Pallina: Ibd And Pancreatitis - Advice Needed

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Antonio65

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Hi all,
I'm writing this maybe more as a vent rather than a request for help, but if somebody has any tip on the issue, it will be greatly appreciated.

Around mid-May my cat Pallina had a visit with a University professor to try and understand her issues, mainly the chest fluids that are still there, not increasing and this is a good news, and her gastrointestinal troubles.
During that visit they did an ultrasound scan that revealed the usual amount of fluid in her chest, and a slightly different texture in the right lobe of her liver, but nothing that would worry the doctors. They also took some blood from her and the results were bad.

Cholesterol 423 [95-130]
GGT 10 [<5.1]
AST 100 [12-56]
ALT 289 [30-100]
ALP 305 [25-93]
Total Bilirubine 1.93 [<0.26]
Amylase 1551 [365-948]
Creatinine 2.5 [06-1.8]
BUN 79 [43-64]
SDMA 25 [0-14]
fPLI 37.1 [>5.4 = pancreatitis very likely]

Potassium 3.93 [4.0-4.5]
Sodium 160 [147-156]
Chlorine 124 [112-119]

All these numbers led the professor to the diagnosis of a pancreatitis and cholangiohepatitis.
In the past, several tests made my vets think she has also a very likely IBD.
Pallina was put on some meds. Ursacol to try and lower her bilirubine, Metoclopramide (here sold with the name Plasil, but it's also known with the name Reglan elsewhere) to try to control her vomit, a few days of hypodermo fluids to hydrate her and ease her discomfort.
On my side I added some Vitamin B's supplement, the vet agreed it is good.
The hypodermo fluids course was 5 days long.
The Metaclopramide too was discontinued and replaced by Omeprazole in a gel to be given her once a day for three weeks.
Despite this awful condition, Pallina looked fine and alert.

After four weeks she suddenly started eating less and after a few days I ruled out the hot weather and thought something was wrong.
Pallina was sleepier than usual, not eating and drinking a lot.

On past Friday we had a pre-booked appointment with the same University professor for a follow-up of the visit of May. He saw nothing wrong, apart from some jaundice that was consistent with her hepatic condition. He took some more blood that showed that some levels have worsened a little bit. She had also lost 200 grams over a week time, she's 3.110 kg.

GGT 11 [<5.1]
ALT 297 [30-100]
ALP 288 [25-93]
Amylase 1551 [365-948]
Creatinine 2.43 [06-1.8]
BUN 84 [43-64]
fPLI 39.5 [>5.4 = pancreatitis very likely]

Potassium 4.18 [4.0-4.5]
Sodium 159 [147-156]
Chlorine 119 [112-119]

During the last weekend Pallina was too quiet, and on Sunday she slept a lot, would move slowly and threw up twice!
At 8 pm of Sunday she was in a terrible state, an hour later I was taking to the her regular vet at the 24h clinic. Of course her vet wasn't in, but everybody at the clinic knows her well.
She was alert and fine during the visit, but the vet didn't let her fool him and she was hospitalized for a few days. While there she peed, and her pee was as yellow as a ripe lemon, a consequence of her jaundice.

She was put on a drip right away with also antibiotic. On the following morning, Monday, her regular vet did an ultrasound scan and it was just like the one she had in May at the University. Only the pancreas area was a bit more reactive.

She was held at the clinic for 2 days and released on Tuesday evening with the following prescription:
Before the morning and evening meal:
-Ranitidine 0.2 ml
-Metoclopramide 1 ml

Once a day, after the evening meal:
-Ursacol (I think it's the same thing as Ursodiol)
-Marbofloxacin

Also a liver supplement with Sam-E during the day.

She's a little better now, but not 100% yet. She's slow, looks like tired or weak, don't know. She used to chase our neighbors' cat out of our lawn, now she just looks at her and does nothing.
Last night she threw up the liver supplement tablet..

I know that someone here has said something about Milk Thistle and Vitamin E for cat with IBD and/or pancreatitis.
Any advice?

Thanks to all of you who have read this far.
 

babiesmom5

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While doing some research this morning on a CKD support site, I came across a thread where someone said Denamarin made their cat vomit. But a similar drug, Denosyl was much better tolerated...no vomit.

Milk Thistle is an ingredient in Denamarin.

More info on Milk Thistle is on www.drdougkneuven.com.

Maybe something here may be helpful.
 
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Antonio65

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Thanks B babiesmom5 ,
What Pallina is taking has Milk Thistle in it, but I had understood that I had to supplement more of it, that actually doesn't make any sense, if I think about it.

The post that I had read in TCS read
"Yes to the Sam-E and Vitamin E, AND Milk Thistle. All three help the liver heal." and it's of yesterday.

Do you know anything about vit E?
 

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Vitamin E has potent antioxidant effect in protecting liver cells from toxic injury. The recommended dose is 30 IU administered orally once daily per the following article; www.Banfield.com/Empirical therapy in liver disease.

It also describes Milk Thistle's active ingredient Silymarin and says to give 20-50 mg/kg body weight/day.

www.petwellbeing.com/MilkThistle sounds good. It comes as a tincture in a small bottle. The reviews are good and they ship worldwide. While Pallina's supplement has Milk Thistle in it as a component, this sounds pure. Might check it out and ask your vet.

They have a "Kidney Support Gold" product I am going to check into myself.
 

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Oh MAN! Reading through your stuff, I have felt these exact things. My cat has about half of what your Pallina is going through. My baby, Mika, stopped eating and was incredibly lethargic. I'm a first time cat owner so I didn't know that if they stopped eating for 48 hours they develop fatty liver syndrome which can be fatal if not treated properly.

Mika had incredibly elevated ALT and ALP levels (675 & 588 respectively), really bad GGT levels (47) and her bilirubin was outrageously high (9.8) when I finally brought her in. We were prescribed antibiotics and Ursodiol which did nothing for a while. Her levels rose even higher (ALT 720, ALP 655, GGT 60, bilirubin 12) and I was actually told to that I should put her down because treatment wasn't working and her liver was failing. But I kept fighting. Mika was put on a liver protectant (Denamarin), the highest dose of Ursodiol possible for her weight, a different antibiotic, an anti-parasitic drug in case it was liver flukes (it wasn't but, I appreciate the vet covering all basis of every possible reason) and pain medication.

It was a MESS trying to get all that medication into her. A literal nightmare. I couldn't get anything into her alone and needed almost 3 people to help me medicate her. She still wouldn't eat and was getting weaker with basically every day. They bounced around a feeding tube but were scared to operate because they weren't sure she could handle the surgery. Mika was hospitalized twice (once at an emergency vet and another at the university vet) and each time she seemed to get better to only go down hill very fast.

What made things get better on our end was forcing her to eat. It was brutal. I have scars on my arms from Mika wiggling out of the towel and tearing me up to get away from being force fed. But it's what started the process that saved her life. I gave her kitten replacement milk since it has calories and mixed probiotics into it. She'd get about 36 calories from KRM. Then I'd try to feed her kitten food. It had more calories in it which is what they need to help the liver. Eventually, Mika got strong enough to eat on her own more and more. I was buying every flavor of pate from basically every brand I could to find one she would eat well. I became thoroughly obsessed with cat nutrition and counting calories for her. It took us a long time to get Mika back to eating even close to the recommended number of calories daily. Mika originally weight 3.4kgs and had dropped to 2.63 kg over the course of her issues (a month). She needed to be getting 160 calories daily but we worked our way back up to eating on our own and eating well. I supplemented when we got close by either force feeding her more KRM or treats when she would eat them.

I wrote a book, I'm so sorry. I just wanted you to know you're not alone in this. I can't comment on the IBD or the pancreatitis but anything on liver and gallbladder issues (plus the yellow pee and jaundice -- been there and we're still working through her jaundice), I am more than willing to help you with what I know!
 
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Antonio65

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I'm a first time cat owner so I didn't know that if they stopped eating for 48 hours they develop fatty liver syndrome which can be fatal if not treated properly
What I've been told by a vet is that HL occurs only whena cat has some fat in their body. If a cat is underweight or has no fat to use in their methabolism, then the HL does not occur.
Hopefully the vet was right!

Mika was put on a liver protectant (Denamarin), the highest dose of Ursodiol possible for her weight, a different antibiotic, an anti-parasitic drug in case it was liver flukes (it wasn't but, I appreciate the vet covering all basis of every possible reason) and pain medication.
We are using a liver supplement that contains Milk Thistle and other ingredients. I have to use ut for at least a month. We've been using this beofre, with poor results.
I would try to increment the dosage of Ursacol (our version of Ursodiol) and see if that helps.

They bounced around a feeding tube but were scared to operate because they weren't sure she could handle the surgery.
Pallina can't be put under for her liver conditions and for her history of fluids in her chest!

I became thoroughly obsessed with cat nutrition and counting calories for her.
This is how I was when I had to sustain my other cat Lola during her last weeks for her Oral SCC :(

I wrote a book, I'm so sorry. I just wanted you to know you're not alone in this. I can't comment on the IBD or the pancreatitis but anything on liver and gallbladder issues (plus the yellow pee and jaundice -- been there and we're still working through her jaundice), I am more than willing to help you with what I know!
I'm glad you wrote a book :)
Thanks!!!
 

mikameek

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What I've been told by a vet is that HL occurs only whena cat has some fat in their body. If a cat is underweight or has no fat to use in their methabolism, then the HL does not occur.
Hopefully the vet was right!



We are using a liver supplement that contains Milk Thistle and other ingredients. I have to use ut for at least a month. We've been using this beofre, with poor results.
I would try to increment the dosage of Ursacol (our version of Ursodiol) and see if that helps.



Pallina can't be put under for her liver conditions and for her history of fluids in her chest!



This is how I was when I had to sustain my other cat Lola during her last weeks for her Oral SCC :(



I'm glad you wrote a book :)
Thanks!!!
In reads to the HL, I don't know how true that is. Mika was slightly underweight when I got her. They wanted her around 3.6kg. She's a very small and lean cat but she still got HL. I would research that more.

I eventually broke up our dosage of Ursodiol (Ursacol for you) for Mika too. It was really hard to get it into her at one time so we did small dosages throughout the day.

I hope that everything I wrote is useful. Please let us know if you have any other questions and please update us on your baby!
 
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Antonio65

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Pallina was hospitalized again on Friday night!

When I came back from work on Friday it was around 6:30 pm. I let her out as usual, in the backyard, where there's no grass to chew on.
I was inside preparing the dinner for the feral cats, my wife was keeping an eye on Pallina. She's never let out without a supervision.

My wife said she saw Pallina getting near to a ivy plant, and a couple of minutes later she threw up some juices, then she screamed.
I heard a loud MEOW from outside, I thought it was two feral cats fighting. In that moment my wife ran inside with Pallina in her arms. Pallina was in clear distress and was screaming and howling. We laid her down on the floor and she couldn't stand, was panting with her mouth open, breathing very fast, her eyes wide open fixing at nothing.
My first thought was she was going to die there! We put some wet clothes on her head to keep her cool, it was 90°F outside, but she was in the shade while in the backyard.

The second thought was she had eaten some ivy, but the effect couldn't be that fast, furthermore there was no evidence she had chewed on it. In a couple of minutes, that looked like two centuries to us, Pallina got up a bit, and after another couple of minutes she started wandering in the house, but was tired and strange. Then she started going in and out her litter tray, at least 6 times in 45 minutes, with only a drop of pee on two occasions.
Then she slept.

I saw she was going to feel better, so I waited to see if it was something that could pass on its own.
But an hour later when she was still sleeeping and not eating or else, I drove her to her clinic, where there was only one doctor at 10 pm and that doctor was following the case of a cat fallen from the third floor, with several severe damages.
The doctor assessed that Pallina wasn't in a real emergency and let us wait for TWO HOURS!

The doctor held Pallina for the night, but on Saturday morning she was fine and at midday they told me I was able to go and pick her up anytime, so I went yesterday at 5 pm.
The only thing, they said, was that Pallina hadn't peed for the whole time, she ate, didn't drink.
They weren't able to assess what happened, everything was fine, her CBC and electrolytes were fine. Apart from her jaundice...
The only thing they could think of was a vasovagal syncope, probably due to her physical condition and the heat.
When I asked the vets what else we could do, one of them said a thing that I didn't like at all: she said this was a case of therapeutic tenacity (I hope it's the correct term n English) from my side and that I had to let her go... :mad:

They asked me to keep her monitored at home and see if she was eating and using the litter. She does both things.
And they advised me not to let her out during the warmest hours of the day.
But for at least 36 hours she didn't meow, I was going to think she got mute!

Right now she's rather fine, anyway my emergency state is still on!

Thanks for reading this book!
 
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Antonio65

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Mika was put on a liver protectant (Denamarin), the highest dose of Ursodiol possible for her weight
Just checked the label.
Pallina is taking 25 mg of Ursodeoxycholic Acid per day, her weight is 3 kg (6.6 lbs).
Any tip about it?
How much was Mika taking of it at the highest dose?
 

mikameek

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Just checked the label.
Pallina is taking 25 mg of Ursodeoxycholic Acid per day, her weight is 3 kg (6.6 lbs).
Any tip about it?
How much was Mika taking of it at the highest dose?
Are you asking about the Denamarin or the Ursodiol?
Mika was put on .85 ml of Ursodiol and I do not remember how many mg the pills were (we just gave 1 pill of Denamarin a day).
 
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Antonio65

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Are you asking about the Denamarin or the Ursodiol?
Mika was put on .85 ml of Ursodiol and I do not remember how many mg the pills were (we just gave 1 pill of Denamarin a day).
So your Ursodiol was a liquid form, I'm not able to convert it into pill form...
I guess Mika's weight was around 3 kg (given or taken) at that time.
 
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Antonio65

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I found a table from a veterinary association that says:

Ursodeoxycholic Acid: 15 mg/kg per day
Vitamin E: 400-500 IU per day
SAMe: 18 mg/kg per day
Milk Thistle: 4-8 mg/kg per day
L-Carnitine: 250 mg per day
Taurine: 250-500 mg per day

I think I could double up the dosage to Pallina, I'll ask my vet later today.
 
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Antonio65

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The vet told me to up the Ursacol pill from 1/2 to 3/4 a day.
We'll have a check-up visit around the first week in August.
 

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The vet told me to up the Ursacol pill from 1/2 to 3/4 a day.
We'll have a check-up visit around the first week in August.
Please let us know how your kitty is doing on the new dosage. It may take some time to see a difference but warning signs that its too much for her system is vomiting, diarrhea, lack of appetite (I'd say this means an outright refusal of any food with no interest or sign of nausea caused by the food for a cat that isn't already eating much) and allergic reaction type symptoms (labored breathing, hives, uncontrollable itchiness).
 

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Although I have no personal experience with Pallina's health problems I wanted to stop by and offer my special thoughts and prayers. :vibes::vibes: Thinking of your wife and you too. :hugs:
 
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Antonio65

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warning signs that its too much for her system is vomiting, diarrhea, lack of appetite (I'd say this means an outright refusal of any food with no interest or sign of nausea caused by the food for a cat that isn't already eating much)
This means that I might not be able to see any difference at all, because she's not much interested in food already...
Right now she's eating regularly, but she's taking half a pill of Cyproheptadine daily.
Without that pill she wouldn't eat much.

and allergic reaction type symptoms (labored breathing, hives, uncontrollable itchiness).
If there's an and, it could help a lot. Hse has already fluids in her chest, so any trouble at breathing will be a red light for me!
No itchiness so far, but we only upped it last night, so I will keep a close eye on her.
Thanks!
 
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mikameek

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This means that I might not be able to see any difference at all, because she's not much interested in food already...
Right now she's eating regularly, but she's taking half a pill of Cyproheptadine daily.
Without that pill she wouldn't eat much.



If there's an and, it could help a lot. Hse has already fluids in her chest, so any trouble at breathing will be a red light for me!
No itchiness so far, but we only upped it last night, so I will keep a close eye on her.
Thanks!
That's true. I think I would just keep an eye out that even with the pill she isn't slowing down on eating. When Mika was really sick there wasn't an appetite stimulant that would make her eat out there. Eating is the most important thing.

I guess I should say OR since any of these symptoms are possible. Just keep an eye on her and make sure she doesn't exhibit any signs of worsening!
 
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