Ongoing issues with new kitten and older cat

[heatherwillard0614]

That's exactly what I'm imagining! Something heavy enough to just prevent them from moving it should suffice. Pip is more of a freeze in place or flee kinda guy, he's never showed interested in wanting to fight Arwen, he just does more of the I-don't-like-this-get-away-from-me hisses or otherwise he'll flee. So thankfully I'm not too worried about them fighting necessarily, I'm more worried that Arwen will unintentionally bully/terrorize him just by not knowing how to take a hiss for an answer lol.

I think it is just going to take some more time. Hopefully they will come to be the best of friends and soon. That would be amazing. It will just take time, patience, persistence and consistency play time with both but also especially with one who may seem a little more shy. It builds their confidence because to them play is hunting.

I believe things are going to work out great.
You will have to let us know how the room divider works out. I'm imagining it to work well.

 

[gotlembas]

I think it is just going to take some more time. Hopefully they will come to be the best of friends and soon. That would be amazing. It will just take time, patience, persistence and consistency play time with both but also especially with one who may seem a little more shy. It builds their confidence because to them play is hunting.

I believe things are going to work out great.
You will have to let us know how the room divider works out. I'm imagining it to work well.

Will do! I feel so bad for Arwen currently, she's probably feeling like an only kitten because she has no one to play with during the day when I'm at work and her only playtime is when I'm home from work and on the weekends when I'm always home. It worries me because she's starting to display what I think might be signs of play aggression--she randomly attacked my feet yesterday completely unprovoked and I think she's getting frustrated that she only gets to play when I'm home. I do play with her plenty, but I suppose I incorrectly assumed that two kittens, albeit one being a bit older, would get along quicker, and it certainly isn't turning out to be the case Until they're comfy with each other I'll continue to redirect her play to her toys though!

 

[heatherwillard0614]

Here are a few jackson galaxy videos that are about play I really like the boil and simmer technique it works great. Maybe this will help with Arwen because she will be getting the play She wants and needs this type wares them out and i utilize this play method with my kitty. She used to wake us up in the middle of the night so doing this actually stopped that behavior. occasionally she jumps out at me from a hidey hole, I don't know if this is play aggression, i dont think it is because she never even pulounces us. I think she likes scaring me sometimes... lol
She only does this when she has the zoomies lol
She will be in a hidey space and either myself or my husband will walk by she will shake her little butt and run out then run down the hallway and back then up her cat tree... we call this her cracking out lol it's hilarious

 

[gotlembas]

Here are a few jackson galaxy videos that are about play I really like the boil and simmer technique it works great. Maybe this will help with Arwen because she will be getting the play She wants and needs this type wares them out and i utilize this play method with my kitty. She used to wake us up in the middle of the night so doing this actually stopped that behavior. occasionally she jumps out at me from a hidey hole, I don't know if this is play aggression, i dont think it is because she never even pulounces us. I think she likes scaring me sometimes... lol
She only does this when she has the zoomies lol
She will be in a hidey space and either myself or my husband will walk by she will shake her little butt and run out then run down the hallway and back then up her cat tree... we call this her cracking out lol it's hilarious

Oh yes I've been doing the boil and simmer and is usually works great, although she often gets distracted halfway through a play session so I let her explore or do whatever it else she wants to do. It's a little frustrating because I'll try to have solid 10-15 minute play sessions with her but she'll frequently get distracted and wander off in the middle. Unless that's part of the boil and simmer?

 

[heatherwillard0614]

Oh yes I've been doing the boil and simmer and is usually works great, although she often gets distracted halfway through a play session so I let her explore or do whatever it else she wants to do. It's a little frustrating because I'll try to have solid 10-15 minute play sessions with her but she'll frequently get distracted and wander off in the middle. Unless that's part of the boil and simmer?

Actually it can be.. that could be her simmer. You will have a good play session at its height then as she tires she will slow down and stop for a few minutes usually then you gotta get her playing again.. each time you will notice the play sessions are shorter until finally you try to play with her and she is just laying there just totally done.. that is when it is the end of the boil and simmer..


This is a video of my girl. I think it was 6 videos each time she stopped to simmer I cut the video. And pasted them all together. It is about 10 minutes in slow motion.. lol I was playing around with videoing in slowmo and I love this one of her. But the part you don't really see is she will either go off for a few minutes or lay down on the wormey for a few minutes then start playing again.

 

[gotlembas]

Actually it can be.. that could be her simmer. You will have a good play session at its height then as she tires she will slow down and stop for a few minutes usually then you gotta get her playing again.. each time you will notice the play sessions are shorter until finally you try to play with her and she is just laying there just totally done.. that is when it is the end of the boil and simmer..


This is a video of my girl. I think it was 6 videos each time she stopped to simmer I cut the video. And pasted them all together. It is about 10 minutes in slow motion.. lol I was playing around with videoing in slowmo and I love this one of her. But the part you don't really see is she will either go off for a few minutes or lay down on the wormey for a few minutes then start playing again.

Well this is immensely helpful then, this could be the issue! I think I misunderstood the simmer part and thought that I should just let her catch and "kill" the prey until she wasn't batting it around anymore and then suddenly resurrect it each time until she's done--I may be wrongly assuming when she walks away to the other side of the room or starts doing something else random like climbing her cat tree that she's done entirely. Because without fail, when she does that, she'll be back 5 minutes later trying to pounce on whatever she can find lol.

 

[heatherwillard0614]

Well this is immensely helpful then, this could be the issue! I think I misunderstood the simmer part and thought that I should just let her catch and "kill" the prey until she wasn't batting it around anymore and then suddenly resurrect it each time until she's done--I may be wrongly assuming when she walks away to the other side of the room or starts doing something else random like climbing her cat tree that she's done entirely. Because without fail, when she does that, she'll be back 5 minutes later trying to pounce on whatever she can find lol.

Yes that 5 minutes she is doing whatever else is her simmer.. she isn't done a boil and simmer session until she doesn't come back and she is just done lol. My girl is the same way she will either go off and get a drink or go to her tree.. just do whatever then come back fairly quickly within 5 to 15 minutes. Then we go again. Until she doesn't come back. Yes definitely let her kill the toys too lol that keeps them interested too and not just getting aggrevated to the point of stopping be abuse they can't get their prey. Once you have a true full boil and simmer session. You will then know how her sessions will normally go. Like about how many times she comes back and how short her sessions become. My girls last session is about 3 minutes then she is ready to eat and sleep lol

 

[gotlembas]

I do have some good news, they can successfully be in the same area as each other now! They eat next to each other (except when Arwen finishes first and tries to butt Pippin out of his bowl since he's a slower eater) and are comfortable being near each other, except Arwen keeps chasing and trying to pounce on Pippin and he is not having it. I do my best to distract her with her toys and play with her myself, but I swear whenever I turn my back for a second she's chasing Pippin and he'll hiss and swat at her.

Do I just need to permanently keep them separated when Arwen is in play mode? Even though Pip is still in his late kitten years too, he's not as playful as Arwen and seems to be rather annoyed by her playfulness and Arwen just doesn't know when to quit. Pippin will play with me with a feather toy often, but as soon as Arwen wants to play with him he hates it. For the first time last night I tried starting out by letting them both roam free while I tried to go to bed but I had to intervene after about 30 minutes when Arwen would not stop chasing Pippin and he looked rather annoyed and tired of her constant sneak attacks on him.

Although I will say, he does have a few up high hiding spots where he can get away from her if he wants, but he wasn't using them last night which I found to be odd. She would chase and play-attack him and he'd hiss and swat at her to stop, but then after she'd quit it for a few minutes, he'd still just mosey around my entryway not caring to hide to get away from her or anything, and it's kind of confusing me and giving me mixed signals. If he truly was done with her antics wouldn't he run away to his hidey holes? Instead he's just hanging out in the entryway and they just end up in an attack, hiss, run away, repeat cycle. Pippin is a true scaredy cat and if something spooks him or he doesn't want me near him, best believe he'll made a mad dash for his hidey holes, but when Arwen is attacking him he sticks around even though he hisses and swats at her. I can't tell if I should keep intervening by whisking Arwen away when this happens or let them work it out themselves even if Pippin clearly seems annoyed at the constant sneak attacks!

 

[heatherwillard0614]

For the eating if you can take a spoon and smush Arwens food on the sides and bottom of her bowl so it will take her longer to eat or get a slow feeder.

As for the sneak play attacks still.. it sounds like Pippin might be getting used to it or at least is tolerating it. Hissing and swatting but not really running away and going to his hidey spots.. that is a good sign on his part. Especially when he continues just moseying around. Hissing, swatting is cat language he could be saying "cmon I don't want to play right now, LOOK I TOLD YOU I DONT WANT TO PLAY RIGHT NOW." I am thinking it is more communication because of him sticking around when normally he would run. I'm not sure if I'm correct in this but it sounds like it is getting better from Pippins perspective.

 

[gotlembas]

For the eating if you can take a spoon and smush Arwens food on the sides and bottom of her bowl so it will take her longer to eat or get a slow feeder.

As for the sneak play attacks still.. it sounds like Pippin might be getting used to it or at least is tolerating it. Hissing and swatting but not really running away and going to his hidey spots.. that is a good sign on his part. Especially when he continues just moseying around. Hissing, swatting is cat language he could be saying "cmon I don't want to play right now, LOOK I TOLD YOU I DONT WANT TO PLAY RIGHT NOW." I am thinking it is more communication because of him sticking around when normally he would run. I'm not sure if I'm correct in this but it sounds like it is getting better from Pippins perspective.

It's definitely been a huge step for them so I was very excited! But yeah, he'll run from her when she chases, but he always runs to places where he either backs himself in and then they just kinda both sit there until she tries to play with him again, or he'll run to a place where he could definitely get away but for some reason chooses not to. Like this morning, Arwen chased him over to the bookcase and he absolutely could've jumped up on the shelf to get away once and for all, but instead he just sat there lol. Hopefully it's a good sign though!

 

[gotlembas]

Hi everyone! Things are going well, I just thought I'd drop in with some cute pics of the kiddos! Pip is the white fluffy boy, and Arwen is my smaller tortie. Thank you for all the ongoing advice, hope these cute pics help brighten your day!

 

[heatherwillard0614]

Awwww they are both absolutely adorable..

 

[JavierG]

What we did with our new Kitten Taffy, who we got about two weeks ago was basically have the kids sit in the room with her and ignore her while they played on their tablets. Occasionally they would drag a string along. About 3 days later she started to pounce on the string. We also discovered she had a preference for the cheap aluminum foil ball, than the bought toys. Now she plays plenty, still a bit shy with getting carried but we will get there

 

[gotlembas]

Well, the play issue is still ongoing, unfortunately. I had to separate them last night by putting Arwen back in her playpen for a bit because she kept chasing Pippin and he was running under the bed to try and get away with his ears flattened, and then they'd tussle under the bed and I could hear Pippin hissing at her. On bad days like yesterday, Arwen will annoy him so much that just her casually walking by Pippin, or vise versa, will cause him to hiss at her because he thinks she's going to jump him again. I keep trying to redirect her attention with her feather toy, but this also attracts Pippin as well. Last night I was trying to distract her from attacking him repeatedly so I got out the feather toy and they both appeared to play with it. It was a good moment and actually really cute when they were both engaged with the toy and they took turns playing with it with no issues, actually! But as soon as I would put the toy down, even after Arwen was panting and laying on the floor and showing disinterest in continuing to play, 5 minutes later she'd be back to chasing Pippin around. I've seen him pretty aggressively bat at her, but with no claws. It just appears he's getting really fed up and I'm still struggling with wondering if I should separate them or not because Pip really doesn't seem to be enjoying it. As soon as I put Arwen in her playpen, he's back to moseying around my apartment. Sometimes he'll walk by the playpen while she's in it and she'll jump at the mesh walls and he'll hiss at her too.

I tried putting Arwen in the bathroom with her toys and closing the door to try and separate them that way instead of her playpen so that she could have more space, but she started crying and Pippin immediately ran over to the bathroom door and was meowing at it also, like he wanted to get to her and was distressed that he couldn't. It's very strange and giving me mixed signals! It's like he doesn't like it when I separate them, but when I let Arwen out he inevitably gets chased and attacked into oblivion and hates it. I'm so confused! He will actively go up to her at times right after hissing his little heart out at her, she'll attack him, and then he'll act like he toootally did not see that coming (eye roll lol) and hiss again, then rinse and repeat. Why on earth does he keep going back to her if he know he's going to get jumped? I would almost say it seems like a game, except for the part where he's clearly not enjoying it because he's hissing, swatting at her, and running away from her with his ears flattened.

 

[gotlembas]

Hi all! Anyone have any experience with kittens being egregiously hungry and/or eating things they shouldn't? I gave Arwen her lick mat last night with her dinner on it as usual and when I woke up this morning I discovered she had chewed through the lick mat and there was about a dime-sized piece missing, so I'm assuming she ate it. Which would make since given I heard her quite loudly throwing up at 1:30a this morning, but I just assumed she was experiencing indigestion since she's such a fast eater.

She's going #1 and #2 just fine, and this morning was acting normal and was eager to eat her breakfast this morning as usual, except you bet I took that lick mat away and just went back to giving her her food in a regular bowl. This is following a sharp uptick in her hunger patterns--I'm not sure if it's because she's rapidly growing or there's other cause for concern, but lately she's been absolutely ravenous. I've been giving her half a 3oz can of pate for breakfast and the same for dinner, with occasional treats and dry food to snack on throughout the day and an additional lunch meal on the weekends.

Lately I've been giving her 3/4 of a 3oz can and have been gradually increasing her amounts because she will not stop trying to eat random objects like packaging for things, the fibers on my large area rug--if you name it, she'll try and eat it. Pippin just got over surprise tapeworm, but other than the excessive amounts of hunger Arwen isn't showing any of the other signs of parasitic disease like Pippin did (he had diarrhea, was throwing up, scooting around on the floor, etc.). I'm learning and adjusting how much to feed her according to her apparent hunger levels, but for the past week she's been constantly hungry and will attempt to raid my kitchen counters of anything she can find. I even caught her trying to chew on packing tape the other day from a Chewy box! Luckily, this is all happening right before her scheduled vet visit tomorrow to establish care, so I'm going to see if they can do an xray and make sure the silicone mat isn't causing a blockage and she'll pass it okay, and to get some advice about her rather insatiable hunger lately.

Seems like it's out of the frying pan, into the fire with these two...every time one thing gets solved another issue pops up! I'm going to talk to the vet tomorrow but does this sound normal for a 5-month-old kitten to be so ravenous suddenly? She's always been very excited about food, but only lately has it felt like she's been going overboard with her attempts to get food, to the point of eating non-edible objects. I swear I'm not starving her or anything, I'm imagining I maybe just need to further increase the amount I'm giving her, but that would mean I'd be giving her an entire 3oz can of kitten pate at breakfast and at dinner, not to mention the dry food and treats she gets throughout the day. For comparison, Pippin, who is approaching 11 months old, is eating about 4.5oz at breakfast and dinner, but he frequently does not finish his meals and is more of a grazer. He's also eating adult wet food now.

Anyone have any ideas here? Feed Arwen different food, more/less food, more/less frequently, etc.? I'm at my wits end and with the way she's acting about food it worries me that she either has some parasitic disease, has Pica, or isn't eating enough and I need to be feeding her more. Thanks again to everyone for helping me through this journey and putting up with my constant questions

 

[rubysmama]

It's good that you have a vet appointment scheduled, so you can run all this past them.

As for the excessive eating, maybe she's going through a growth spurt, and is extra hungry. When it comes to kittens, they say to let them eat as much as they want, until they're a year old. So make sure there's always some food in her dish.

Is the lick mat made of corrugated cardboard? If so, maybe she's getting her adult teeth, and her mouth is achy, so is chewing.

The eating other things, could be Pica, so do mention that to the vet.
Pica in Cats | PetMD

 

[gotlembas]

It's good that you have a vet appointment scheduled, so you can run all this past them.

As for the excessive eating, maybe she's going through a growth spurt, and is extra hungry. When it comes to kittens, they say to let them eat as much as they want, until they're a year old. So make sure there's always some food in her dish.

Is the lick mat made of corrugated cardboard? If so, maybe she's getting her adult teeth, and her mouth is achy, so is chewing.

The eating other things, could be Pica, so do mention that to the vet.
Pica in Cats | PetMD

Thank you! I'm definitely going to be running all my questions by the vet at her appointment this afternoon because I've run into a mental block on how to handle her behavior. I'm of the same mindset and am like 90% sure she's just rapidly growing (especially because each morning when I go to greet her I swear she looks bigger than the day before!) and that's why she's wanting to eat so much, but I just want to check with the vet and make sure she doesn't have something like tapeworm since Pippin did just get over it. Still a mystery as to how he got it because they're both flea-treated and he was fine for a whole month until he started showing symptoms.

The lick mat is made of silicone, so thankfully the bit she likely ingested is nontoxic and she's continuing to behave, eat, drink, and use her litterbox as normal a day after making my previous post. Until I can ask the vet more, in the meantime I've just been feeding her as much as she wants and hoping it'll help mitigate the problem. Yesterday she got up on the kitchen counter to try and go look for food scraps in the sink a few times and got into Pip's food once, but was otherwise fairly well-behaved for once. It's a day-by-day thing with her, it would seem. The amount of stress it's causing me that she might again try and eat something nonedible and/or toxic is quite overwhelming, that's for sure! I'm hopeful the vet will have other tips and ideas

 

[rubysmama]

Good luck at the vet. Please post an update, then you have a chance.

 

[gotlembas]

Late update from the vet on Arwen: she's okay! Whether or not she still has silicone in her little tummy is questionable, but the vet said xrays weren't necessary unless I really wanted to be extra safe since she wasn't displaying any symptoms of a blockage. The vet said she likely threw up the silicone when she threw up initially that night, or she already has or will poop it out.

Related but not related: I'm gradually beginning the process of taking away the playpen and letting them both free roam while I'm at work and not just Pippin, but Arwen is showing some signs of play that seem really aggressive to me and it makes me really nervous to leave them home alone in the same space unattended. Pippin is finally engaging in mutual play with Arwen as opposed to him just barely tolerating her wanting to play, which is good! I've seen Arwen chase Pippin under the bed, but I've also seen Pippin chase Arwen under the bed. This is a huge step for them!

However, Arwen seems to not know when to stop. You'd think it would be Pippin, but he's more of a gentle giant. Arwen is currently being a tiny terror while playing with Pippin--whether they're already playing or not, eventually she'll get to the point where she'll be chasing Pippin and pouncing on him so aggressively that he hisses pretty loud at her and he yelps every once in a while during this too. I'm trying to take the approach of just letting them work it out like everyone has been recommending, but the last few days I've caught Arwen with Pippin's fur in her mouth a few times (Pippin is medium-haired) after these particularly aggressive play-attacks from her and it's concerning me that she's actually hurting him even though she's half his size.

She's also gotten into the habit of growling with toys in her mouth and she'll often do this, and growl louder, if Pippin comes near her while she's solo-playing with one of her toys. She didn't used to do this and so it's concerning me a little, but she'll also growl with her toys in her mouth if neither me nor Pippin is even anywhere near her (I know this because I can hear her growling at her toy all the way across the room lol).

I worry this behavior is worsening because of having to keep her separated in the playpen while I'm gone, but it's specifically because of her behavior that I worry for Pippin's safety. Again, their play is usually mutual now--I'd say Arwen starts it about 60-70% of the time and Pippin starts it the rest of the time--but Arwen is always the one to take things too far and make Pippin hiss and occasionally yelp while playing. I was going to trial letting Arwen free roam last night because she was really good the day before and didn't get too aggressive with Pippin, but as soon as I turned off the lights and tried to go to sleep, Arwen was going crazy attacking Pippin and they kept wrestling under my bed with constant hisses from Pippin and, out of fear they'd hurt each other while I was sleeping, I put her back in her playpen.

I try to play with Arwen individually to tire her out so she's not so aggressive in her play with Pippin, but the odd thing is that when I'm trying to play with her, Pippin always runs over and is a huge toy hog and won't let her have a turn.

 

[rubysmama]

Hissing isn't too bad, but fur in the mouth is a bit more concerning. So you probably won't want to leave them alone unsupervised for a bit yet.

Can't remember if this has been posted already, but here's a link to the TCS article Are My Cats Fighting Or Playing? | TheCatSite which might be helpful.

Also, you probably have noticed that heatherwillard0614 , who was replying regularly on this thread has gone quiet. That's because she's having some health issues. More about that here: Get Well Heatherwillard