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" I noticed Buns legs sticking out awkwardly at times when he was just sitting, which is also indicative." - I noticed this too but while he was laying down. Or that Bane would be too exhausted to move it so he just stayed like that. But definitely awkward in it's positioning (even for a cat).Hi @ S Sweetkittycats
That is very perplexing. Interesting that Bun received Convenia as well, and I included that in the history because his nail infection happened not too long before the mystery illness. One notable difference from what you've described is that Bun never had a fever, although in my opinion 39.9C isn't a "high" fever in a cat. A vet might have a different opinion of course, and I should qualify that I have no specific knowledge or training in veterinary medicine, or clinical medicine for that matter!! I'm in medical research so I don't deal with patients, but rather with patient data. Also the blood work in Batman and Bane has never suggested an infection, although this is not something that can be proven or disproven 100% through a blood test only.
What is similar is that there was variation in symptoms day to day although i could see a general trend with Bun declining until a nadir, and then improving. I charted that Bun first appeared lethargic 11 days after vaccine, but it wasn't a sudden dramatic event. I think he was a bit off before that like you mention with your kitties, and I just wasn't attentive enough to notice it until it got quite bad. Reading your synopsis now reminded me when Bun was so weak and I could tell that he wanted to get up but couldn't. I got my mom to come over because she is his favourite person, and when he saw her he gave the saddest little meow in the world because he couldn't run up for pets, it broke my heart.
I'm going to call Bun's mystery illness GBS for convenience, even though that isn't a diagnosis in cats. "Coonhound disease" is a veterinary diagnosis that has a similar pathology, but I'm going with GBS. I'm mainly going to refer to this because I do see similarities with what you describe in Batman and Bane and my Bun and this is what I did my research on. Ie. I've read a lot of data based research papers in both human and veterinary medical journals and have fair knowledge of the condition now. When it comes to any other cat illness I know about as much as the next person who has googled some symptoms.
A descriptive (not diagnostic) term for what I believe happened in Bun is acute peripheral polyneuropathy, and this is key. To break it down:
neuropathy - a disfunction of nerves, which are comprised of bundles of connected neurons that are the building blocks. The main kinds of neurons are sensory (related to senses & perception. sight, hearing, touch, pain, heat etc), motor (muscle involvement, movement), autonomic (automatic functions; heart beating, breathing, digestive processes, etc), and cranial (head and face). A neuropathy can involve one or all types of neurons, and it is not an all or nothing deal as impairment can range from mild to complete.
This is a good video of a neurological exam in an animal , just for reference. For someone that is untrained (including myself) and doesn't have experience performing the tests in multiple patients it is difficult to make any conclusions, but I think the video is informative as far as describing how neuropathy may present.
- Motor neuron involvement is the easiest to notice such as when there is abnormal movement. A deep tendon reflex test can be diagnostic, and this is something I tried on Bun, the patellar (knee kick) reflex. I made a little hammer using an eraser as the head
. It *seemed* to me that his reflex was dulled or absent when i compared to my other cats, but I really didn't have enough confidence in my testing skill to be able to make a conclusion. The neurologist however was able to confirm that there was no reflex.
- Sensory motor involvement can be tested in a multitude of ways, perhaps most simply by a pin-prick test, and I also subjected poor Bun to this. But again, if you don't have a good baseline for how the cat normally responds it really won't tell you much unless sensation is entirely absent, which is less likely as typically there is impairment and not complete ablation. You can also look up veterinary proprioception tests, and some of them are not too bad for kitty, only involve putting kitty in weird positions and doing funny walks. I noticed Buns legs sticking out awkwardly at times when he was just sitting, which is also indicative.
- Autonomic nerve impairment might be manifested by a multitude of things such as constipation, elevated heart rate, salivation, etc. Autonomic dysfunction can be a life threatening situation of course, such as when the breathing apparatus or the heart are severely affected.
- Lastly cranial nerve involvement, there's 12 of them and it gets quite complex. I mentioned that I noticed Bun was sleeping with his eyes open which can be caused by impaired function of cranial nerve VII. And I don't mean droopy but not completely shut, I mean wide open.
peripheral - outside of the brain and spinal cord aka central nervous system (CNS). Hence, "peripheral neuropathy" means that there is damage/impairment of the nerves outside the CNS. A central neuropathy may be related to a brain tumor, stroke, blood clot, and one needs to eliminate the possibility of CNS involvement. It seems unlikely in your case since 2 cats are affected, and I think any decent vet would be able to diagnose a CNS event during a visit, perhaps with the exception of a brain tumor which can have an infinite number of manifestations. Central neuropathies are more likely to be "all or nothing" than peripheral ones.
poly - many. "Polyneuropathy" therefore meaning many nerves are affected. This also helps to narrow down the diagnosis, because it points away from a specific physical injury. One observes whether symptoms are confined to one limb, or one side of the body, which would point away from GBS.
acute - sudden and severe onset. Not necessarily meaning that it appears within a minute and that it is life threatening. But we distinguishe the symptoms from others such as diabetic neuropathy which has a gradual onset and is a chronic condition. Severe is a relative term, severe enough to disrupt normal everyday functioning.
So with that lengthy but I hope not too technical description, does it seem that your cats are exhibiting "acute peripheral polyneuropathy?" Because if yes, there are actually *very* few possible causes, and the most probable one is immune mediated destruction of nerves, aka GBS. The others are poisoning/toxin mediated, and idiopathic ie. unknown cause.
Let me know if you think it fits, and I can expand a bit on what to expect
And here is my Bun video, i see the link is broken.
Bun
Your video looks exactly like what Batman is presently going through (he's also black so he looks similar too!). The stiff, almost limping painful walk. I'm so glad Bun made a full recovery. Batman is eating like a champ now but I had to hold the bowl under his chin so he could eat it. Batman's in better spirits than how Bane was when he was having his lethargy and difficulties walking but Batman never got Convenia (which I think combined with the vaccine reaction gave Bane an extra tough go of it).
Bane is almost 100% but you can tell he's still having some trouble walking. I hope Batman gets over this too.
And I agree with this so much: "What is similar is that there was variation in symptoms day to day although i could see a general trend with Bun declining until a nadir, and then improving." - the way I described it to the vet was a constant up and down but first it was an up and down graph going down, until it became an up and down graph going up.
The fact that Bun didn't have a fever gives credence to the idea of GBS (as I think is what's happing with my cats too although they did have fevers).
The virus my kitties picked up may have been at the vet because someone there mentioned there are a lot of sick dogs in at the moment because some flu is going around. Also, their immune systems may have been lowered temporarily by the vaccines as well.
The vet says 101.8F (38.8C) is a normal temperature for cats so both vets thought 39.9C (103.82F) was quite high and concerning.
I'm wondering if the formulation in these vaccines has changed because never in my many years of owning cats and getting them vaccinated has anything like this ever happened. I wouldn't have even believed it except it happened to both my cats very shortly afterwards.
But I agree, this seems neurological in nature. And very similar to what I've seen in humans who get GBS.
