Pre-purchase checklist for transitioning to PMR diet

[laralove]

Haha, yes! But very helpful. I get it. We don't know what's being lost through the various processes, so there's no way to definitively say what's missing. That makes sense. I'm going to start with Dr. P's recipe and look into swapping proteins periodically and how I need to adjust supplements from there. I tried giving him a chicken wing tip last night... he was unimpressed, so ground raw it is. We'll see where it takes us.

Thank you all so much! I ordered everything this morning. Will be here Thursday or Friday.

 

[mschauer]

I like to get as many nutrients as possible from animal sources also and so use as many different organs as I can find. But, using the AAFCO recommendations to compare against, I find I still have to add supplements.

 

[ritz]

I personally don't add supplements on a regular basis, but that's just me.
I do give Ritz Krill oil about three times a week, a very tiny amount, somes in a pill (I cut open the pill and put it on her food).
I also give Ritz a probiotic every day without fail; she throws up about once a week, and while I think it is due largely to build up of acid (going without food for 11 hours), I see no down side to giving her a probiotic.

 

[peaches08]

Haha, yes! But very helpful. I get it. We don't know what's being lost through the various processes, so there's no way to definitively say what's missing. That makes sense. I'm going to start with Dr. P's recipe and look into swapping proteins periodically and how I need to adjust supplements from there. I tried giving him a chicken wing tip last night... he was unimpressed, so ground raw it is. We'll see where it takes us.

Thank you all so much! I ordered everything this morning. Will be here Thursday or Friday.

From what I've gathered from this site, Dr. P's supplement recipe stays the same regardless of the meat used. The only thing that I do different from chicken thighs other meats is the bone vs eggshell powder.

This is not urgent, but something to think about for the future: I use Dr. P's supplement recipe but I also add Nutricology Immoplex Glandular and manganese. I have access to much in the way of organs and the few I tried literally the cats fled the kitchen and refused to go back in. So the glandular supplement helps take care of that. The manganese...to be completely honest I don't know the full story but I started adding it because mschauer and LDG use it. You will be fine not using these initially. I just want to mention them for your "wish list". If your cat will eat organs, you can write the glandulars off!

 

[laralove]

I'll add manganese to the list. He does eat organs. He had the turkey heart, liver, and kidney(?) from the Christmas turkey. He didn't take to it at first, but when I mixed it in with some raw chicken meat, he dug in.

 

[ldg]

Manganese is interesting. The AAFCO and FEDIAF recommendations aren't based on studies done in cats (FEDIAF lists a lower minimum recommended that the AAFCO).

The problem I had, not feeding ground, was how to supplement it, as it requires SO little on a per day, let alone per meal basis.

My solution was a homemade supplement that mschauer helped me develop. It's based off of the "recipe" by Dr. Becker in her book, Dr. Becker's Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats. I used it as a starting point, and mschauer helped me adjust amounts needed based on my goals and menu choices.

But really, this was the only way to include manganese. Of course, one can always just use Alnutrin (with or without calcium), or one of the other pre-mixes.

 

[laralove]

So I can't just buy Manganese capsules?

 

[peaches08]

I meant to say that I don't have much in the way of organs available to me. Darn phone.

They had kidney in your giblet pack? Wow, I've only ever seen heart, liver, and gizzards.
I buy my manganese capsules where I get all my other supplements, www.iherb.com. But I think Amazon has them too.

 

[laralove]

Ah, okay. Yes, it's on Amazon! Thanks.

 

[mschauer]

 
So I can't just buy Manganese capsules?

I think what Laurie meant is that you only need a tiny amount so it's hard to figure out how to add it to the diet. I only use 1 10 mg capsule for 10-12 lbs of meat and organs. I use MCHA (freeze dried bone) as my calcium source which I need a large quantity of so I put it, the manganese and all other supplements in a jar and shake it thoroughly to get everything distributed evenly.

 

[laralove]

Is there a risk of giving too much and causing health problems?

 

[obzilla]

 
Is there a risk of giving too much and causing health problems?

Obesity, maybe. Overfeeding is overfeeding.

But no, there is no inherent danger from overfeeding raw, than there is from overfeeding kibble, or cupcakes, or whatever..

 

[laralove]

 
Obesity, maybe. Overfeeding is overfeeding.

But no, there is no inherent danger from overfeeding raw, than there is from overfeeding kibble, or cupcakes, or whatever..

Oh, no. I'm asking about giving too much manganese. I just looked up how it can cause Parkinson's-like symptoms in humans. So I'm going to assume too much in cats could cause health issues as well.

I plan to prepare about 10lbs of meat at a time. Would 10mg be a dangerous dose for that amount?

 

[obzilla]

Oops, ignore above!

I cruised over the manganese bit. Sorry!

 

[peaches08]

Obesity, maybe. Overfeeding is overfeeding.

But no, there is no inherent danger from overfeeding raw, than there is from overfeeding kibble, or cupcakes, or whatever..

I think she meant the manganese.

 

[obzilla]

I think she meant the manganese.

Yeah, I caught it quick enough, but I can't edit my posts for some reason so..

Anywhoooo.....

 

[laralove]

 
Yeah, I caught it quick enough, but I can't edit my posts for some reason so..

Anywhoooo.....

I think you have to have so many posts before it lets you edit them. But no worries!

 

[mschauer]

 
Is there a risk of giving too much and causing health problems?

There are no known problems with over consumption of manganese (edit: in cats or dogs that is). I wouldn't go crazy with it though.

 

[mschauer]

Oh, no. I'm asking about giving too much manganese. I just looked up how it can cause Parkinson's-like symptoms in humans. So I'm going to assume too much in cats could cause health issues as well.

I plan to prepare about 10lbs of meat at a time. Would 10mg be a dangerous dose for that amount?

That is how much I use.

 

[laralove]

 
That is how much I use.

Gah. And you JUST told me that! XD 

You'd think that as a 31-year-old college student at a good university I'd be able to read! ._.