat multicat cat litter. Petsmart sells it.
It's excellent clumping, dust-free litter. Good for kitties, good for your home.

Wash the litter box(es) thoroughly with a mild detergent, rinse very, very well to get rid of smells, but it would be even better if you got one or two brand new litter boxes. Do NOT buy covered boxes, and do not use plastic liners. (I mention liners just in case.)

Litter boxes need constant care otherwise cats find a cleaner area for their needs. (Perfectly normal.) And if they don't like the litter in the box.......well, you know what they do - go anywhere but in the box.

The rule to follow: 1 litter box per cat in the home + 1.

Scooping twice a day to be on the safe side.

 

[sarathan]

The only time my cats have peed outside of the litter box was when they had UTI's and crystals. Maybe a visit to the vet is in order?

 

[violet]

Good and very important advice from feline behaviorists who deal with these problems all the time:

Never, ever put a litter box in a closet. It has to be in an open, easily accessible area.

Also, important in a multicat home, the box should not be blocked in, the area where the box is placed has to allow entry from different directions and provide an "escape route" into different directions in case another cat shows up while one is trying to use the box and for whatever reason this cat wants to get out quickly.

In a multi-story home, to prevent problems, there has to a litter box on each level of the house.

Do not place litter boxes near household appliances such as washer, dryer.

 

[rocksexton]

Originally Posted by sarathan

The only time my cats have peed outside of the litter box was when they had UTI's and crystals. Maybe a visit to the vet is in order?

Isn't it hard for a male to get those?

BTW, did you notice any other behavior problems when they had them or differences in how they acted?

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by RockSexton

Isn't it hard for a male to get those?

BTW, did you notice any other behavior problems when they had them or differences in how they acted?

No. Males can get crystals just as easily as females, and while painful for both they are MUCH more serious in a male.

Stress, such as moving and litter changes can cause UTI and crystals in males.

Males can block suddenly, and once blocked die within 24 hours without vet intervention.

Please take your boy to the vet, he is telling you something is wrong, and the very first thing that needs to be investigated is his bladder and urinary tract health.

 

[rocksexton]

Originally Posted by otto

No. Males can get crystals just as easily as females, and while painful for both they are MUCH more serious in a male.

Stress, such as moving and litter changes can cause UTI and crystals in males.

Males can block suddenly, and once blocked die within 24 hours without vet intervention.

Please take your boy to the vet, he is telling you something is wrong, and the very first thing that needs to be investigated is his bladder and urinary tract health.

Ya, I'm going today .....

How do they get rid of them?

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by RockSexton

Ya, I'm going today .....

How do they get rid of them?

A cat can have a UTI, or crystals, or both.

A UTI is a urinary tract infection, bacterial. It is treated with antibiotics.

For crystals the type needs to be determined, struvite, or oxalate. Crystals in the urine are treated with a change in diet. It is very important to know what kind, before using a prescription food.

Once the urine is tested clear, an all canned diet low in magnesium and phosphorous may be tried, but if the crystals come back, the cat will need to remain on a prescription diet for life.

Sometimes stones can form, and they require surgery to remove.

I'm glad you're getting him to the vet. The vet should take a urine sample (usually straight from the bladder its called cystocentesis). I recommend you have the culture done, but many vets will start with an in house urinalysis, to check for blood and bacteria. A culture is more expensive and takes a few days but is needed to determine type of crystals.

 

[violet]

otto

Stress, such as moving and litter changes can cause UTI and crystals in males.

Litter change - crystals?

Stress - possible UTI or bladder inflammation without bacteria, yes. But crystals???

Any literature that mentions this anywhere? Would very much appreciate link. Thanks!

 

[otto]

Cats can be very particular about their litter boxes, and become stressed if they don't like the litter.

They also may avoid the litter until the last possible moment, holding urine is also very bad for cats and can cause serious problems.

Stress can cause the pH balance of the urine to change.

<edit> had my info backwards as pointed out by Violet (thank you) so will correct here so as to not cause unnecessary confusion

A urine that is too alkaline (high pH, above 7) can form struvite crystals.

A urine that is too acidic (low ph, below 6.4) can cause oxalate.



This is why it is always recommended to keep stress reduced for FLUTD cats. Feliway plug in diffusers can help reduce stress.

I forgot to mention to the OP, some feliway diffusers can help the cats adjust to all the changes.

I don't have any links at the tip of my fingers. This is knowledge I have learned over the years, having one female FLUTD cat currently, and a male who suffered from idiopathic cystitis years ago.

 

[violet]

Need to edit. Will be back in a minute

 

[violet]

Okay, I'm back. otto, I thought I had misread a couple of things in your last post, so I went back to reread. Anyway.....

Stress can cause the pH balance of the urine to change. A urine that is too acidic (high pH) can form struvite crystals.

A urine that is not acidic enough (low pH) can form oxalate.

Stress can cause the pH balance of the urine to change

Proof, please?

A urine that is too acidic (high pH) can form struvite crystals.

High pH is alkaline. Above 7.0

A urine that is not acidic enough (low pH) can form oxalate.

Low pH is acidic. Below 6.0 Oxalates develop in a very acid low pH environment.

(Water, with a pH of 7.0 is considered neutral – neither acid nor alkaline.)

 

[sarathan]

Originally Posted by RockSexton

Isn't it hard for a male to get those?

BTW, did you notice any other behavior problems when they had them or differences in how they acted?

No, there weren't any other behavior problems at all. It was JUST the peeing outside the box.

 

[rocksexton]

I took him to the vet. No abnormal temperature or anything. I explained the scenario and got them a urine sample, but won't know until tomorrow morning.

Regardless, I've been tracing back to when we moved into this new place and it has occurred to me now that he's had been urinating the entire time on the rug downstairs in the living room. I mean that thing was pungent when I decided to finally toss it ..... and since he didn't have that rug, he chose a new one.

Seems to really make sense now. Still good to check the urine regardless, but when I think about this move it was harder on him than the other two cats. He's very finicky about things and I knew that right away after we tried using pine litter. Prior to this move he was a cat that never went outside of his box. It was an open box and even if perhaps I didn't clean it on time he still went in there.

We'll see though. Hope this doesn't become a costly situation because times are a little difficult at the moment.

 

[ldg]

I might have missed it, but one of the "remedies" for peeing outside of the box (and one of the most important components of solving the problem, even if it is health based), is properly cleaning up. The first thing to do is to get a black light, and at night go through your home to make sure you find all the places kitty has peed (I always see it as orange in the black light, but others have said it shows up green).

Then you must use an enzyme cleaner. Nothing else will remove the scent to the cat's nose, and that's what matters. They are NOT all created equal. I've seen people mention Stink Free, I think, which can be purchased at PetSmart. We use Nok Out, which can only be ordered online. Another great one is Anti-Icky Poo, which I know can be purchased online, but I don't know if it's available in stores or not.

I don't know what kind of rug that was, but rugs with rubber backing always attract our Spooky. Those are typically bathroom mats though. We just have to make sure we get bathroom mats that don't have those backs.

 

[ldg]

Originally Posted by Violet

Okay, I'm back. otto, I thought I had misread a couple of things in your last post, so I went back to reread. Anyway.....

Originally Posted by otto

Stress can cause the pH balance of the urine to change.

Proof, please?

From Â[emoji]169[/emoji] 2002 The American Society for Nutritional Sciences J. Nutr. 132:1754S-1756S, June 2002

Supplement: Waltham International Symposium

Feline Reference Values for Urine Composition

Y. H. Cottam, P. Caley*, S. Wambergâ€:censor: and W. H. Hendriks(2)

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/6/1754S.full

...One factor that may have influenced the results in the present study is stress associated with the capture. The cats are likely to have been excited and stressed while being caught in the trap. In the stressed animal, the increasing activity of the sympathetic nerves and the adrenal glands will most likely lead to an increased metabolism, including catabolic conversion of proteins, which, in turn, increases sulfuric acid production and lowers urinary pH. However, the possible effects of stress are not easily distinguishable from those of long-term inanition and a thorough study of the effects of stress and excitement on urine pH in cats is clearly warranted. In contrast, it has been reported (7) that the urine pH of a cat increased by 1.4 U when transported from its normal home to a veterinary clinic. Buffington and Chew (7) concluded that the most likely cause was anxiety-induced hyperventilation (excessive panting) (alkaline urine is known to be caused by hyperventilation). Based on these results (7), if the urine pH of the cats in the present study was altered because of stress, this would indicate that our values are overestimates, which would seem unlikely.

This study has a detailed discussion of the pH and crystals issue.

Also http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16579769

Am J Vet Res. 2006 Apr;67(4):731-6.

Evaluation of the effects of stress in cats with idiopathic cystitis.Westropp JL, Kass PH, Buffington CA.

Department of Veterinary Clinical Sciences, the Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio 43210, USA.

Abstract

OBJECTIVE: To determine the effects of stress in cats with feline idiopathic cystitis (FIC) by evaluating bladder permeability, sympathetic nervous system function, and urine cortisol:creatinine (C:Cr) ratios during periods of stress and after environmental enrichment.

 

[violet]

Oh yes. I have a large number of articles and information in books on this subject. One problem with the articles is that not one can offer anything valuable when one is looking for a long-term connection in healthy cats. Urine pH changes constantly, many, many times during a single day and these changes are all temporary. It takes a lot more to make a cat sick than moving a cat to a different cage in a hospital for example which, according to an article, can bring on an increase in urine pH. Or taking a cat to the vet. Etc, etc, etc. Stressful situations have to be ongoing and intense, strongly affecting a cat to make a cat sick. When that happens, a cat does get sick I mean, one gets a far more satisfactory explanation from thinking about cortisol levels and looking for a connection there. Cortisol increases when a cat is stressed. When a cat is under constant stress and cortisol levels are elevated for a long time, this will have negative health effects. Lowered immunity and inflammatory response are just two of the several possible negative health effects. Inflammatory response is especially important for cats with urinary problems.

The other problem with most articles is that they focus on cats with idiopathic cystitis, not healthy cats. Two totally different situations. Not to mention that so-called idiopathic cystitis has some very real and correctable underlying causes that seem to be completely overlooked. Diet, food sensitivities, nutritional imbalances and individual requirements for certain nutrients, for instance.

When it comes to ongoing stressful situations, owners can do many, many things to protect a cat from stress it can't handle. Cats can be protected. Illness brought on by stress can be prevented. The problem is, many owners never even realize that certain situations can be terribly stressful for cats and so they don't do anything about them to make life easier for the cat. They don't think about things from the point how certain situations will affect their cat.
And from what I've seen, it never even occurs to a lot of people to look for information.

 

[rocksexton]

Yes, I'm up at 4am MST .... and guess what? My cat is now urinating in the litter box again. I switched his litter back to the Tidy Cat and removed the cover and it's back to normal now ......

 

[violet]

Oh this is great! Fantastic! I'm so happy for you!