New Kitten

[alexisparmley]

today I went to the pet shop and came across an adorable tabby, shes 10 weeks old and the store employees said shes been there forever so i decided to give her a pet and she was so happy she jumped into my arms! i said "well i can't not take her home!" i adopted her and i gave her the name Venus.
The only problem is i already have a 7 year old tabby named Leo. he has never really interacted with other cats and unfortunately when i put her box down Leo rushed in not knowing she was there and he had a bad reaction! i know cats do not immediately get along and i put her things in a separate room and theyre separated now. Leo seems to be a bit territorial but overall just has general dislike which i completely expect!
My reason for this thread is to get some advice unique to Leo. Leo has never really met other cats, only two to be exact and each interaction was no longer than 10 minutes or less. Leo has lived with tons of dogs and seems to be fine with them. one of the reasons i wanted a cat is because i felt like Leo could use a friend who is a cat and might make him less clingy to me and less lonely when i'm away or busy at home!
Sorry for the long post but i'd like some advice for a new kitty who seems very outgoing and an older cat whos a little adjustable and fine with dogs and extremely friendly. a question i do have is Leo is an older male and Venus is a tiny female, she seemed to shrink under Leo's gaze and I'm a bit worried but overall i think it's okay since Leo didnt try to attack her at all, he's just hissing and standoffish. Please any advice is welcome

 

[Mamanyt1953]

What I'm going to do is give you links to a couple of articles here that are excellent for introducing cats to each other!

How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide
Introducing Cats To Cats
Do Cats Get Jealous? (and What To Do About It When They Do)

I will caution you that this will take just as long as it takes. Don't be impatient, you can only go as fast as the most reluctant cat is comfortable with. I will also add that many people confuse "scent swapping" with "site swapping," and they are both necessary. "Scent swapping" usually comes first, and is when you rub a cloth on one cat and then the other, to mingle their scents on both of them. "Site swapping" is making sure that BOTH cats have full access to the house in turns...kitten in bedroom for part of each day with resident cat out, and resident cat in the bedroom for part of each day with kitten out. This is CRITICAL! This allows the kitten to get to know the entire house comfortably, and makes sure that BOTH cats' scents are EVERYWHERE, making it "shared territory" to their noses and mind!

If Leo is already tolerating her presence with nothing more than hisses and some pouting, this might not take long at all!

 

[Hellenww]

Congratulations on the new baby! You're right to keep them in seperate rooms at least until youget her checked out by your vet.
Here's the Ultimate guide.

How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide

 

[alexisparmley]

What I'm going to do is give you links to a couple of articles here that are excellent for introducing cats to each other!

How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide
Introducing Cats To Cats
Do Cats Get Jealous? (and What To Do About It When They Do)

I will caution you that this will take just as long as it takes. Don't be impatient, you can only go as fast as the most reluctant cat is comfortable with. I will also add that many people confuse "scent swapping" with "site swapping," and they are both necessary. "Scent swapping" usually comes first, and is when you rub a cloth on one cat and then the other, to mingle their scents on both of them. "Site swapping" is making sure that BOTH cats have full access to the house in turns...kitten in bedroom for part of each day with resident cat out, and resident cat in the bedroom for part of each day with kitten out. This is CRITICAL! This allows the kitten to get to know the entire house comfortably, and makes sure that BOTH cats' scents are EVERYWHERE, making it "shared territory" to their noses and mind!

If Leo is already tolerating her presence with nothing more than hisses and some pouting, this might not take long at all!

Thank you!! Leo is a very pouty cat when he doesn't like something but hes extremely tolerable to things, i just worry since hes never been around another cat. I will definitely do the scent swapping because right now hes just cautious around the door shes in not really wanting to interact and when he saw her he only growled a little and hissed. but i hope once they get used to each other they can become friends!

 

[Mamanyt1953]

I think there's a good chance that they will! At worst, they will peacefully coexist. And even if they aren't "best buds," they will both benefit from the presence of another cat in their lives.

 

[rubysmama]

Congrats on the new kitten! Venus is so lucky you went to the pet store today.

As already mentioned, keep her separated from Leo until she's vet checked, just to be sure she doesn't have anything she could pass on to him.

And since Venus is only 10 weeks old, here's one more TCS article on cat introductions that might be helpful:
How To Introduce A Kitten To An Older Cat | TheCatSite

Good luck. Keep us posted on their progress. And definitely post some pics of Venus when you can.

 

[alexisparmley]

Congrats on the new kitten! Venus is so lucky you went to the pet store today.

As already mentioned, keep her separated from Leo until she's vet checked, just to be sure she doesn't have anything she could pass on to him.

And since Venus is only 10 weeks old, here's one more TCS article on cat introductions that might be helpful:
How To Introduce A Kitten To An Older Cat | TheCatSite

Good luck. Keep us posted on their progress. And definitely post some pics of Venus when you can.

Shes got all her vaccines and is spayed but shes still young for rabies so i'll be calling the center next week to schedule first week in December as recommended! On all her paperwork so far it seems she's very healthy but in a just in case scenario they will be kept separate. I just spent some time with her and she was being very loving and nibbled on my fingers and i got her scent on a towel and brought it to Leo to see how he'd react but instead of the towel he smelled my arm and hands and was very upset and hissed a couple times and growled now hes back to pouting! but overall from the articles I've read and you all sent this seems to be a very normal reaction and not as extreme so heres hoping to getting them used to one another! Thank you! (also she's a little too quick for a decent picture right now hehe)

 

[rubysmama]

Letting Leo get used to her scent is part of the introduction phase. Just watch to make sure he continues eating and using the litter box normally, and doesn't become too withdrawn. Give him lots of attention. Tell him you still love him, and that he is not being replaced.

 

[ArtNJ]

I only did like 2 days of isolation (when home, full isolation at night or when sleeping) with our current kitten and our 3 year old because I knew he was gentle and low key. He hissed some and the kitten wasn't sure at first either, but it wasn't overly theatrical or I would have bailed on my idea to go fast and done a real introduction. Within a week or so they were playing tag and within 12 days or so they were wrestling. So nicely too, the big cat is considerate and has never made her squeal. Still no cuddling/grooming yet.

Anyway the point of the story is that its always ok on the kitten side within a few days to a week max, and big cats react differently but never hurt the kitten. So its easier than two adult cats, usually, and you can kind of see how it goes. I've done this a few times so I have a good sense of what is a mild reaction and what isn't, so its fine if you want to do a longer intro process to feel confident or whatnot, just saying its not always needed.

 

[alexisparmley]

I only did like 2 days of isolation (when home, full isolation at night or when sleeping) with our current kitten and our 3 year old because I knew he was gentle and low key. He hissed some and the kitten wasn't sure at first either, but it wasn't overly theatrical or I would have bailed on my idea to go fast and done a real introduction. Within a week or so they were playing tag and within 12 days or so they were wrestling. So nicely too, the big cat is considerate and has never made her squeal. Still no cuddling/grooming yet.

Anyway the point of the story is that its always ok on the kitten side within a few days to a week max, and big cats react differently but never hurt the kitten. So its easier than two adult cats, usually, and you can kind of see how it goes. I've done this a few times so I have a good sense of what is a mild reaction and what isn't, so its fine if you want to do a longer intro process to feel confident or whatnot, just saying its not always needed.

Thank you! This morning she was feeling restless so after Leo ate his breakfast and i felt he was all done and he left the room i decided to shut the door and let her run around in the room to get some energy out. He seems to still understand his room is his but hes just become very withdrawn i'd say. hes seen her a few times (all on accident shes really quick lol) but overall they have never physically interacted he seems just to not want to deal with it, which is fine. He doesnt seem to be exactly angry with me because he still comes to be pet and use his litter box and eat his food but he just seems to be extremely wary. a few times after i played with her i washed my hands just so he could get a break from her smell and he could calmly let me pet him.
Sorry for the ramble but my point was Leo has always been adjustable and I'd say right now he's trying to adjust but i feel bad that hes isolating himself, i think hes slowly getting used to her scent (its been a day of course not expecting a miracle) i know when getting a new kitten they say don't let the personality's clash of resident cats but i felt like Leo could do with some energy especially since he does still play but by himself, even if theyre not best buds i hope they can play together. is there anyway i can make Leo less withdrawn and more willing to come out just normally? i don't want them to interact just yet of course but he barely even moves around the rest of the house

 

[ArtNJ]

Na, its about time. There are things you can try if its starts going poorly, but time is the name of the game. Your adult cat seems to be reacting totally normally, so you will need to wait and see how this goes.

Try stomping your feet a bit as you exit the room, and cracking the door and stomping as you enter. Not hard enough to terrorize a brand new kitten of course, but a little bit sends the message to give ya space. Total isolation is good for a few days, and its a good skill to develop anyways to prevent darting out the front door, if a cat starts to get ideas as some do.

 

[alexisparmley]

Guys!! a little update: Leo actually wanted to interact with Venus! I let her out for about an hour with him and he growled a few times throughout the hour just watching her. then he got comfortable enough to approach her at a distance and she was in the laundry room hiding and leo starting meowing and found her (so he basically cornered her on accident) and when he smelled her she hissed and clawed but he didnt even flinch! he backed away slowly and turned his back then started making that half meow half purr sound! kinda like hes saying follow me i wont hurt you!!!! he did that all the way back to the living room very slowly and gave her plenty of distance while making that noise every once and awhile while stopping! i think the moment he had her cornered he realized she was way more terrified of him and how shes just a baby! i mean Leo had his whisker ripped out by my baby nephew and he didnt even bat an eye so i thought he'd be good with her
i'm so excited Venus is still clawing a bit at him but i think when she finally warms up they'll be good buds :')

 

[alexisparmley]

who knew Venus would wind up the one who'd have to get used to Leo
Theyre both basically identical too!! Hes being a good big brother to her

 

[rubysmama]

Sounds like things are proceeding well. Lovely pics.

 

[alexisparmley]

Good morning! I have another inquiry. I'm afraid for Leo, he vomited for the first time in years yesterday, hes shoving his food down his throat, hes way on edge. Like i said yesterday the first time he actually interacted with Venus he was gentle and even happy however she got comfortable enough to chase him, he does not attack her but growls sometimes when he stops. I am very worried. I realize cats getting used to each other take time, time and time. but I'm scared, Leo decided to run out this morning and hes been an indoor cat for 7 years and it terrified me because we live on two wide acres with chickens and an aggressive rooster as well surrounded by trees and snakes sometimes slithering around.
He seems to like her and wants to interact but i'm afraid shes too much and instead of him trying to say no he'll continue to want to run and i'm separating them when Venus chasing him but in the future their food, water and litter will be in the same room and shes already trying her best to steal his food even if shes already eaten.
Did i jump the gun with Venus? Should i have gotten a kitten/older cat who would be more laid back and willing to be calm with interactions? Is she causing Leo way too much stress? they'd definitely would change over time but Leo seems to be waiting for a chance to run out again and his vomiting is scaring me. Leo wanting to leave the house is a very big deal breaker, I feel horrible but i will not sacrifice Leo's safety if he continues to try to get out. I love Venus so much already and its only been a couple days, i share a house with my father and my brother and we all have a small portion of the house to ourselves and although i can separate Venus and Leo for now in the future i will not be able to continue to do so and they'll HAVE to share space. As i wrote this Leo once again tried to run out, please help.

 

[ArtNJ]

I'm the politest fella in the world, so I'm gonna be straight with you. You've got yourself kind of worked up about this and need to breathe deep and calm down to properly evaluate how they are doing. Its a sign of loving your cat and not a sin, but its not needed. Everything gonna be fine. Sounds like its going good even.

Cats throw up. You can't use a single episode as proof of stress. Not when all you are describing for interactions is playing nice. Yes, kittens are super-charged. But if the big cat has had enough, he will stop. Run away. Hiss if none of that works. If he is stressed, he will hiss. Swat even. You are describing playing nice, with a little growling when he wants to be done. That is NORMAL.

But its been years since he threw up! Well, he *is* more active now, and he may have licked the kitten some (hair!) even if you didn't see it. If it is stress related -- well its once so far. Cats throw up. And they just started interacting directly. At most its something to watch.

Same with door darting. The kitten has brought out the play, made him younger. Cats can decide to dart at any time. Its not just a young cat thing. Its a "hey I got a new idea and I'm gonna try it out" thing. Its not a "help kitten, get me out of here" thing. If the cat thought the outside was an interesting possibility earlier, you would have had door darting earlier. If, and only if, a cat has had prior happy experiences with the outside, would they think of retreating there because a kitten is stressing them out. So yeah, you do see this with indoor/outdoor cats. But for a cat that doesn't go outside, its most likely not related to stress.

If something is *wrong* there will be traditional signs of anxiety. Running from the kitten. Hiding. Hissing. Swatting. Not eating. Not using litter box. Hyper vigilance -- you can't pet anymore because he is constantly on the lookout. Eating more is not a symptom of a problem -- its a symptom of a newly more active cat. Even if we do have some symptoms of anxiety, its only been one day since they started interacting. That needs repeating -- its only been a day since they started interacting! One day! Relax, breath deep. Sounds to me like the kitten is on the way to enriching your resident cats life. A good thing.

 

[alexisparmley]

I'm the politest fella in the world, so I'm gonna be straight with you. You've gotten off center on this and need to pull it together to properly evaluate how they are doing.

Cats throw up. You can't use a single episode as proof of stress. Not when all you are describing for interactions is playing nice. Yes, kittens are super-charged. But if the big cat has had enough, he will stop. Run away. Hiss if none of that works. If he is stressed, he will hiss. Swat even. You are describing playing nice, with a little growling when he wants to be done. That is NORMAL.

But its been years since he threw up! Well, he *is* more active now, and he may have licked the kitten some (hair!) even if you didn't see it.

Same with door darting. The kitten has brought out the play, made him younger. Cats can decide to dart at any time.

If you want to convince us that something is *wrong* we need to see signs of anxiety. Running from the kitten. Hiding. Hissing. Swatting. Not eating. Not using litter box. Hyper vigilance -- you can't pet anymore because he is constantly on the lookout. Eating more is not a symptom of a problem -- its a symptom of a newly more active cat.

Sounds to me like the kitten has enriched your resident cats life. A good thing.

I know everything youre saying is true even my dad told me all this but I'm just a little scared i know Leo is reacting well and stuff but at my nature i have anxiety and Leo is very precious to me so seeing any different in his behavior makes me feel uneasy. i also was kind of shocked this morning due to him trying to run out, i do remain calm and i dont yell or chase but it just makes me uneasy.
I dont think there's something wrong, i know the behavior is normal but is there something i can do so Leo wont try to run outside? My acres have things that will hurt him and surrounded by trees and living next to a lake i do not know what he would encounter that could hurt him.
its a relief to hear his vomiting is ok and increased eating makes sense, i was worried it meant he was trying to shove it down before she came out.
Having a cat act the same for years and sudden changes is scary, Leo never interacted with a cat so long before so i'm wary. i suppose i just needed reassurance that hes ok and this is normal from multi cat owners. :/

 

[ArtNJ]

Well yeah, once a cat door darts once, they usually try again so your right to ask how to handle it! As you approach the door, stomp your feet a bit to gain some space. Not enough to cause terror, but really do it enough to communicate that the cat should back off a bit. It works. Coming in, crack the door and if the cat is there, let him see you stomping. If you are in heels from work and cant really stomp, I dunno. I seem to recall that some recommend throwing down keys or having a container full of quarters to throw down. Or an airhorn. Something like that. If Leo does get out, remember even a fat cat is faster than a human. So don't run or chase. Act nonchalant like its no big deal. Pet. Pick up firmly.

Keeping an eye on your cat is fine! We never get upset with questions here. Loving your cat and worrying is a sign of a good owner. But when it crosses over into unneeded anxiety, I try to say it like it is so folks don't worry themselves sick when its not needed. Which I think maybe you are doing a little bit.

Just keep an eye on things, and stop back in any time. If there are more episodes of throwing up and you don't see the resident cat licking the kitten, that might be an issue. But I'd be surprised if the kitten isn't a good thing for your cat. Sounds like its going pretty well!

 

[GreyLady]

I definitely recommend stomping to prevent the door dash too. Its useful for a lot of things, like biting feet/attacking ankles.

I totally agree that it seems like it will be a good thing for your cat. There's always a period where they need to learn their boundaries, especially the kitten. They will work it out, how much is an appropriate level of play and following. And then once they do you will see them play more and the older cat run away less, because the kitten has learned to read the cat's body language and understand when enough is enough. And the older cat will feel more conformable because of this.

Sounds like you are on the road to a happy multi-cat house... loved the picture of them too!

 

[rubysmama]

I understand your stress. You're a cat mom, and you're worried about your baby boy, Leo. But you're here, and asking questions, so that's all good.

When Leo threw up, was it undigested food, a hairball, or a clear liquid? That might help determine the cause.

And about the kitten trying to eat Leo's food, are you leaving kitten food out for her 24/7. She's still really young, so has a tiny tummy, that will get full fast, and also empty fast. So generally the advice for kittens is to leave dry kitten food out for them all the time. Once they're about a year old, then you start to measure what they eat. Some canned food is good too. You can buy small cans of kitten food at Petsmart, and other pet care stores.

And, lastly, definitely Leo running out the door is a concern. Here's a TCS article on How To Prevent Your Cat From Darting Out The Door | TheCatSite that might have some tips for you.