Our Bowie has Wet FIP and need some encouragement!

[Antonio65]

I have not heard of an older cat getting FIP. Are they absolutely sure that's what it is?

My experiences with FIP are in cats of any age, a few months to about 10 yo.
The last one I treated a few months ago is 4 years old.
My Tom was at least 7 yo, maybe a little older.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I have not heard of an older cat getting FIP.

My first cat, Tawny, contracted FIP at age 15. From what I recall reading, it typically happens to older cats whose immune system are already compromised due to age and then some other form of illness/disease further weakens the immune system, and it triggers the mutation. Nothing else was diagnosed to be wrong with Tawny, but this was 32 years ago and there was no treatment, so there was no reason to pursue searching for other illnesses.

 

[RTR]

ask your vet about: two newly available anti-viral drugs: remdesivir and GS-441524.

 

[kittychick]

Bowie is gorgeous! I'm so sorry he and you are going through this.

I have not heard of an older cat getting FIP. Are they absolutely sure that's what it is? I did hear about one kitten who was diagnosed with FIP and treatment started, and that made them worse. It was determined it wasn't FIP, but I don't recall what they said it was. This was a rescue who had the cat.

I had a young cat, maybe 6 months or so, who developed FIP. Her symptoms were just suddenly one day hiding under the bed and not eating. It was weekend, I was thinking kitty cold, so on Monday we took her to the vet. Her temperature was very high. After a series of tests, it was determined FIP. At that time, there was no cure, so we kept her comfortable and happy as long as possible. I'm so happy there is a treatment now and I know of several kitties who were cured.

Thanks for the support. I hadn't seen it in adults either. So I was reading statistics - at shelters I've been with I'd only seen it in kittens too. Most kittens/cats carry the virus in latent form all their lives, but only about 2-5% of adult cats break with it (usually seniors - and Bowie's 15 - so looks like he's one of the lucky few 2-5% ). But his presentation is classic - the funny-looking fluid-filled belly that's actually a little tight feeling. The minute I felt his belly my heart sank since I'd felt that many, many times in kittens at shelters, and most of them lived less then a month. Bowie's labs are really good - which is great bc I did worry about heart issues since they can cause fluid, but this just felt so FIP to me.

He's acting great - had to start him on an appetite stimulant a few days ago - but otherwise aside from the giant belly, you'd never know there's anything wrong! My hubby keeps reminding me that the FB group that deals with this says to pay no attention to anyone else's case - all kitties are different, plus he's an adult. But when you see others bellies go down in 2 weeks and we're ending 2 weeks of one dosage and 1 now of the doubled dosage, it's super hard to stay positive. But just talking to this group helps!!!!!!

 

[kittychick]

ask your vet about: two newly available anti-viral drugs: remdesivir and GS-441524.

Vets here can't actually prescribe it so it's all done in a "hush hush Sopranos" sort of way, so we have to kind of talk "in code" with her, but she's very supportive of what we're doing. I knew about the FB Warriors group bc one of our fosters broke with it after being in his new home for just a few months, He was started on GS-441524 immediately (well, the day after we got him to the vet). That was 8/11, and it's just hard to see others on the FB group that are much better in just a week, and Bowie's on day 21 of treatment as of tonight. The group (which does have vets in it) doubled his dosage last Friday, so we're just praying it works soon. He's acting much better - actually 100% normal - since starting the treatment - but he just hasn't lost the fluid. Fingers crossed this double dose starts working soon. Getting a bit tired of crying and panic attacks every day!

 

[kittychick]

I don't have any experience with FIP, but I just wanted to come along and offer my emotional support. You know I've been a huge fan of your Bowie for years now. I hope your gorgeous boy recovers.

You've always been such a kind touchstone for me through the years - hearing you're out there thinking of him means alot. It's really rough - -but the support of the people here (esp treasured advice-givers like you!) help. It's SO easy to get discouraged. Isn't it amazing how much older he looks then in my avatar? In my avatar pic he was only about 2 - now he's 15. His heart on his back (that pic I posted) keeps reminding us to keep going....it's SO hard when you hear about others being "back to normal" in days or a week...and Bowie's still walking around looking like a pony express horse with mail-filled saddlebags. After less then a week on the treatment he's acting great, breathing great, eating, purring, doing everything normally...it's just the saddlebags of fluid that aren't reducing! We're trying SO hard not to panic....knowing wonderful people out there like you are cheering us all on helps!

 

[kittychick]

My experiences with FIP are in cats of any age, a few months to about 10 yo.
The last one I treated a few months ago is 4 years old.
My Tom was at least 7 yo, maybe a little older.

Thanks for both your messages. It is so unusual for an adult - particularly a senior - to get it - I researched and found only about 2% of adult cats get it. Guess some kitties have to make up the 2% and Bowie's part of the club no one wants to belong to. He did two weeks on the shots on the regular dosage for his weight, but he's such a scaredy cat bc of his abusive past that he retreated back into himself so quickly that, after the two initial weeks, they let us switch him to pills (he's acting more himself now) & upped his dosage by 2x (he's now being considered a "persistent effusion" case and is now on a high dosage of 12 mg of pills), which we just started 6 days ago. We're in very close contact with the group - and they swear not to worry yet. But it's impossible not to! He's acting so normal now - playing, running for treats, sleeping in his weird upside down way, torturing his "sister" - that it's hard to remember he's sick. But one look at his "fluid saddlebags" and we're reminded he's really ill. We do go back to the vet, who knows what we're doing and even advised it on his diagnostic visit - altho she had to advise it in a "hush hush Sopranos" sort of way. But at least she's very aware, believes in it, and we're headed back next week for a new bloodwork panel and to have him looked at. (his first blood panel, exam and ultrasound were amazing for a 15-yr-old kitty - no kidney, heart, etc. issues - it was just the fluid draw that showed as FIP, and it showed it in every way). Just say a prayer or think a kind thought of whatever you do for him - - - I'm hopefully over worried after hearing others - usually kittens - lost their fluid so quickly. Hopefully his fluid loss comes soon!!!!!!! Thanks so much for your experienced reply!

 

[Antonio65]

ask your vet about: two newly available anti-viral drugs: remdesivir and GS-441524.

Vets can't prescribe these drugs. The first one has never been approved for cats, the second one has never applied for approval and authorization to the FDA or other relevant agencies in the world.
They can be both obtained on the "black market" though.

 

[Meowmee]

So sorry about Bowie. I haven’t read about FIP for a while. It used to be totally fatal. If it was wet fip I believe. However, I’m very glad to hear there is a treatment now and I hope it helps him.

There was some question as to whether my Byron had FIP because he had fluid buildup. Unfortunately, I never found out because they killed him by piercing his spleen when they removed it and then sent him home knowing that, saying it was ok to take him home to day goodbye etc. I have never recovered from what they did to him and to me.

 

[white shadow]

Vets can't prescribe these drugs. The first one has never been approved for cats, the second one has never applied for approval and authorization to the FDA or other relevant agencies in the world. They can be both obtained on the "black market" though.

Antonio65 - in fact, this treatment has been approved in the UK and Australia.

From an all-encompassing article that appeared in The Guardian in May 20223:

"The treatment for FIP is now legal in the UK and Australia. (Dr. Niels) Pedersen credits that success to the advocacy of vets, and he warns that unless the veterinary profession in the US advocates strongly for the drug’s use in animals, “nothing much will change”."​

A well-written and easy read, the 60+ year history and struggle against FIP is well documented with an 'inside view' of FIP Warriors, all within the touching story of Snoots and is found here: How far would you go to save your cat? For me, it started with a contraband drug - TheGuardian.com [get yourself a tissue beforehand]
.

 

[Antonio65]

Antonio65 - in fact, this treatment has been approved in the UK and Australia.

That's great news!
Hopefully vets throughout the world will work together to force their governments to accept and approve the drug.
The fact is that UK and Australia work on their own, while the rest of Europe has to wait for the decision from EMA (the European Medicine Agency), the first step before every single State in Europe can give the drug the approval.
Because the EU is a bunch of bureaucrats who just look at their own interests, I doubt that something like that could happen soon.

To treat and save Romeo, the cat at the shelter that I mentioned in my above post, I got my supply of GS from a rescue group in Italy. They have a very good supply of med always available, and they told me they were able to get vials with a high strength, 30 mg/ml instead of the usual 20 mg/ml, so that the same dose of drug can be injected with a lower amount of stinging fluid.

From what I know, the GS-441524 is now being produced off-licence by some other manufacturer, and I had read that Gilead has warned them to stop producing the same drug without authorization. Should the current manufacturer obey the order, the supply of drug across the world may see a disruption.

A well-written and easy read, the 60+ year history and struggle against FIP is well documented with an 'inside view' of FIP Warriors, all within the touching story of Snoots and is found here: How far would you go to save your cat? For me, it started with a contraband drug - TheGuardian.com [get yourself a tissue beforehand]

Absolutely touching!
Currently, over here it is still a contraband drug, and vets cannot even mention it nor can they handle it within the walls of their clinics or practices.

 

[Antonio65]

The vials that I got were labeled, which was new to me

 

[kittychick]

So sorry about Bowie. I haven’t read about FIP for a while. It used to be totally fatal. If it was wet fip I believe. However, I’m very glad to hear there is a treatment now and I hope it helps him.

There was some question as to whether my Byron had FIP because he had fluid buildup. Unfortunately, I never found out because they killed him by piercing his spleen when they removed it and then sent him home knowing that, saying it was ok to take him home to day goodbye etc. I have never recovered from what they did to him and to me.

I'm SO sorry to hear about your Byron. We had one of our sweeties years ago die due to vet mishandling - - - even worse, we'd left her with them to run a few tests and were to come get her in a few hours. When we got back, she'd died due to their bungling a procedure, and when I was extremely upset (at that point - not at the vet or the practice bc I was in shock) I was told by the vet himself "if you were that concerned - you shouldn't have left your cat here. We can't ever guarantee anything." WHAT?!?! The vet was the one who said we needed to leave her and come back in a few hours, and it's MY fault? I even went back the next day to talk to him when I was calmer (just barely) - hoping to find out what happened at least. Instead I got the same "it was my fault for leaving - if you wanted to make sure you were here if your cat died you shouldn't have left." I've never been such combo of sad and angry, and neither before nor after have I cursed at a vet. (I'm a pretty "keep everyone happy don't make anyone uncomfortable" person - - -but I was SO upset). Needless to say, I never went back. So I feel for you deeply. I'm so sorry.

 

[kittychick]

The vials that I got were labeled, which was new to me

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I desperately wish they'd approve these drugs in the US - but yes, we're going thru the only option we have in the US which is the FB group (now there are two - one of which is an offshoot started by the woman whose cat Luna was the first cat Dr. Pederson studied that survived - and Luna's still alive 6 years later! I'm in contact with both groups). Our vials aren't labeled - I'd never seen ones that are! Nor are our pills, but I'd expected that after helping our ex-foster (who had dry/neuro FIP) through it. She's alive and healthy a full year later - now if we could get that approved and legal in the US!!!!! We only have the option of going thru the "black market" - but at least our vet is (quietly, talking in code sort of approval) on board with what we're doing - she actually suggested it. In a code sort of way.

 

[Antonio65]

I desperately wish they'd approve these drugs in the US - but yes, we're going thru the only option we have in the US which is the FB group

The rescue group where I purchased my vials from, is trying to convince our government (Italy) to approve this drug. They set up a campaign to collect signatures to be sent to the relevant office to have the drug approved.
So far I had to treat 3 cats, one in 2020, one in 2021, and the third one this year. I always had to find this drug on the black market, at rather high costs. The first two cats died anyway. The third one is doing well now, and I hope he can stay like he is now.

 

[kittychick]

So no diminishing of Bowie's fluid yet - if anything he seems to look bigger! My hubby swears no - but it's certainly not diminishing. Keep thinking "today's the day!" but it isn't. Unfortunately Bowie got wise to the pill trick we were using that had worked SO well for days - and last night meant shoving 4 pills into him. I've decided I need to take just a day or two break from measuring his circumference - - - it's too hard. Obviously we're monitoring everything else, but I need a tiny break from the depression of the tape measurer. I keep telling myself tonight's just the beginning of week 4 on meds, he's happy and seems good otherwise, plus he'll go in for bloodwork in a little over a week (again - our vet's good about knowing what we're doing and just talking in code). It's just a gut punch to see him look like he's pregnant now for 3 weeks. We'd seen SUCH a quick turn-around in our ex-foster's dry/neuro FIP (she was an older kitten, and I know kittens of her age respond the fastest and best to the treatment) - - - it's just SO rough to see nothing change! Hubby keeps reminding me he's at least happy, eating, seems comfortable. Well, as comfortable you can be with what looks like a big water balloon as a belly - -- altho my lack of adherence to my WW weight loss last year during all the stress in our house (lost my mother unexpectedly in the spring, my husband was diagnosed with prostate cancer, and now Bowie has been a 1-2-3 kick in my gut - causing me to regain my gut in a much shorter time then it took to lose it!).

Just praying we see SOME reduction during this fourth week. It's so hard to see all of these cats & kittens in this group doing SO well while we're feeling like there's no progress. It's definitely draining (and my fibro isn't helped at all - altho Bowie's health is more important then my pain!).

 

[kittychick]

The rescue group where I purchased my vials from, is trying to convince our government (Italy) to approve this drug. They set up a campaign to collect signatures to be sent to the relevant office to have the drug approved.
So far I had to treat 3 cats, one in 2020, one in 2021, and the third one this year. I always had to find this drug on the black market, at rather high costs. The first two cats died anyway. The third one is doing well now, and I hope he can stay like he is now.

I'm so sorry about your first 2. It is absolutely CRAZY expensive. Pills are $8 each, and he gets 3 a day. Plus throw in the bloodwork, etc. and it's almost an "eat or treat the cat" - - we've obviously gone with treating Bowie. And right behind Bowie we have our other, Flick, with hyperthyroidism, and need to get her into a program. She's doing well on pills for now - but know w/o the iodine program she has a shorter lifespan. Unfortunately, treating both at once in a major program is impossible for us. So holding out hope that Flick keeps doing well on pills and Bowie starts to show SOME improvement soon!

I'd been reading up on this treatment for years - since at the shelter it comes up more often then we'd like. But since it can't be done legally, shelters can't treat for it here either. So sad. I keep reading different reasons as to why it's not approved here in the US yet - but sounds like regardless, it's going to be some time before that changes. I'm all for safety (my dad and stepmother worked in the pharmaceutical industry so I understand the millions that go into safety precautions) - but I sure wish it were easier to get and cheaper!

I'll read that article when I have kleenex nearby. I thought the first week of getting him going would be the rough part - watching him show no real fluid improvement in 3 weeks - - - feels like 10! - - - is really emotionally draining.

 

[RTR]

I do what I have to to help my animals! Good luck.........

 

[kittychick]

I do what I have to to help my animals! Good luck.........

Thanks for the well wishes - I’ll pass them along to Bowie!

 

[Meowmee]

I'm SO sorry to hear about your Byron. We had one of our sweeties years ago die due to vet mishandling - - - even worse, we'd left her with them to run a few tests and were to come get her in a few hours. When we got back, she'd died due to their bungling a procedure, and when I was extremely upset (at that point - not at the vet or the practice bc I was in shock) I was told by the vet himself "if you were that concerned - you shouldn't have left your cat here. We can't ever guarantee anything." WHAT?!?! The vet was the one who said we needed to leave her and come back in a few hours, and it's MY fault? I even went back the next day to talk to him when I was calmer (just barely) - hoping to find out what happened at least. Instead I got the same "it was my fault for leaving - if you wanted to make sure you were here if your cat died you shouldn't have left." I've never been such combo of sad and angry, and neither before nor after have I cursed at a vet. (I'm a pretty "keep everyone happy don't make anyone uncomfortable" person - - -but I was SO upset). Needless to say, I never went back. So I feel for you deeply. I'm so sorry.

Thanks
Omg that is horrific. Sometimes it’s just hard to fathom what goes through these people’s heads when they do stuff like this.

I know the Dvm who did that to my Byron was later fired or left the practice. I did make a complaint with a group of people who had also had problems with the practice. But it wasn’t until a couple of years later, and nothing came of it.

The problem is a those practices, and doctors are not regulated properly by anyone and the state board that regulates them advocates for them instead of trying to stop things like this from happening. I tried to talk to the dvm who had been treating him there for several years, and he wouldn’t even talk to me. A scam artist too as they vastly overcharged for everything. You had to pay them before they did any emergency things too. It was all about the money although when I first took him there I thought he was a good dvm as he diagnosed high bp and put him on meds etc.

They had the nerve to charge $800 for murdering my poor Byron in the most horrific way….what happened was by the time we got home he was bleeding out and howling and screaming and vomiting and voiding fluids,. I had to rush him to my other Dvm, who was very close by to be euthanized.

I knew that he was going to die prolly and I just wanted to take him home so my brother could say goodbye to him. The dvm treating him that day told me she knew she had nicked his spleen and they put a bandage around to stop bleeding, and then she said it was OK for him to go home, but clearly it wasn’t and he bled out. I know I have never been the same since the trauma. I will never forgive myself that I didn’t stop that from happening to him. Or them obviously. I will never know what the diagnosis was, but they did mention FIP as a possibility due to fluid in his abdomen.