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- #61
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Pre-purchase checklist for transitioning to PMR diet
- Thread starter laralove
- Start Date
I think you'll find that as you get the logistics worked out that it won't take so long. I usually prepare about 60 lbs at a time and I've timed it a couple of times at about a total of 4 hours including clean up over the course of 2 days. The portioning is what takes the longest for me. I want the portion sizes to be fairly accurate so I don't over feed so I'm careful about measuring.
Ah! You said earlier that you are using Dr. Pierson's recipe but that isn't her web site. Her's is catinfo.org. The one above has a recipe very similar to her's but not exactly the same.
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- #63
Hmm. Based on the note at the top of the page, I thought this was her's as well, just a cleaned up version, as the catinfo page is a mess. (I have a thing about organization.)
Nope, completely different web sites run by different people. In fact, Dr P first got turned on to raw feeding by the web master at catnutrition.org.
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- #65
Ok... interesting. So the recipes look very close but she appears to use much less vitamins. And less water. I wish I'd halved the water from the recipe I used.
Yeah, I've often wanted to ask the two of them how they came up with their recipes. Like I said in my earlier post there will be differences in what raw feeders feed based on justifications each come up with since there is no single authoritative voice on how to prepare a home-made diet for a cat. Fortunately the recipes at both catinfo.org and catnutrition.org have been time tested and found to result in happy healthy kitties.
Dr. Pierson actually says her recipe is based off Anne Jablonsky's, she's just lazier and doesn't see the need for some of the ingredients - specifically, the glandular (though I don't remember the discussion about it).
I kept reading through www.catinfo.com and thinking, "well have I lost my mind?" LOL!
I do a little of both Dr. Pierson's and Anne's recipes. I use more egg yolks like Anne, etc. The recipes are very similar otherwise. after much thought since organs cannot be sourced here, I added the glandular supplement. Dr. P doesn't use it since the mad cow scare and I'm sure partly out of laziness. My cats are very good eaters but after adding the glandular supplement they started inhaling their food. And more water, oddly enough. I use at least 2 times the water Dr. P calls for. And they still drink water. I hate to think of how dehydrated they must have been before all this.
I do a little of both Dr. Pierson's and Anne's recipes. I use more egg yolks like Anne, etc. The recipes are very similar otherwise. after much thought since organs cannot be sourced here, I added the glandular supplement. Dr. P doesn't use it since the mad cow scare and I'm sure partly out of laziness. My cats are very good eaters but after adding the glandular supplement they started inhaling their food. And more water, oddly enough. I use at least 2 times the water Dr. P calls for. And they still drink water. I hate to think of how dehydrated they must have been before all this.
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- #69
I omitted the glandular. Here's what I think happened. I started with and based my purchases off of Dr. Pierson's recipe. Then, at some point, I ended up on the more concise page with Anne's recipe and thought with the reference to Dr. Pierson at the top that it was the same recipe, just without all the background and extra information. So when it came to time to make it, I didn't realize I was doing a different recipe than I intended; I thought I was just using a page that pleases my mild OCD. All the ingredients are the same except for the gelatin, but that does explain why I didn't have it. At the time I was a bit confused, because I had gone through the ingredients list like three times to ensure I was buying all the right stuff. But it makes sense now.
I'm glad both are mom tested and cat approved! Maybe I can find a medium between the two that strikes the healthy balance Oliver needs and achieves a texture that he likes. He's eating it now, though. Took him a few hours and some mixed in Fancy Feast for a couple meals to get there. All-in-all, however, a very fast and painless transition.
I may add some of the other recommended supplements in later batches. Just not in the budget right now.
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- #70
Anne's recipe calls for twice as much water as Dr. P, if I recall correctly. I don't like the texture it's created, and Oliver doesn't seem to like it either. Though he's adjusting. He drinks from his water dispenser regularly, so I don't know how necessary it is for him to have all the extra water in his food.
Maybe I don't need the glandular. I added heart, liver, and gizzards... though I'm not sure what, exactly, the gizzards are good for. I know they just count as muscle in the calculations, but I've read they're less nutritional/filling. I only got them for the hearts. I thought there'd be a greater percentage of them in the package.
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My cats seem to like the watery texture, they prefer everything good and sloppy. lf it's a little stiff when l package it up to freeze, l add hot water to it before l feed them.
The only way l use gizzards is to cut them in half and leave them in as chunks. l only buy hearts now as packaged hearts, because you're right, the mixed packs are quite skimpy on hearts.
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- #72
I will look for that next time. Someone in my local raw yahoo group suggested I offer him whole chicken necks. It's apparently a good first step in transitioning to PMR. So I'll have to look for that as well.
Something I found weird about Anne's recipe, and it may be in Dr. P's, is the instruction to grind the liver. Ugh. What a sloppy mess that made. I should have considered it before I did it, because I usually give liver a very rough chop when I feed it to him, because it just liquifies. I don't think that helped the texture any either.
I do worry, though, that the egg shells and what bone marrow I was able to scrape aren't going to be good enough, because I didn't get bone meal. So expensive! I'm really hoping I can get him to eat bones fairly soon.
Just being clear - you're not grinding bone and adding eggshell, correct?
Bone meal, generally isn't expensive. :dk: There are concerns with using it: it's typically from older animals, so it's thought there may be issues with toxins concentrated in the bones, and it is extremely high heat processed, so the benefit of any marrow is likely negligible.
Or are you referring to the freeze-dried bone, microcrystalline calcium hydroxyapatite? Because yes, that is expensive, though it contains all the benefits of the bone and marrow, and is produced from young animals. Well - all the benefits save the dental benefits of chomping bone. :lol3:
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- #74
No, no bone. Just egg shell. But I did crack open the thigh bones and scrape out some marrow before tossing the bones in the trash.
I just looked again. It's about $11 per lb but then they really nail you on the shipping. Wish I could find this locally. The recipe calls for 4 Tbsp for 3 lbs of meat. Assuming 32 Tbsp per pound, that's 8 batches of 3 lbs. I suppose that's not too bad. But I hadn't read about the issues you mentioned. Maybe I'll just stick with the egg shells for now.
How long have you been feeding raw with egg shells?
I just looked again. It's about $11 per lb but then they really nail you on the shipping. Wish I could find this locally. The recipe calls for 4 Tbsp for 3 lbs of meat. Assuming 32 Tbsp per pound, that's 8 batches of 3 lbs. I suppose that's not too bad. But I hadn't read about the issues you mentioned. Maybe I'll just stick with the egg shells for now.
How long have you been feeding raw with egg shells?
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It's 2 1/3 Tbl :
Eggshell would be cheaper though.
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- #76
I used Anne's recipe. Her's calls for a bit more of almost everything. I'll probably end up doing something between the two of them.
Oh, sorry. I didn't realize there was such a big difference in the calcium amounts in the 2 recipes.
Anne's is 4 Tbl for 4.2 lbs (3 lbs meat, 14 oz heart, 7 oz liver) though.
Anne's is 4 Tbl for 4.2 lbs (3 lbs meat, 14 oz heart, 7 oz liver) though.
I alternate between MCHA and eggshell, because I can't afford to feed 8 cats MCHA all the time. But mine are mostly older, and at this point, I like that the eggshell lowers their phosphorus load (a lot!).
Carolina feeds her clowder exclusively eggshell. It's been over 2 years now, and they're all doing great!
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- #79
Good to know! I'll worry less.
