Penny Turned Nasty!

[bobbie sue]

Previously, I had posted about our cat not letting us eat dinner in peace   http://www.thecatsite.com/t/334585/introduction-advice-with-a-behavioral-problem/0_100    but now.. something happened which upset me:

Something occurred this morning with Penny which I had not so far had to deal with, specifically I was trying to get her off the kitchen chair which has a cushion atop. I attempted to remove her by hand but she quickly turned her head (and I do know that she is angry when she does that.. and may nip) and kind of hunkered down. She was adamant and refused to budge. I again attempted it and she still refused. Not wanting to be nipped I then lifted the cushion to make her get off... and I was shocked that after she got to the floor, she suddenly and unexpectedly turned around and went to attack.... in a sort of sitting up position and baring her claws at me!!! I was surprised and frightened by this. I realize full well she is moody and can sometimes become angry if she doesn't get her way but this is too much for me.

Since I mentioned previously that she was let out of a car in front of my son 2 l/2 months ago... my intention at that time was to have her spayed and then let a "no kill" shelter put her up for adoption. The vet estimated that she is about 9 months old now.   We grew very fond of her but realized she is so unlike most other cats who come directly from a shelter at 8 - 10 weeks and had no prior history to speak of. This was our situation many years ago when we adopted two kittens at the same time from a well known shelter. I NEVER had this particular problem with either of them. I had absolutely no fear as I am having at this writing.

I had been in contact with this shelter letting them know we are not interested in giving her up but now... I have my doubts. By the way.... when we took Penny for a complete checkup again recently, the veterinarian saw that she was difficult to handle (which in itself is no big deal) but he made this statement that "as she gets older, she will be difficult to hand" and I didn't question his meaning (I suppose it is obvious) but I am beginning to see glimpses of behavior which I do not like at all. 

My husband and I are older and after having our two cats for 20 and 15 years respectively (and lovingly ministering to one who had epilepsy since she was 6 months old, cardiomyopathy, mass cell cancerous tumor removal) I feel I am ready to throw in the towel now. Penny is cute but... and there is a big but.... she is wild at times and I can now see she can turn (emotionally) on a dime, I find it difficult to cope with this latest behavior. I feel guilty for even considering giving her up to this shelter (and they are for sure a "NO KILL" shelter whose purpose is having cats they receive adopted out. Perhaps Penny needs the run of a large home and not an apartment such as we have. She will take off and run with a great burst of energy and speed throughout our rooms and one can quickly tell she was a "street cat" or semi-feral. I will soon be 72 years old, my husband is already.... and I feel so disheartened even considering this option but what else can I do???? That Penny has boundless energy bothers me not at all really but becoming vicious is quite another factor. 

Thank you for reading, I just had to vent and I feel so discouraged. 

 

[Columbine]

Hi, and welcome to TCS

First off, thank you so much for taking Penny in :bigthumb: She was so lucky to have found you.

From reading both your threads, it sounds like like Penny had some human interaction as a young kitten, but has basically lived a feral/outdoor lifestyle since then. Her behaviour and attitude towards people reminds me very much of the barn cat that I care for. Friendly and interested, but very much on her terms, especially when it comes to touch.

I'm almost certain that she reacted as she did today because, in that moment, you were an attacker/predator from her perspective. Remember that she'll have had to defend herself in a way that fully domesticated cats never have to, and she'll naturally be on higher alert for quite some time. Living in a home, safe from all threats, is still very new to her. It will take her a while to adjust.

Having said all that, you absolutely have to be able to move her when you want to. The best way to approach this is to make her think it's her idea Get a wand type cat toy (eg Cat Dancer/Charmer, Da Bird, a feather wand etc) - whatever she loves best, and use that to lure her away from her sleeping spot. You stay safe, she's happy, and you've achieved your objective. Her youthful exuberance will play right into your hands, as I'll bet she's always ready for a game

You could also look into clicker training her. Use high value, extra yummy treats (that are reserved solely for clicker training sessions), a feather wand to shape her behaviour (ie guide her off the chair, and a clicker (or even click your tongue - just use the same click each time). As she jumps off, you click and reward. As the action becomes fluent you can add in a cue word (such as 'off' or 'down') at the same time as the click. Eventually, you'll be able to use the cue word alone. You could teach her to jump onto the chair too - handy to repeat the exercise a few times in a row She's so intelligent sounding that I bet she'd love the added stimulation of training. Just keep sessions short and sweet - a few minutes at most.

Now I'm not saying you have to go down this route - just give you tools to help for right now. If, ultimately, you decide that she's not for you, then that's OK. Really. You might, though, want to consider being her foster family when she looks for a forever home. She'd have more continuity that way, and would likely find a home more easily. Most shelters would welcome an arrangement like that too. Just a thought

Lastly, giving her plenty of interactive playtime is a fantastic way to drain excess energy. A play session and snack/meal just before you start cooking would likely ensure you have peace and quiet to cook and hopefully even eat. I'm sure that would go a long way to easing tensions. An easy trick to ensure you don't have a fight for you chair at mealtimes is to put scrunched up tinfoil on the chair seats. She won't like to walk on that, much less lie on it [article="22407"][/article][article="32493"][/article][article="30493"][/article][article="32656"][/article]
shadowsrescue and @Norachan are two of the nany member here who have a lot of experience taming ferals and semi ferals. They may be able to give you some more pointers.

 

[shadowsrescue]

I have brought 2 feral/semi feral cats into my home with the most recent just 10 weeks ago.  It is definitely challenging, but it can be a very rewarding experience if you are willing and able to put the work into it.  Her behavior will not change on its own.

First she needs to know that she is safe and loved.  I always use the phrase "you're safe" with my cats.  Especially when they are stressed or afraid.  I repeat it over and over in a very soft and loving voice.  

Play therapy is so very beneficial.  It helps to tire the cat out so that the cat can then relax.  Play therapy also helps a cat to use it's natural hunting skills which in turn helps to boost confidence.  There is a technique called Hunt, Catch, Kill, Eat, Groom, Sleep.  You play with the cat using a wand toy, laser, or other toy that really gets the cat moving.  The da bird wand toy is usually a favorite!  You want to play until the cat is tired.  This means 5-10 minutes.  During the play time, the cat will "hunt, catch and kill" the toy.  After a tiring session, you want to give the cat a special snack or small meal.  It should be something extra special such as a few pieces of plain cooked chicken, a few pieces of tuna or some yummy wet food.  This will satisfy the "eating" part.  Cats in the wild will hunt, catch, kill and then eat their prey as a reward.  This is a crucial step.  Next, after a tiring play session and special snack/meal the cat will settle down to groom himself and then take a nap. This play session should be done at least 1x daily and more if needed.

I gather she also does not like to be held or carried.  This is very typical of feral/semi feral cats.  They are very afraid of being confined by a human.  This can come later after a level of trust has been built.  

Also if the cat knows you are afraid then this will in turn cause the cat to react to you.  Try your best to approach her with confidence and love.  If you are scared she will know something is wrong and her instinct will be to be on the defense.

There is a product called liquid Composure max that you can purchase on Amazon  or Chewy.com.  Chewy.com has the best price https://www.chewy.com/vetriscience-composure-max-liquid/dp/48692

It is a calming supplement that is  nonsedating.  Yet it calms the cats and helps them feel more comfortable in their surroundings.  I used to give 1/2 t. in the morning meal and 1/4 t. in the evening meal.  I did this for almost 6 months then gradually lowered the dose until it was no longer needed.  The bottle lasts a nice long time.

Playing soft music for her can help too.  I purchased a Cd of harp music for pets on Amazon a few years ago.  My cats absolutely love it.  
She also may not be used to human touch.  When working with the clan of feral/semi feral cats that I have, I start off by using a home made pet petter or even just a wand toy.  The feather wand toy  is something you can use to play with her and then when her back is to you, gently start to place it on her back so she gets used to touch.  I also have made one that uses a long wand or even a dowel rod.  I then cover the end with an old sock and just duct tape it in place.  I then wrapped a soft piece of flannel around it.  It can be used as a toy and then gently used to pet the cat.  Here is a picture of it when I was working with one of my outside feral cat.

Wand petting.JPG

• shadowsrescue
• Sep 18, 2015

Wand petting #2.JPG

• shadowsrescue
• Sep 18, 2015

Lastly, here is a great article on working with cats that are shy/scared.

http://bestfriends.org/resources/socializing-cats-how-socialize-very-shy-or-fearful-cat

All of this will take time and lots of patience.  She may never ever be a snuggly kitty or one that sits on your lap and enjoys pets.  Yet she will be warm and safe and loved in your home.

The first feral/semi feral cat I brought into my home almost 4 years ago.  He was so aggressive.  He was so difficult to handle as well.  He spent the first year inside in a room of his own.  We worked with him numerous times each day.  He is now the absolute sweetest cat.  He sleeps with us and loves to play.  Yet, he is hard to hold, does not like to sit on laps and runs and hides when anyone comes to the house.  Yet I wouldn't trade him for the world.

I wish you the best.

 

[bobbie sue]

Sending my sincere thanks to both ShadowsRescue and Columbine for speedy responses and such excellent suggestions and explanations, all of which sound terrific!  I am going to employ these and see which work since I don't want to admit defeat and give her up.... not without giving some earnest attempts.  We don't have difficulty at all touching/stroking her;  she is certainly not a lap cat nor can we hug her but she is always with us and since I am the one who mostly feeds her, she will come very close and sit by me when I watch tv.  In the mornings she is extremely affectionate too and longs to be petted and we do lavish our attention and love on her so she does feel very secure here.

Mainly, it is just when I am cooking and also at meal times when we experience this problem.... she feels she must sit on one of our chairs and refuses to get off.  I see she must be trained and I cannot expect her to change on her own since that won't happen.  Both of you are knowledgeable and now I realize that behavior modification is possible so, of course, I will try it.  I am sure glad I discovered this group and became a member.  

Again... thank you for all you have suggested and I will be giving an ongoing follow-up and hopefully will see progress.

Have a pleasant and peaceful day/evening.

Best wishes

 

[Columbine]

I know I said it before, but Penny is so lucky to have found you She sounds absolutely adorable too :heart3:

We'll help you as much as we can. Do keep us updated on her progress. Good luck