Sorry, clarification...I'll also be discarding the skin.
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My first cooked chicken cat food!
- Thread starter mschauer
- Start Date
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #122
Absolutely!Well, the boneless thighs were all gone when I finally got to the store that had them on sale. Sooo...I ended up getting bone-in thighs with the skin on them. There were four of them in a pack and a pretty good size.
I drizzled a little canola oil in the bottom of a square glass baking dish, and put the thighs - skin, bone and all - in the dish. I covered with aluminum foil and baked at 350. I kept checking them every 10 minutes because I didn't want to overcook them. They were just done and very tender and juicy after 35 minutes (again, they were rather large thighs with skin and bone). I still have them in the dish cooling, and plan to take the skin and meat off and discard the bone. I took off a small piece of meat and chopped it up for Sebastian to try as a "treat" after his sub-q fluids. Well...he devoured it!I plan to feed him more with his dinner tonight, so we'll see how he likes it then. I'd like to use the juices in the bottom of the pan and divide it evenly with the meat in individual serving containers for freezing.
Do you think my method of cooking was okay?
My are liking the cooked so well I might also. Are you still planning on using Balance IT?
You might want to start posting your recipes in the cooked foods recipe thread so people can find it more easily: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/263751/cooked-recipes-thread
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Great...because it was super easy!
Yeh, I think so. Until I'm ready to venture out and do the liver thing, I'll probably go with BalanceIT (my first choice since it was developed specifically for cooked diets) or TCFeline PLUS with chicken liver (second choice, although the creator doesn't have any useable data on the premix being used for cooked meat, according to her "disclaimer"). I don't think I can use U-Stew because the barley grass may be a problem for Sebastian.
Absolutely, thanks! I'm a little behind on reading up on new threads.
By the way, I went to another grocery store on the other side of town, and holy smokes, what a difference in the meat options. There were parts of animals I couldn't even identify. They had tripe, cow's feet, beef liver, calf liver, chicken liver, chicken backs, pigs tails, gizzards, fatback (ew!), etc. I didn't see chicken feet, however. For an "almost vegetarian," it was a bit....um....unpleasant. LOL. But now I know where to go!
Just FYI, the bleached tripe has basically no nutritional value. When you see people discussing tripe in the context of feeding cats or dogs, they're referring to green tripe, which is not sold for consumption by humans - you'll never find it in a U.S. market, anyway.
Hmm...I just realized that buying bone-in chicken thighs with skin would make it difficult for me to calculate the raw weight of the meat before adding a premix. I guess I would have to buy the boneless/skinless next time, which sucks because I really think baking with the skin on really helped keep the chicken moist and flavorful. Are there any tricks to this little dilemma?
By the way, here's the final product after I chopped the chicken by hand. I think next time I'll try putting in my small "chopper" appliance. I'm not ready to post a recipe yet because it is not balanced, but I will once I figure it out!
Cooked chicken (white and dark meat):
By the way, here's the final product after I chopped the chicken by hand. I think next time I'll try putting in my small "chopper" appliance. I'm not ready to post a recipe yet because it is not balanced, but I will once I figure it out!
Cooked chicken (white and dark meat):
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #126
If you use the Balance IT premix the amount you use of it is based on the cooked weight not the raw.
To calculate the weight, use the zero or tare function of the scale or weigh the container then add the meat and weigh again. Then subtract the weight of the container. And mschauer is correct, weigh the cooked meat rather than raw.
Besides, while I happen to do raw, my scale has occasionally given different readings than what the store put on the package. I always weigh stuff now.
Besides, while I happen to do raw, my scale has occasionally given different readings than what the store put on the package. I always weigh stuff now.
Mschauer, I have a question about your second cooked recipe on the official recipe thread. I didn't want to confuse the thread, so thought I would post here. I was trying to match it up with the alnutrin calculator, realizing you probably used your own. Adding 36 ounces of water really throws me. Marta had told me to use the raw meat weight, adding back all the reserved liquid after cooking, when determining the Alnutrin calculation. If you don't add back the reserved liquid, which to me would affect the nutrient profile of the meat, we should use the cooked weight and calculate the Alnutrin accordingly. To get to your 20 g of Alnutrin, I plugged in the 2.5 pounds meat, 3 ounces liver, and it said to add .9 cups water. If I still add back all the reserved liquid, my Alnutrin gets quite diluted. If I start with your 4 pound roast that bakes down to 2.5 pounds plus 4 cups liquid, add a little more water and 3 ounces cooked liver, i get 27 g Alnutrin for a 1.14:1 Ca ratio.
As a comparison, Sally's recipe starts with 3 pounds meat. She doesn't provide the net cooked weight, but adding back in all reserve liquid, liver, and some water, she adds in the same 20 g Alnutrin. I calculated her ratio to be 1.13:1.
Can you clarify or tell me how your calculator assesses it differently? Thanks!
Also, I don't have a meat grinder. I do have a little chopper, and somewhere in the bowels of my cupboard is a cuisinart (27 years old variety). I would like to try to grind instead of dicing. Will either of those work?
ratio. As a comparison, Sally's recipe starts with 3 pounds meat. She doesn't provide the net cooked weight, but adding back in all reserve liquid, liver, and some water, she adds in the same 20 g Alnutrin. I calculated her ratio to be 1.13:1.
Can you clarify or tell me how your calculator assesses it differently? Thanks!
Also, I don't have a meat grinder. I do have a little chopper, and somewhere in the bowels of my cupboard is a cuisinart (27 years old variety). I would like to try to grind instead of dicing. Will either of those work?
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #131
Hmm, I agree something doesn't right. I'll look into it and get back to you!Mschauer, I have a question about your second cooked recipe on the official recipe thread. I didn't want to confuse the thread, so thought I would post here. I was trying to match it up with the alnutrin calculator, realizing you probably used your own. Adding 36 ounces of water really throws me. Marta had told me to use the raw meat weight, adding back all the reserved liquid after cooking, when determining the Alnutrin calculation. If you don't add back the reserved liquid, which to me would affect the nutrient profile of the meat, we should use the cooked weight and calculate the Alnutrin accordingly. To get to your 20 g of Alnutrin, I plugged in the 2.5 pounds meat, 3 ounces liver, and it said to add .9 cups water. If I still add back all the reserved liquid, my Alnutrin gets quite diluted. If I start with your 4 pound roast that bakes down to 2.5 pounds plus 4 cups liquid, add a little more water and 3 ounces cooked liver, i get 27 g Alnutrin for a 1.14:1 Ca
As a comparison, Sally's recipe starts with 3 pounds meat. She doesn't provide the net cooked weight, but adding back in all reserve liquid, liver, and some water, she adds in the same 20 g Alnutrin. I calculated her ratio to be 1.13:1.
Can you clarify or tell me how your calculator assesses it differently? Thanks!
Also, I don't have a meat grinder. I do have a little chopper, and somewhere in the bowels of my cupboard is a cuisinart (27 years old variety). I would like to try to grind instead of dicing. Will either of those work?
Oh btw, the 'water' in my recipe is actually the cooking liquid plus 1 additional cup of water.
Edit: Can you tell me exactly which ingredient entries you selected in the calculator? The online calculator doesn't have an entry for beef chuck roast.
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I just used the beef ground, lean, raw at the bottom. I know, not perfect, but in the ballpark. In all of my calculations for different meats, even for the duck and venison calculator that Marta did for me, it seems the Alnutrin is between 6 and 7 grams per pound of meat plus liver and water. I'm rounding here for discussion purposes, I do measure to the 10th of a gram when I'm making food. My point being though, in the same way the MCHA or eggshell amount doesn't change for protein types (organs being diffferent from muscle meats) the Alnutrin stays pretty much the same too, regardless of meats.
Edit to say that the real changes occur when fluctuating the Ca ratio. I try to stay between 1.1:1 and 1.2:1, closer to the latter.
Edit to say that the real changes occur when fluctuating the Ca
ratio. I try to stay between 1.1:1 and 1.2:1, closer to the latter.
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #133
So basically you are asking why my Ca Isn't 1.13 when using 20 g of Alnutrin?
First, for the purposes of the nutrient analysis, including the Ca, the water content doesn't matter because the calculations are all done on a dry matter basis.
Second, I was targeting a Ca of 1.3.
Look at these (click an image to enlarge):
Does that help any?
Isn't 1.13 when using 20 g of Alnutrin? First, for the purposes of the nutrient analysis, including the Ca
, the water content doesn't matter because the calculations are all done on a dry matter basis. Second, I was targeting a Ca
of 1.3.Look at these (click an image to enlarge):
Does that help any?
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Here's actual input. Assumptions were 2.5 pounds cooked meat, 3 ounces liver, 20 g Alnutrin. Calculator was water at 15, beef at 79, cooked chicken liver at 6, Alnutrin percent at 1.4, resulted in .9 ounces water and Alnutrin at 20.1 grams. Ca ratio at 1.26:1. That's close to what your recipe says, but not adding back the reserved liquid. If the reserved liquid becomes part of the meat, then here's my second try. Assume 4 pounds meat, 3 ounces liver. Water at 10, beef at 87, liver at 4 (low, but that way it was close to 3 ounces at end), Alnutrin percent at 1.3, resulted in water at .9 ounces and Alnutrin at 27.1. Ca ratio is 1.14:1. Hope this helps with your calculating. 
ratio at 1.26:1. That's close to what your recipe says, but not adding back the reserved liquid. If the reserved liquid becomes part of the meat, then here's my second try. Assume 4 pounds meat, 3 ounces liver. Water at 10, beef at 87, liver at 4 (low, but that way it was close to 3 ounces at end), Alnutrin percent at 1.3, resulted in water at .9 ounces and Alnutrin at 27.1. Ca ratio is 1.14:1. Hope this helps with your calculating. - Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #135
Had you seen my post #133 before posting this?Here's actual input. Assumptions were 2.5 pounds cooked meat, 3 ounces liver, 20 g Alnutrin. Calculator was water at 15, beef at 79, cooked chicken liver at 6, Alnutrin percent at 1.4, resulted in .9 ounces water and Alnutrin at 20.1 grams. Ca
So I see what you've done. Thank you. But this raises concern for me in all my prior calculations. I have never done it based on DMB. The "liquid" in the meat, whether incorporated in the meat because it is raw, or added back to the meat, because it was cooked, was included in my total meat weight. In this case, it comes down to entering 2.5 pounds vs 4.0. I always enter the 4, you enter 2.5. That results in a big difference. If I'm wrong, then I am greatly over adding the Alnutrin, on a consistent basis.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #137
I see your problem.
I'm going to have to ponder the problem for a bit. I'll let you know what my pondering leads to!
I'm going to have to ponder the problem for a bit. I'll let you know what my pondering leads to!
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Would the instructions on the package vs the calculator help? My understandimg is the amount of Alnutrin with calcium *shouldn't* be affected by water volume, thus based on the pre-cooked amount, assuming all water used in cooking or pan drippings are added back in. :dk:
http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com/alnutrin_with_calcium.html
http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com/alnutrin_with_calcium.html
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #139
Yeah, that is what my post #133 showed.Would the instructions on the package vs the calculator help? My understandimg is the amount of Alnutrin with calcium *shouldn't* be affected by water volume, thus based on the pre-cooked amount, assuming all water used in cooking or pan drippings are added back in.
http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com/alnutrin_with_calcium.html
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #140
The problem is how to achieve a desired Ca when the online calculator doesn't include the ingredients actually used. LCat4 is using the entry for raw ground beef because there is no entry for cooked chuck roast.
when the online calculator doesn't include the ingredients actually used. LCat4 is using the entry for raw ground beef because there is no entry for cooked chuck roast.
