Newly Adopted 2 Yr Old Feral From Hoarding Situation

[veronica00]

Thank you @Willowy I wish I could have your attitude. I just miss Petey so much and Charlie and I have literally latched onto each other since his passing. If I ever did anything to put Charlie at risk I honestly could not handle it. That plus I'm a worrier even in the best conditions.

The shelter made it sound like these cats lived in a sanitary bubble. They were all bred together, none were outside or exposed to cats outside their family. Conditions were clean and the cats were well cared for. The woman even kept 2 of them. Although people have terrible images of death and disease from hoarding situations (myself included) this was not like that. She wasn’t bringing in cats off the street and keeping them in unsanitary conditions. I think that’s when it’s dangerous because the cats are exposed to so many unknowns when taking in tons of strays.

 

[maggiedemi]

Wow, it cost $900 to test for FIV & FELV? I had no idea it was that expensive. If the test cost that much, I would tend to believe it, if it said that he is negative. Plus, FIV is spread by very deep bites usually between unneutered male cats. Plus Milo looks so healthy with clear eyes. The photos I've seen with cats with FIV usually have runny eyes.

 

[veronica00]

The entire home visit came to $900. But I made the home visit appointment to do that testing. Almost half of that fee was for sedation and reversal. Plus the house call fee and the travel fee etc. I don't think I would use this vet again, but I was desperate and knew I would never get Milo into a carrier.

 

[maggiedemi]

Wow, you've done so much for Milo already! Please don't give up, I think things will turn out just fine.

 

[cosmic cats]

Hi Veronica00,

I only just logged in and am getting back, First of all, I think you are doing a great job with Milo and it sounds as if the house he came from was a very good one and its great the tests that were done were negative..and recently so. That all sound very good/promising to me. I just feel there is a lack of information "out there" re FIV testing though, so I had mentioned it in case some of it was not known to you....(you seen to know a lot about testing though)

If you wanted to retest him, you wouldnt have to wait 2 months necessarily. After one month, you could do a real time PCR test (it looks for antigens I believe, whereas most kits vets use look for FIV antibodies, I understand) Pobably best to ask a vet/vets re all this but I have been told its best to wait a month after last contact with other cats before testing via real time PCR.)

Could you/ would you want to keep Milo separate for a month, instead of 2? I have kept cats isolated in the past before testing and just kept them as stimulated, relaxed as possible. The time went very quickly actually and as long as I gave them lots of attention, played relaxing music, made the area "cat safe" etc, it was OK for my boys. Of course I understand testing Milo is difficult (and costly) and you mightn't wish to do it again for these reason alone.

So, no, you wouldn't have to wait 8 weeks if you got a real time PCR test done. If you wanted to retest him for antibodies (if the vet tested for antibodies, that is) then I believe its recommended you wait longer than one month after last contact with another cat, to allow time for antibodies to show up as it can takes weeks for them show up, I believe. I think its generally recommended to wait 8-12 weeks re this but I am not sure , Id need to revise my info re this. But again, I suggest you ask a vet/vets re all this and how long to wait as I am not an expert and things might have changed since I researched it online and spoke to a scientist about it. I personally waited 12 weeks after isolating my cat kid (in question) before retesting for antibodies at the vet clinic (I also retested via real time PCR at the same time).

Again, I think its fortunate you adopted a cat who came from what sound like a very insular environment and where cats were recently tested. My suggestion is just that , a suggestion if you wanted to do another FIV test given your guys are still basically living seperate to each other. I didn't mean to create this anxiety in you, but since he is already isolated I thought perhaps waiting one more month might be Ok. Again, I think its fortunate Milo came from the house he did ...if it had been a household with new rescue cats joining the household on an ongoing basis and no testing being done that would be quite a different situation, in my opinion (and I fully understand many of the wonderful rescue folk/shelters simply cant afford to test their rescued cats or all of them). You are doing a great job, I think, going to such much care and effort .

One more thing, even if cats test pos re FIV antibodies, it CAN just be because they are vaccinated, or in the case of kittens less than 6 months (I think its 6 months. generally) it CAN be that they simply have picked up antibodies from their infected mum (which havent cleared from the body yet) - but they actually don't have the infection (at the time of testing).

More reasons to try and test the best way/s if possible, I feel.

Again, I think you are doing a great job with everything.

 

[veronica00]

I can't even read your entire post C cosmic cats

Why are you picking on this situation? Because he came from a house with 28 cats? They were all related and all indoor only. Much safer than a house with 4 cats where cats were brought in as strays or outdoor cats!!!!
I just lost my best friend at a young age to a disgusting disease and making me question what I am doing for my current cats?!?!

Do you have any idea how ridiculously guilty and worried i am all the time?!?!?
Do you think everyone who adopts a cat tests multiple times and months apart?
The shelter tested 2 months ago and i retested at great stress and expense 2 months later and both are negative.. What do you want me to do?? Test monthly?? Do you realize the trauma i put this cat through who ultimately had to be sedated???

 

[veronica00]

All you cat lovers who have adopted a cat into a home with existing cats:
How many FIV tests did you perform?
How long did you isolate your new cat?
I have a member telling me that I should keep my new cat isolated for another month or two to get yet another FIV test done even though I just did a second one on Monday.
I am losing my mind over this situation and strongly considering just bringing the new cat back to the shelter for my own peace of mind.

 

[maggiedemi]

Oh no, I hope you don't return Milo. I think everything will be okay. You can call your vet and ask about the accuracy of the test, but I would tend to believe the results of a $900 test that he is negative. He sure doesn't look sick in the photos and cats with immune system diseases usually don't look so healthy with clear eyes, no discharge. I never had my cats tested for FIV and put them together, they are fine after 3 years.

 

[surya]

My spidey sense tells me Milo is OK and does not have FIV. I think you would feel guilty if you took him back. I know he's not the tame boy you wanted, but he will come around.

 

[Draco]

After two tests, and a "clean" hoarder environment, I am sure Milo is FIV-free. If you want to keep them separated for a peace of mind with interaction through gates, go ahead!

I'd just follow proper introduction and take things slow to ensure things go well and not to stress Milo out, considering he's unsocialized.

 

[Norachan]

Hi veronica00

I don't think you need to worry about Milo interacting with your other cats at all.

I have 22 cats. All of my cats are either feral born rescues or pet cats that other people dumped. I had 35 at one point, but I managed to get the kittens and the adoptable ones into new homes. The ones with me now are a bit too skittish to be re-homed.

They were all blood tested and vaccinated when I first brought them indoors. I have had three FIV+ cats. Two of the older boys are no longer with me, sadly. I have one young female FIV+ cat who was only about 6 months old when I found her, so I guess she must have been infected by her mother.

None of my other cats have had any health problems from living with the FIV+ cats. They all play together, groom each other and share food and water bowls. I'm sure Milo does not have FIV, but even if he did it's no big deal! The disease is transmitted by deep tissue bites or sexual contact. If the cats are all spayed and neutered and you take the introductions slowly there is no way your other cats would become infected even if Milo were FIV+, which he isn't.

Some of my cats were really wild when I first found them. A couple of them couldn't be touched at all for the first few months and used to hide from me all the time. They come around though. Just let Milo take things at his own pace. If he has been living in a house with someone feeding him he is a socialised feral at the very least. It sounds like he's just skittish to me though. Once he has settled in and realised that you are his new care-giver he'll be fine.

 

[theyremine]

Two tests are enough. . First, the hoarder cats were indoor only. Secondly, in a hoarding situation with unneutered cats, FIV would spread quickly and most if not all would be infected. The fact that none of the 5 hoarder cats tested positive is very good news. Milo was tested. Enough! (I do agree with Norachan that FIV does not spread easily among neutered cats. It does spread through deep biting encountered in intact males fighting over mates and females are sometimes infected when mating.)

I would just proceed with introductions. I have used baby gates (stacked one on top of the other). Walmart has the best prices.

I don't want to be negative, but the more I hear about Milo and the vet, the more I feel I have to speak up. Please find a vet who has more experience with ferals/semiferals.

 

[maggiedemi]

How are things going with Milo today?

 

[veronica00]

Thank you all for your responses. I know losing my special Petey recently has changed my relationship with my pets. I felt very responsible that I couldn't save him and watched him suffer for 4 days in that ICU trying. I still cry constantly from grief, sorrow and guilt. This has made me overly protective of Charlie. If I ever introduced a disease into his home I would never forgive myself. On the flip side, Charlie needed Petey and he needs a new friend since his grief losing Petey is similar to my own.

All of your replies were helpful to me. Norachan I read your post just before falling asleep and it gave me a lot of peace of mind.

I believe Milo is human unsocialized. I believe his owner would go in and out of the room for feedings and litter cleanings and they probably hid from her when she did. I don't think he has ever had patting or human contact.

M maggiedemi Milo is doing well today. I am already very attached to him. He still hisses sometimes when I come into the room but not ALL the time. I also bought a standing gate at Petsmart after work last night and it is working really well. Today I am working from home so his bedroom door is open with the gate. Tomorrow I will be at work for 11 hours but then on Saturday I plan to let Milo out of his room. I'm not sure he will ever go back in there so I want to be sure I am home for a couple days to watch interaction.

theyremine I agree, I will not be using that vet again. She almost had me bringing him back on Monday instead of going through with the appointment. But I know Milo will come around in time. I also think $900 for a vet visit is absurd.

I still have moments of worry - what if he has FIP, what if he has FIV, etc. Petey's disease knocked me off balance and I may always have this terrifying fear of not being able to save and protect my furbabies. I've been divorced, lost loved ones and watched my father die, and I have never felt grief as profound as I have felt these past 5 weeks. A lot of people don't understand that, but I promised to protect him and I didn't.

 

[veronica00]

This morning I was going to take the day off from work and start introductions for a 3 day weekend. I let Milo out and he was exploring for about 5 minutes. Charlie was there and there was no hissing or growling, just curiosity and some fear from Milo.

After 5-10 minutes or so Milo went back in his room and I heard the sound of loud diarrhea. I cleaned it up.. it smelled horrible. I am thinking this is stress related. I had sent a fecal sample to the vet yesterday but she probably won't receive it until Monday. Should I have another test done? Being Friday I'm not sure when the results will be back. I put him back in his room - should I not let him out until I hear something next week?

The shelter gave him a de-wormer when he arrived in August just as standard protocol. Drontal I think but I don't have the paperwork. His poop was completely solid yesterday.

 

[veronica00]

Well thanks for your input. It's not like I'm living every second of every day worrying I'm going to make the same mistakes I made with Petey.

I'm returning Milo to the shelter tomorrow. Just can't live with the constant worry.

 

[theyremine]

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you'll reconsider.
I lost a cat to cancer. She was fine until one day she wasn't. Not eating, acting off. Took her immediately to the vet and she treated her with fluids, anti nausea shot, and antibiotic. I took her home and she was worst. So bad I knew she was dying. Took her back, after xrays, I was told she had cancer and was in congestive heart failure. My vet recommended euthanasia right then and there. I was crushed.
Four months later, I adopted a new cat. I took her to the vet all the time, for every little thing. Finally, my vet told me to stop bringing the cat in and relax. So I know and understand your angst.
I had to face my fears and get over my feelings of guilt. I pray that you can do the same.

 

[weemomma]

Can I say that I really do hope you reconsider taking him back.

I have been in your shoes before. I lost my soulmate when William died three years ago. I still cry over him nearly every week. I have projected all of those fears and worries on his little sister, Hariette. I even asked the vet after he had passed if she thought Hariette would be lonely and her honest opinion was no. As much as I hate to admit it, she was right. Hariette couldn’t care less about having a companion with her. I realized that I just wanted to fill that ache in my heart that had been left behind. I lost him in a way that I still kick myself over. If I hadn’t been distracted by his little sister’s illness, maybe I would have seen that he was dying. Maybe I could have done more. Maybe he would still be here.

Then, back in July of this year, some force in the universe dropped little Charlie in my lap. Literally. He is large and in charge, but I had all of the same fears that you did. What if he’s sick and gets Hariette sick as well? What if I can’t get him and Hariette to stop hissing at one another? What if Hariette hates me forever? When Hariette got sick a could of weeks ago, I immediately broke down. I blamed myself and I even asked her vet if they thought I needed to get rid of Charlie. In the end, everything was alright. She got better and they still hiss because Charlie is a baby and doesn’t understand that the old lady doesn’t want to be pounced on. However, each day I breathe a little easier that things are alright.

That fear of losing your soul mate will never go away. I can say with 100% certainty that adding Charlie to my house has not made that ache go away. I still obsessively watch Hariette’s eating habits and pooping and everything. I still diagnose her with all manner of terrible illnesses based on what I see her doing. In the end, she is fat, happy, and healthy.

I have another little girl who is still semi feral. She is deaf and came off the streets. She is the sweetest thing but we have a fight when it comes to vets and pills. Much like Milo, she screams and fusses when we go. However, each time she comes to me for a head scratch or wants to come inside to play with Charlie, I see it as a personal victory. Will she ever be completely tamed? No, but that’s alright. She is such a sweet, loving, bold little girl who simply wants love. She is sassy about who she allows in her space, she might hit me a little too hard with her paws from time to time, but she is a joy. In spite of a disability and the fact that she is feral, she has a life and a person who adores her. I have thought about giving her up because she does spend a lot of time alone, but I am always stopped by the thought that no one could ever love her as much as I do in the face of her flaws.

And that’s what I want to impress upon you. This little guy just wants love. In all of the ways that you are willing and able to give it. He has a good home and a wonderful life now. It’s a little extra work to socialize him, but I honestly think if you give him time, he will surprise you. It is very hard to trust that all of the tests and doctors are right. I have been there! I have pestered vets until they had asked that I simply wait for them to call me. I have been that crazy cat mom who could only see darkness in a wide, dark chasm. I guess I still am in a lot of ways. But...it does get better.

I am really sorry for such a long winded response. I just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone in this. If you need to talk, feel free to message me. I am always here to lend an ear.

 

[Summercats]

veronica00
If there is an issue, which you are not even aware there is, the chance of transmission is small.
I was recommended to get my cat checked two months after leaving the shelter. That was decent advice not meant to stir you up. You seem to be reacting wildly to advice and are probably creating more stress for the animals as they can sense it.
It seems you do not want the cat and are looking for excuses to return him.

 

[veronica00]

S Summercats you were recommended to get your cat checked for what 2 months after leaving the shelter? Something specific or a checkup.

Yeah well 5 weeks ago I watched my cat struggling to breath with his head hanging out of a steel cage after spending 4 excruciating days trying to save his life only to hold him in my lap and watch him die while trying to jump away. Sooo, I may be a little more concerned than you would be but I understand not everyone is as sensitive.

The only advise I reacted to was C cosmic cats because he/she went on and on about something 99% of people do not do. You get the all clear from the shelter vet.. you generally take it as all clear. I spent almost a thousand dollars on a newly adopted cat to verify the all clear 2 months after the all clear was given.

I know people who don't spend that kind of money on a well loved family pet let alone on a newly adopted strange cat. I do not look for excuses to NOT take care of animals.