Need to know Alnutrin (non-calcium) ratio for home-cooked, and daily feeding amount

[Domino's Mom]

I'm unfortunately switching from raw to home-cooked and would like to know ratios for Alnutrin (not with added calcium) based on cooked meat. I have a full bag of Alnutrin from feeding her raw meat/bone/organ. I would be feeding her poached chicken, a 48-hr bone broth, liver, heart, green-lipped mussel powder, and Alnutrin. I also need to know how much to feed Domino per day. It's different than raw, yes?

The links on this site to older home-cooked recipe resources no longer exist on the Google drive. Any other resources?

I've fed my cat, Domino, raw food her whole life, which has been great. The pet store/shelter I got her from started me on it. She's had pre-made commercial brands like Raw Dynamics, BossCat, Vital, Answers+. But didn't always love it. I wasn't sure if it was the protein source or what. So I made the leap to Hare-Today mixed with supplements + omega a little over a year ago. Recently, she's had soft stools and some liquid drops outside that just are not resolving. Usually, it's short-term, and resolves after feeding her home-cooked chicken and broth, mixed with slippery elm and S.Boulardii+MOS. This time it's been better-back to worse-better-worse, etc. Based on an assumption of it taking 12-24 hr for food to pass, I think her body has been reacting to one or all of these: raw, the brand, the protein, oddly psylium husk. And I had fed her just chicken and broth for too long without supplementation.

All the vets I've been to have discouraged Raw, even though no parasites have ever shown up in stool samples, her coat has been amazing, she's healthy and happy, her poop never smelled. I'm told by the vet that cat's poop normally stinks! That's always been an indicator for me that something's wrong...Hope that's based on commercial food, and not true of a clean home-cooked diet...

PS This site is amazing and so helpful!

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi
Welcome, and we're so glad you're here!

I can't help with the details you're asking about, but is this one of the resources you were looking for?

Premixes for homemade food

 

[Domino's Mom]

Hi
Welcome, and we're so glad you're here!

I can't help with the details you're asking about, but is this one of the resources you were looking for?

Premixes for homemade food

No, but thank you, I appreciate it. That's a great resource! I may contact Alnutrin directly to see if they can help.

 

[Box of Rain]

What will you be doing for calcium?

As to "poop smell," same situation with Desmond, our PMR fed cat. Virtually no odor to his feces.

Checking with Alnutrin seems like you best bet.

Bill

 

[FeebysOwner]

I presume you checked out Alnutrin's web site and they don't have what you are looking for?
A Guide To A Balanced, Homemade Cat Food - Alnutrin Supplements (knowwhatyoufeed.com)

 

[Domino's Mom]

What will you be doing for calcium?
Bill

Yeah, the calcium....I was hoping the bone-broth would have extracted some calcium and other minerals, but I'm not sure it does, or is enough? This is only a temporary thing until I get a sample of EZ Complete/Foodfurlife. She's been on a cooked chicken and broth diet for too long this time as I was waiting for her stools to get better, so I started adding back in Alnutrin, but don't want to be over or under. I don't want her to be malnourished. Each time her stools get better I have tried to incorporate raw again, and then the poops get worse. This is the first time it hasn't resolved. That's why I think I need to go home-cooked. Unless the culprit is that Hare-Today isn't clean enough for her?!

(The vet comment about smell being normal blew my mind! She also said cats poop twice a day)

 

[Box of Rain]

Yeah, the calcium....I was hoping the bone-broth would have extracted some calcium and other minerals, but I'm not sure it does, or is enough? This is only a temporary thing until I get a sample of EZ Complete/Foodfurlife. She's been on a cooked chicken and broth diet for too long this time as I was waiting for her stools to get better, so I started adding back in Alnutrin, but don't want to be over or under. I don't want her to be malnourished. Each time her stools get better I have tried to incorporate raw again, and then the poops get worse. This is the first time it hasn't resolved. That's why I think I need to go home-cooked. Unless the culprit is that Hare-Today isn't clean enough for her?!

(The vet comment about smell being normal blew my mind! She also said cats poop twice a day)

My understanding--which maybe incorrect (and I would urge you to do due diligence given the importance of this)--is that very little calcium leaches into the broth of bone soup. I wish I had the reference for this.

Bill

 

[Domino's Mom]

My understanding--which maybe incorrect (and I would urge you to do due diligence given the importance of this)--is that very little calcium leaches into the broth of bone soup. I wish I had the reference for this.

Bill

Yeah, thank you. It's been hard to find info on this. I also have some TC Feline premix which has calcium in it, it is for raw meat+liver. I will start using that for now. I am hoping to attempt more raw feeds as I really don't want to go to cooked....trial and error.

 

[Box of Rain]

Yeah, thank you. It's been hard to find info on this. I also have some TC Feline premix which has calcium in it, it is for raw meat+liver. I will start using that for now. I am hoping to attempt more raw feeds as I really don't want to go to cooked....trial and error.

I'm not an authority on commercial raw products--as I do a balanced PMR diet on a DIY basis--but I would check with the manufacturers for the bone percentages they are using in pre-ground mixes.

My understanding is many use a ratio of 10% bone (or more), which is fine for dogs, but 6% is more ideal for cats.

Excess bone is typically constipating; however, it can have the opposite effect.

I might dig in to getting more information and then consider where to try supplementing the grinds with meat and organs to see if that is helpful.

Too much bone can irritate the GI tract.

Bill

 

[Domino's Mom]

I'm not an authority on commercial raw products--as I do a balanced PMR diet on a DIY basis--but I would check with the manufacturers for the bone percentages they are using in pre-ground mixes.

Bill

Right. I've considered that while feeding different Hare Today proteins. They have a calculator tool to balance the meat/bone/organ ratio. Well, maybe I will try to feed her store-bought raw proteins and livers with correct supplementation, and see if she can still eat raw.

 

[Box of Rain]

Right. I've considered that while feeding different Hare Today proteins. They have a calculator tool to balance the meat/bone/organ ratio. Well, maybe I will try to feed her store-bought raw proteins and livers with correct supplementation, and see if she can still eat raw.

Considering you hope to continue raw feeding, I'd certainly encourage you to give this a go.

Bill

 

[Domino's Mom]

Considering you hope to continue raw feeding, I'd certainly encourage you to give this a go.

Bill

Thanks. I'm trying to find info on this here and elsewhere --- maybe you can help. For minimizing bacterial-risks, do I need to rinse or partially cook the outer layer of meat if I buy my own raw proteins? Or freeze for 3 days, etc? I am in a city apartment and can't buy a grinder.

 

[Furballsmom]

I'm no expert, but I've been reading frequently that it's suggested for home cooks (for people) to not rinse their raw chicken parts, because as I understand it, there's more risk of small splashes spreading bacteria further than the sink.

 

[Domino's Mom]

I'm no expert, but I've been reading frequently that it's suggested for home cooks (for people) to not rinse their raw chicken parts, because as I understand it, there's more risk of small splashes spreading bacteria further than the sink.

I am mainly concerned about any bacteria that might be bad for my cat. I don't mind the counter and areas I can clean up!

 

[Box of Rain]

Thanks. I'm trying to find info on this here and elsewhere --- maybe you can help. For minimizing bacterial-risks, do I need to rinse or partially cook the outer layer of meat if I buy my own raw proteins? Or freeze for 3 days, etc? I am in a city apartment and can't buy a grinder.

I only use normal kitchen precautions for handling raw meat. Typically I break down items into serviceable sizes and then freeze on trays lined with wax paper or parchment, and then ziplock).

In almost 9 years feeding PMR to may dog and somewhat over a year feeding our cat PRM, neither the animals or humans in our home have become ill from bacteria.

One simple (nuclear-level) solution for killing pathogens if to have two spray bottles.

One with white vinegar.

The other with standard hydrogen peroxide (kept in the brown bottle they are sold in). Peroxide bottles take a standard spray top.

Spraying sinks, cutting boards, etc, with a 50/50 "mix" of these kills just about everything.

Bill

ETA: I also do not "grind," as I'm convinced that it is preferable for good dental health for cats to crunch and chew appropriate soft-edible bone. Its keep the whole dental structure: teeth, gums, bones, and muscles strong. I also believe that it is good for cats mental health to tear meat and gnaw bones.

 

[lisahe]

I presume you checked out Alnutrin's web site and they don't have what you are looking for?
A Guide To A Balanced, Homemade Cat Food - Alnutrin Supplements (knowwhatyoufeed.com)

They do have supplements with calcium! I use the version with egg shell calcium because one of our cats gets constipated with too much bone. They have other options with calcium, though, here.

Getting back to the OP's original question:

I also need to know how much to feed Domino per day. It's different than raw, yes?

I recently switched our cats from a diet with a lot of commercial raw food and some homemade cooked food to a diet with no raw food but a little more homemade cooked food and definitely more canned food. The overall amount they're eating isn't that different. Of course the calorie content of the meats I use for the homemade vary considerably -- I use varying cuts of pork, turkey, and chicken -- but everything events out over time. Our cats' litter boxes haven't smelled in years, ever since we started feeding them foods that are high in protein and low in carbs. The cats have some food sensitivities (one has some signs of IBD) so there's a long list of ingredients we just don't feed, things like grains, legumes, and lots of thickeners.

There were lots of reasons I switched from raw food. The biggest was that one of our cats had difficulty tolerating the bone in the raw foods she liked best. Like you, I also thought the "helpful" additives in various brands, like psyllium and pumpkin, were probably working at cross purposes. Beyond that, our other cat had to have patches of inflammation removed from her stomach and one of the possible causes listed in the biopsy and ultrasound reports was parasites (specifically some kind of nematodes). I think the crickets that Edwina loves to snack on were a more likely cause than raw food, which the vet suspects, but I'd been thinking about diet changes anyway so was glad to simplify. The new combination of homemade cooked and various canned foods has been working better for both cats than the previous menu of raw, homemade cooked, and a little canned food. That surprises me more than a little, then again, this cat feeding business is largely a matter of finding what works best for each individual cat.

 

[Marley&Luna]

An honest question: why would the supplement or amount be any different cooked vs raw? Wouldn’t you just use the same supplement based on whether you’ve included liver or not? I doubt bone broth makes much difference as one ingredient in a mostly meat food. The important detail I think would be to not add the supplement until after the food is cooked and cooled. No? I’ll be interested to see what alnutrin says.

 

[Domino's Mom]

I only use normal kitchen precautions for handling raw meat. Typically I break down items into serviceable sizes and then freeze on trays lined with wax paper or parchment, and then ziplock).

Thanks, I'm not concerned about my counters. I believe my cat once had a bad reaction to some salmon scales I had given her. I've done it before many times, and it's been fine. But since that reaction, and knowing that along the food supply chain raw protein can be handled differently, I'm more cautious about what my cat eats. Especially now with this unknown cause of bad poops.

 

[Domino's Mom]

The new combination of homemade cooked and various canned foods has been working better for both cats than the previous menu of raw, homemade cooked, and a little canned food. That surprises me more than a little, then again, this cat feeding business is largely a matter of finding what works best for each individual cat.

Thanks for this. It's been a lot of work trying to figure out what is going on and why my cat seems more sensitive now than before. (espicially homemade cooked food, exhausting!) I may start a new thread as it has gotten better, then worse, then better, then worse, etc. I would love to make it easier and cost-efficient for me lol

 

[Domino's Mom]

An honest question: why would the supplement or amount be any different cooked vs raw? Wouldn’t you just use the same supplement based on whether you’ve included liver or not? I doubt bone broth makes much difference as one ingredient in a mostly meat food. The important detail I think would be to not add the supplement until after the food is cooked and cooled. No? I’ll be interested to see what alnutrin says.

All the ratios for supplements are based on the raw weight. So even if you cook the protein, the amount of supplement to add is still based on the raw weight. Which has been difficult for me, as I prefer using whole chicken and cooking it whole. I am not deboning it before cooking. So my only solution so far is to weigh every stage and part: whole, cooked minus bones, minus some skin, etc.