Older new cat attacking my docile female~advice PLEASE!

[saigo]

Hi everyone any advice would be appreciated. 

Background is~ I adopted a six year old female siamese who has been locked up in an apartment for six years with no interaction with any other animals. She's been on her own during the day while the owners worked. 

So thats when I joined this site to learn how to integrate them properly and followed advice to the tee. I put her in a safe room for a month. Brought her carrier out for my two girls to sniff. Did scent exchange with blankets, brushes, etc for 1st two weeks. The door had very little space under it due to carpet. But my girls knew she was there and "Casper" knew my girls were there. After 4 weeks I started letting her out when my girls were sleeping in our room for another two weeks. Then I would put her on our enclosed deck which has several windows off the house. Casper would attack my girls through the glass. I did this for two or more weeks til the attacks and hissing stopped. Then moved her into our office which has a glass door and a good space under the door. I would feed them on either side of door, I put a carpet runner down that would slide under the door and put catnip on either side of door for all cats to enjoy and very close to each other. This worked quite well.

I then started bringing Casper out on her harness, at first she lunged at Singer (also siamese)  we got through that and the two siamese seem to get along. We had one incident during the introduction where casper managed to get in our room and attacked singer. Singer seemed to fight back and so I think casper knows not to tangle with her. So all seemed fine for a few weeks. But now casper is going after my other female. She is a docile girl that doesn't want conflict and is quite small and the youngest at 3 years. Casper has been hunting her down on a daily basis until she finds her corners her and attacks her. Clapping, yelling doesn't stop casper the water bottle does. But once I break it up casper just goes for her again til I can separate into different rooms. These aren't little cat spats they are full fledged fights with Zyra's fur everywhere. Zyra is terrified of her. So we have been letting all 3 cats out together when we are home for limited time. Casper and singer tolerate each other. 

Everything seems to be going good, I always make sure I know exactly where casper and zyra are, then all of a sudden out of nowhere casper is on top of zyra and they are flying through the house and zyra is trying escape, the last episode was on sat it took three adults to break the fight up. I have to make sure casper is in her room when we go out and at night. When I have them together casper's eyes are always fixed on zyra I usually have to get between them to shoo casper the other way.

Casper is a sweet girl who has been deprived the attention she deserves, she craves attention.She adjusted to our 80lb lab just fine. I just don't know how to get her to stop hunting zyra down. I really am at my witts end. Any thoughts, ideas or advice would be great. Or should I consider rehoming her to a catless home??

Thanks for reading.

 

[saigo]

I should have added that Casper has been here a little over two months. I know.............it's not very long, but to me its seems like forever! 

 

[aprilprey]

Oh dear...I hope you get a response from someone with more cat experience than I.

I have a younger, larger male cat (Dexter) that badly wants to play with my older, smaller female (Boo). She's just not into it.  What we do is this: when Dexter is pestering Boo to play, we chase HIM around the house..as if to say "If you want to pick on the smaller cat, you have to defeat the "larger cats" (that would be us) FIRST.    By the time The Boyfriend has chased him around - he's forgotten all about Boo.

Over time - he eventually got the hint and now all we have to do is give a firm "HEY STOP THAT" - he knows.  Sometimes he'll even chase us back and that's when we grab a toy and start playing,  But Dexter is motivated by play urge...not sure if this will work for you.

I know this probably isn't much help....sorry!

ETA: oooh,  just clicked in that you are trying to integrate 3 females.  That's a tough one....hopefully someone with multi-cat household experience will chime in.  I have only dealt with male-female dynamics....which I think are different.

Maybe some Feliway spray would help?

 

[saigo]

thanks for the reply April. Yesterday went better then past days. I have been trying bad behavior gets bad consequences, she gets sprayed and locked in her room if she attacks. Good behavior gets good attention, treats, pets, play time. This hasn't been working in the past, but yesterday we went 10 hours without an attack or hissing/growling. So maybe she is turning a corner. But I have to know where she is at all times. These attacks just come out of the blue. All will be good and I go into the kitchen or turn my back and a fight breaks out. 

 

[catspaw66]

First of all, please stop using the water spray. It tends to make the sprayee more aggressive, not less. www.thecatsite.com/a/cats-and-discipline-dont-mix

What you have is an alpha cat that wants to let the others know she is boss. Being an only cat for six years has destroyed any social interaction instincts. I would suggest you sequester her and start the process all over again. This time don't use any negative reinforcement. Give treats when she acts properly and withhold them when she acts up. Instead of the spray bottle, use a sharp "NO" and a hand clap when she starts acting aggressive. Get an old medicine bottle and put some dried beans or such in it, and when she acts up, give it a shake or two, while saying 'no' and pointing a finger at her.

When you are not home, sequester her, with her box, food water and toys. 

Trim her claws and keep them blunt all the time. www.thecatsite.com/a/how-to-best-take-care-of-cat-claws

And finally, you may have to keep her separate from your other cats. Some cats just can't tolerate being in a multi-cat home.

I have 5 females and didn't have much of a problem integrating them. Sheba was introduced to the clowder when she was 4 years old, and Sugar and Spice were about 4 months.

 

[saigo]

catpaws thank you for the reply and link. I did not know that about spray bottles. The thing is I've tried hand clapping, stomping my feet and it does faze her, the spray bottle is thing only thing that will break the fight up, I only use it to break up fights. I realize she is alpha cat and trying to establish being boss. Zyra has no problem with this she is not a confrontational cat, she likes peace. She can just be laying in a corner and casper will attack her. Or zyra can be down stairs sleeping and casper will hunt her down corner her and attack. 

Casper does have her own room upstairs with everything she needs. She always goes in there at night and when we are not home. These fights happen when I have them in the main living area where I can keep an eye on them.

I will give the can of beans a try. So far today has been good!

 

[catspaw66]

OK, I can see using the water as a last resort. Sometimes, I think a bucket of water would be the thing to stop mine from poking at each other. I would never do it, though.  Use a medicine bottle with small beans or AirSoft pellets in it. It has a sharper sound than a can.

 

[shadowsrescue]

I have had a similar situation in my household.  I have one indoor only cat, Jake who has been in our home for 5 years.  He is a sweet sweet boy.  I brought Marvin, a territorial stray into my house the very end of May.  He had been living on my deck since December and was causing problems with my 2 ferals.  I was able to trap Marvin in March and have him neutered, but this did not stop his territorial aggression.  I tried at earnest to find him a home, but no luck.  I decided to take a chance and bring him  in he house.  He too is very sweet and loving, but he turns on a dime when he sees Jake.  I too did all of the slow slow introductions.  All went well and the boys were even out and about together for almost a week.  Out of the blue, the hissing, growling, posturing, chasing and fighting began.  It got to the point whenever Marvin saw Jake he immediately attacked.  Fur would be everywhere.  I tried clapping, starling  and nothing work.  The only thing that did work was the water bottle.  I could not leave them unattended for even a minute.  Someone was always having to be put away and at night Marvin was in his safe room.

I decided I had to back up and try again.  I separated the boys completely for about 4 days.  They did not have any visual contact.  Next I used a large dog cage.  I covered it 3 sides and put Jake inside.  Jake felt safe and Marvin could sniff.  I fed each yummy chicken.  I would do this for just a few minutes 3x a day.  I kept this up for about 10 days.  Next I used a tall baby gate.  I had my DS help with Jake on one side and then me with Marvin on the other.  We used chicken and also played string.  We did this for a number of days too.  At the same time I did more scent swapping.  I would put their favorite sleeping blanket each day under the others food bowl.  In addition to the above, I used liquid Composure Max for both cats.  Yet, Marvin got more.  I also used Safe Space for Cats by Spirit Essences for Jake and Jealousy and Outburst for Animals from Green HopeFarms.  This all went into their wet foo 2x a day. 

With all of the above, things started to calm down.  We occasionally have a chase, but Marvin is so much more relaxed and calm.  He and Jake now just avoid each other. 

It has taken me almost 6 months to get to this point.  I don't think they will ever be buddies, but coexisiting is nice.

 

[saigo]

thanks for the reply Shadowsrescue this gives me hope I may try the kennel. For some reason she seems better in the last three days? We've gone three days without a fight this is a record.

 

[aprilprey]

I thought of another option...kind of an involved solution.

There are pet doors that you can program to a specific cat's microchip - when used in this way, only the cat with the matching microchip can get the door open.

If things regress and never gets any better for the docile kitty - you could install such a pet door on the door of her "safe room".  Once she figured it out...she'll have a room to escape into that the aggressive kitty won't be able to access.

But like I said...pretty involved.  And I am not sure if the doors go both ways...they are designed to keep wildlife and other cats out...but then, if "in" is only accessible to your docile kitty, getting out I think is just like a normal pet door.

Here is one model...but it uses a "smart key" worn on the cats collar...I know there are models that use the microchip but can't find one now.

http://store.petsafe.net/electronic-smartdoor

 

[saigo]

thanks April, interesting! Had no idea such a thing was available. I'm thinking I just haven't given her enough time  >>>sigh<<<<  I will persevere.

 

[aprilprey]

You are a saint to soldier on!  Years back, I adopted a female cat that ended up in a similar situation.  A co-worker moved in with his girlfriend, and the resulting  group of 3-female felines were NOT getting along.  They asked me to take Panda, who was the one that ended up at the bottom of the power structure.  She had been reduced to living in fear under a dresser.  Since my cat had just passed, I took her in.

I guess that's why I feel for your situation.  In Panda's case, the condo they were living in just wasn't big enough - a large house would have allowed them to spread out a bit.  She was very happy as an only kitty in my apartment until she passed away.

I really hope it gets better!

 

[saigo]

awe thanks April! I'm fortunate that we live in a 3,000sf house with 3 floors, I figure they should be able to coexist! Things are going extremely well since I posted this. I really haven't changed anything, except that I contacted the lady who got her out of her previous situation and told her I thought I'd have to rehome her. I have concentrated on  rewarding her good behavior, and isolating her if she attacks. We have not had an attack since last sat. They have all been out together and she is ignoring zyra. Zyra does keep a very good eye on her but she isn't living in fear like before. I have even been leaving her door open at night and she just comes and goes as she wants. Not sure why all of a sudden she's decided its not worth it but I'm really pleased I don't have to be breaking up cat fights 

 

[aprilprey]

That is fabulous!  I agree, having that much space (and multi-level too) helps a lot. 

Glad to hear the girls are learning to coexist.  Sounds like they just had to work out who had what territory.

 

[alyseal]

I had a similar situation, with one cat trying to beat up another, but how it "resolved' (if you can call it that) is that the real alpha stepped in and beat down the trouble maker.  In my situation it was two betas fighting to see who was better, both were bothering each other, but one was clearly more of the instigator.  Emmitt is my oldest, and the alpha, and he finally had enough of it and beat poor Timmy down, and bullied him mercilessly for a while, and still gives him the evil eye on occasion to keep him in his place. 

Nothing I did worked.  Not keeping them in separate spaces, (eventually, one would get into the others and trouble would start,) not the Feliway spray, nothing.   But Emmitt is doing a pretty good job of keeping the peace.  I think Timmy has gotten the message that he isnt in line for the throne, and now he pretty well is mostly concerned with towing the line so Em doesnt thunk him one. 

Mind you, Im not encouraging you to do the same, I didnt set out for it to happen that way, but thats how it played out.  They basically had to set the hierarchy up themselves and I just had to make sure no one seriously got hurt in the process. 

Good luck, its a very stressful situation. 

 

[saigo]

Thanks for the reply Alyseal. Yes it can be very stressful, so far so good we are on day 9 of no fights 

 

[saigo]

Hi everyone,

thought I would give you an update, all has gone very well. Casper is a changed girl. The spray bottle to break up fights is a thing of the past! I'm amazed at her change. We have the occasional spat where one gets in the others space but nothing too serious.  I haven't had to lock her in her room for months. The picture below literally brings tears to my eyes, this is Singer and Casper together under the tree!! Singer seems like she's extending her paw to say "lets give mom a really good Christmas" I can't believe these two got this close to each other without a hiss! Zyra and Casper still have issues but there are no fights, makes things so much more bearable! I also discovered that Casper just loves red!! When I took the tree down I went to put the blanket in the box and she wouldn't get off it, so I put it on the couch and she sleeps on it day and night!

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• saigo
• Jan 16, 2014