New kitten arriving and want to start feeding her raw right away

[harrylime]

Hi all,

This is my first post on this site and I have a few questions.

I grew up with cats my whole life in my parent's house, but am now just about to pick up my first kitten that I've will have to raise on my own, this week. Do you think I can start feeding her raw right away? She'll be 11.5 weeks old when I get her. I know that if I were buying store-bought canned food, there's both "kitten" and "cat" formula, and I don't know the difference. Does a kitten need something else added to a raw recipe that an adult cat doesn't?

I'm not too sure what she's being fed right now, but I'll find out when I pick her up. I'm not expecting her to love this food right away, but I really want to get her eating raw, as soon as possible for her health. I'm looking  around for a butcher that is willing to grind up chicken thighs for me, bone and all, so I don't have to grind it myself. Has anyone here had any luck getting a butcher to do that for you? 

If I were to buy this 5lb ground chicken/bones/organs from hare-today ( https://www.hare-today.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_32&products_id=61 ) is it ground finely enough for the bones to be edible with no problems?

Thanks for all the help!!!

 

[katluver4life]

Hello and welcome to TCS and to raw feeding!

Yes, you can certainly start her on raw right off. The main thing kittens need is a bit more fat, but feeding a good variety of proteins and at least 4 meals a day, she should be fine.

I get my ground raw from Hare Today. Their regular ground is very finely ground. You do not even see the bones. Once in awhile when washing my cats dishes off after eating theirs, I may find a small (and I mean tiny) piece. The coarse ground may have bigger pieces. I have been thinking of trying a batch of it to see if the meat is a bit chunkier for my 3.

Good luck and be sure to check out all the raw feeding resource articles on top of this forum. LOTS of info there.

 

[vball91]

Actually, most kittens take to raw right away. It's as if they instinctively recognize it as good food. Plus, they haven't had time to become junk food (i.e. kibble) addicts!

It is especially important for kittens to have a properly balanced diet. As Katluver4life mentioned, kittens generally need and can handle a higher fat percentage as they are still growing and have fast metabolisms. They also need enough calcium for proper bone development. The products from Hare Today are used by many on here and are high quality foods. I would definitely add the Alnutrition supplement to their ground foods though.

Some have had luck finding butchers that will grind up whole chicken thighs. It is more difficult to find one that will take the time to do the bones as well though.

I would encourage you to read the following at your leisure. It has pretty much everything you want to know about feeding raw.

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/264154/raw-feeding-resources

 

[harrylime]

Thanks for the replies! So much good info. I still have a few more questions...

So for example say I order 10lbs of ground chicken from hare-today. I don't need to add any bone supplements obviously, because ground bone is included in the meat, but do I still need to add Taurine for example? Basically I want to order EVERYTHING that I need all at once. So that's the 10lbs of "Ground Chicken/Bones/Organs" Which supplements needs to be added to give my cat everything she needs?

And once I find the "perfect recipe", I can just continue using this forever? It doesn't need to be switched up or made more interesting or anything for the sake of my cat's boredom?

Thanks!!!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

 
Thanks for the replies! So much good info. I still have a few more questions...

So for example say I order 10lbs of ground chicken from hare-today. I don't need to add any bone supplements obviously, because ground bone is included in the meat, but do I still need to add Taurine for example? Basically I want to order EVERYTHING that I need all at once. So that's the 10lbs of "Ground Chicken/Bones/Organs" Which supplements needs to be added to give my cat everything she needs?

And once I find the "perfect recipe", I can just continue using this forever? It doesn't need to be switched up or made more interesting or anything for the sake of my cat's boredom?

Thanks!!!

If you add Alnutrin (which you can buy with added calcium or WITHOUT added calcium, depending on what meats you are using)  it has Taurine in it, as well as other vitamins and minerals (copper, iron, zinc, vits B, D and E, salt.  The ground chicken mixture from Hare-Today has some Taurine in it naturally, just from the meat itself, but most of us add more, just to be on the safe side.  ( use Alnutrin with my Ground mixtures, and I use Call of the Wild with my boneless meat strips, as it even contains the needed liver 

)  You can buy Alnutrin without calcium from Hare Today.  I think they may sell both kinds, so be sure to get the correct one.

SO, for your 10 lbs of the Ground chicken/bones/organs, you would want to add Alnutrin for 10 pounds of meat (probably good to order the amount for 30 lbs I think it is, as you'll need it in the near future I suspect).  You might also want to order some Salmon Oil or some type of fish oil...some people use Krill Oil, others use Anchovy Oil...or others just feed Sardines once or twice a week.  Hare-Today sells them too! 

I don't know where you are located, but the more you order the better the shipping costs, really.  At least that's the way it is for me, since it's coming all the way across the continent.  I always try to order lots, plus it stays frozen better that way.  'Course, it is winter now, at least in most places (not the Southwest yet).  But I would consider ordering more than just the ground chicken mix, if your budget allows. 

I, personally would not want to feed the same food all the time, although some people do.  I have one cat,though, that currently is only eating the ground turkey mix.  No matter what else I offer him, he wants his turkey mix. But because turkey is so high in bones, I add plain ground turkey AND the ground turkey organ mix (still from Hare today) to the meat/organ/bone mix.  The basic rule of thumb is to feed at least 3 different proteins.  For instance...chicken, rabbit and turkey, or llama, goat and beef

.  (you get the idea)  With one of mine who isn't quite so picky, he eats strips of boneless meat, and he gets chuck roast, chicken breast (from Hare today), turkey thighs (also from Hare today), chicken hearts and gizzards (from hare today) pork (when I can find it without any additives), chicken thighs (when I can find it without any additives) and I guess that's all in his rotation right now.  He gets sick on raw liver, so he either gets freeze dried liver with Alnutrin with eggshell powder as his calcium, or he gets no freeze dried liver and Call of the Wild as his calcium AND liver. 

As far as cats getting bored with their food, my cat that eats only turkey USED to eat only lamb, then one day that was it.  He stopped eating.  Just like that.  So I had a hard time getting him to eat anything for a couple of weeks, then tried the lamb again, he ate it once and stopped again.  I got to message. Now I'm expecting that to happen any day with the turkey

.  I've tried and tried to sneak another protein into his turkey to get him used to something else, but he isn't having it. 

OK, now you probably have additional questions.  And I've got one for you.  Is that your new little in your Avatar picture?  She's adorable

.  When do you get her?

 

[harrylime]

Thanks for all of the replies! 

I live in NYC so I'm not TOO far from hare-today. So here is what my order looks like: (the 10lb portions are sold out)

rQFj46N.png

• harrylime
• Nov 18, 2013

I'm hoping the bones in the meet provide enough calcium that I don't need to add extra?

The fish oil gets added to the entire mix at the beginning, before I re-freeze everything in individual portions, correct?

Is there anything I'm missing for a complete meal?

In the future, I can use all of the same ingredients/supplements, but just substitute turkey instead of chicken for example?

And yes, that's my baby in my avatar! I'm flying to San Francisco to pick her up this week and then bringing her all the way back to NYC. Here are some more photos...

6wkfold5-2.jpg

• harrylime
• Nov 18, 2013

6wkfoldgirl4.jpg

• harrylime
• Nov 18, 2013

7wkfoldgirl4.jpg

• harrylime
• Nov 18, 2013

 

[andrya]

OMG. I think my heart just melted  

She's adorable!!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

With the Alnutrin,you do not need to add Taurine too.  It's included in the Alnutrin.  So, you are ordering a total of 20 lbs of the chicken, to start with vs the 10.  In the 2 lb chubs, it  might be easier to work with too, to make up a batch mixed with the water and Alnutrin and then refreeze in smaller portions.

NO, don't put the salmon oil in until you are ready to serve it up.  Also, once or twice a week you can give her an egg yolk, but you don't need to buy eggs from Hare-Today.  Also, lots of us feeding raw give furkids probiotics, but you can get those from a vitamin store.  We give them the same ones we take, mostly.  For a kitten though, I would start with 1/4 a human dose. (just open the capsules and mix it into the food)  That's all covered in the resources thread you were provided earlier.  

Since you are getting her from a breeder (I'm presuming here), is she already eating raw?  If so, do you know what they are feeding her?  She may be used to eating chunks of meat, since she is already weaned. 

Oh yes, to answer your last question, yes, if you were to buy a different ground mix, say turkey/organs/bone, then you would just add the same Alnutrin to that mix, add some salmon oil (optional, but always good) and you're good to go.  It's nutritionally complete with just the Alnutrin when adding to Hare Todays ground MIXES.  I made the mistake of ordering just ground turkey once, rather than the actual mix with organs and bones 

.  I could still use it to fill in, but only AFTER I ordered the correct stuff

 

[harrylime]

She's been eating a mix of raw and canned from the breeder so she should be ready to go with this raw recipe.

Regarding the Taurine, I just added it to the cart (haven't purchased yet)  because you mentioned that some of you guys like to add extra. 

So I'm going to buy the meat grind, mix in the Alnutrin, portion it out and stick it in the freezer (gonna use ziplock snack bags I guess?), and then thaw it before it's served, mix in some unscented salmon oil, and serve. Am I missing anything?

Thank you for all the help!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

By extra Taurine, I meant extra other than what is already in the meat itself.  The Alnutrin provides the extra. 

Sounds like you're ready to go.  Yes, ziplock snack bags should work perfectly.  What I do is use those and then put several of them inside a labeled freezer bag just for added protection.  When thawing, I always set them in a bowl in the fridge, because every once in awhile, one of those bags will leak

. 

 

[Willowy]

I'm going to recommend (if you didn't order yet) getting the 1-pound chubs. I suppose the 2-pound chubs aren't too much worse, but don't get the 5-pound (or larger) chubs because they take FOREVER to thaw! :lol3: Plus it's hard to find a container large enough to put it in so it leaks meat juice all over your fridge :/. And the price difference is really very small for the convenience.

You might want to get a little turkey or rabbit or whatever just to expose your little cutie to other flavors. Best to do it while she's young, rather than trying to convince an adult cat that turkey isn't poisonous .

And, yeah, the Alnutrin has all the taurine you'd need.

 

[harrylime]

So not only do they need to thaw, they need to reach room temperature, right? Any tricks to doing this quickly? Microwave? 

How do you guys mix large quantities? Just in a big bucket or something?

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Some cats like it straight from the fridge (cold) , some like it cool, some like it room temp.  It's try it straight from the fridge first, just cause that's the easiest.  For raw, I wouldn't put it in the microwave, personally, even on low, but that's just me.  Some folks just put the ziploc bag in a bowl of water to thaw it, and you could probably slightly warm it that way too.  Are you planning on freezing just one serving per bag, or a couple of servings per bag.  I actually freeze a day's worth per bag, put my cat's are older, so eat less.

I mix  mine up in a cooking pot (my pasta cooker) because it's the biggest pot I have and because I don't have a metal bowl.  I can mix up 5 lbs easily, probably could do 10 lbs, but don't like to mix up that much at any one time.

 

[Willowy]

Well, you have to thaw the chubs first (but keep them cold to preserve meat quality), then add the supplements and then re-freeze in single-serving sizes. It's the first thawing I was thinking about. . .you can still mix if it's slightly frozen in the middle but not if it's hard as a rock! And it can take several days for a 5-pound chub to not be hard frozen in the middle (or maybe my fridge is just too cold). When you microwave you run the risk of cooking it, even on low, so I don't think that's really a good idea.

 

[pinkman]

Hi! I too order from Hare Today and I live in NYC.

I actually do not mix the Alnutrin after thawing. I mix the Alnutrin every meal I feed - which I weigh. I order the two pound chubs for the most part, unless it's a certain protein that comes in only one pound. I thaw under running water, portion them in ice cube trays (which are approximately one ounce for me), and then freeze them. Afterwards, I pop them all out, and place them in freezer bags labeled with the protein's name. I take out a few cubes (well, more like nine or ten) daily, thaw them out again.

Every meal I weigh up 2 ounces, and one ounce and then add Alnutrin (I calculated how much Alnutrin you need per ounce). The reason I do this is because I often found that I wasted a lot of "meat water" before - which has many of the water soluble vitamins and taurine I assume. Using freezer bags it was very difficult for me to get all of the liquid out. Yeah, it seems like it takes a lot of time but I am now pretty quick at it.  If I upgrade to using containers instead of bags, then I will go back to adding Alnutrin by batch. 

Other supplements I use are Krill Oil and Salmon Oil (I rotate), probiotics, L-Lysine, and Lactoferrin. I also feed an egg yolk once a week, occasionally sardines. I also give the cats "chunky munchies" which are usually gizzards, hearts, or thighs with Call of the Wild. On occasion I also give necks, wingtips, any soft cartilage too. Green tripe is also another thing I feed on occasion. 

Kittens eat a lot! Bagel is getting close to six months old right now and he eats about six ounces of raw. Before he was eating maybe... 10 ounces? :O The proteins I fed Bagel were chicken, turkey, mutton, and duck before. Now that he eats less he can have some quail and pheasant too. Overall the proteins I feed now are: chicken, turkey, mutton, duck, rabbit, quail, goose, and pheasant. :> Occasionally pork.

 

[fhicat]

I'm going to recommend (if you didn't order yet) getting the 1-pound chubs. I suppose the 2-pound chubs aren't too much worse, but don't get the 5-pound (or larger) chubs because they take FOREVER to thaw!

Plus it's hard to find a container large enough to put it in so it leaks meat juice all over your fridge :/. 

I just buy the 5 lb ones because they're funny to handle. I have this GIANT mixing bowl (and I mean GIANT, I can sit inside the bowl, and I'm a guy, so that's saying something). It's hilarious because there's no space to put it anywhere in the kitchen, so I just put in on the cat tree.

 

[lehighluke]

 
So not only do they need to thaw, they need to reach room temperature, right? Any tricks to doing this quickly? Microwave? 

How do you guys mix large quantities? Just in a big bucket or something?

I always warm my food up...Ive never tried to give it cold.  Its easy, I portion it out into a plastic tupperware...nuke it for 15 sec, stir, nuke 15 more sec, stir

this is for 4oz for 2 cats, less microwave time for less food.

 

[harrylime]

So I am ready to mix everything together, but I'd rather not use the Alnutrin scoop. I have a precise food scale, does anyone know the exact amount of Alnutrin, in grams, that I need per pound of meat w/bones? 

Also, how much of this salmon oil do I add once I'm ready to serve?

 

[fhicat]

 
So I am ready to mix everything together, but I'd rather not use the Alnutrin scoop. I have a precise food scale, does anyone know the exact amount of Alnutrin, in grams, that I need per pound of meat w/bones? 

4 grams per lb of meat/bone/organ according to this page.

 

[harrylime]

Great, thanks!

So I'm mixing this all up now. I might've gotten in over my head a bit, trying to do 8lbs in once. Pretty difficult to mix. I'm assuming it's all supposed to have the same consistency in the end? Like no obvious separate liquid?