My cat Sassy 18yr old Short Hair - Appetite Issues (again) - result of early CKD progressing?

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miguel99nyc

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Ah ok. Then maybe would have her Xrayed too.

And as for CKD diagnosis, it was primarily from her Urine Test in 2017. Reattached. He said her specific gravity was getting on low end and her urine was diluted? If I remember correctly. But she did not go for another urine test since 2017.

Yes others have told me her blood work doesn't really indicate CKD although her Creatine has been steadily going up to 2.1 back in 2019 from the 1.7 it was in 2017.
 

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FeebysOwner

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Thanks! Interesting. Feeby's last urine test was in 2019 and it indicated right about the same as Sassy's (1.018 for Sassy vs. 1.017 for Feeby), and nothing was mentioned to me about that being an issue. Not to say it isn't, but this is a vet I have used since 1990. Your vet and mine use the same company for blood analysis (Antech) and the range for Specific Gravity is 1.015 - 1.060. Feeby will getting another urinalysis (assuming they can collect it) in March.
 
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miguel99nyc

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Thanks! Interesting. Feeby's last urine test was in 2019 and it indicated right about the same as Sassy's (1.018 for Sassy vs. 1.017 for Feeby), and nothing was mentioned to me about that being an issue. Not to say it isn't, but this is a vet I have used since 1990. Your vet and mine use the same company for blood analysis (Antech) and the range for Specific Gravity is 1.015 - 1.060. Feeby will getting another urinalysis (assuming they can collect it) in March.
Oh sorry, and if I may ask, what did your vet base off the diagnosis of your Feeby having CKD? Not sure if you mentioned it or if your Feeby too has CKD?
 

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Oh sorry, and if I may ask, what did your vet base off the diagnosis of your Feeby having CKD? Not sure if you mentioned it or if your Feeby too has CKD?
No, Feeby's vet hasn't indicated that she has a kidney issue - yet. We have a compounding issue in that Feeby was just recently diagnosed with hyperthyroidism, which can mask kidney issues. So, that is why we are keeping a close eye on it now. She has been on hyperthyroid meds since mid-October, and her kidney values haven't changed enough to alarm him. She has had blood tests 2 times since she started.
 
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miguel99nyc

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I'm curious if I should attempt to give Sassy either Famotidine or Cerenia. (pick up from vet). Cerenia not sure as I don't really see any signs of her being nasuea, plus i doubt she would drink water while nausea? She doesn't lick her lips/nose or anything.

Famotidine for the acid, I couldn't really tell if she has that issue now either. Def don't want to try Mirtazapine only because at lease she stilll eating something rather then nothing at all...plus even the weakest form of mirtazapine of 1mg cut in half, still gets her hyper/vocal.
 

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I have never used any of those on Feeby. So, I can't advise you on that. Do you keep track of her caloric intake on a daily basis? That is how I gauge Feeby. She is likely much heavier than Sassy (I don't see Sassy's weight charted on her blood tests). Feeby is about 13 pounds, and if I can manage an average of about 250 or so calories per day, I don't worry about the days here and there that she is under that amount. She can go anywhere from 200 calories one day to 275 or so another day. Her off and on eating has been pretty routine for a while now, so I don't use a single day's worth of eating as a gauge anymore. I have been charting Feeby's intake for a little over a year now.
 
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miguel99nyc

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Ah ok. Yeah it's hard to even calculate the calories with her, it's nearly impossible because for one, especially recently and just few minutes ago as she ate a bit of her Prime Fillets canned food, she been mostly licking the gravy/juice of the canned food rather than eating the actual meat bits. Like few minutes ago, she ate what seems her normal amount of her 3 part dinner...there's less in the can but its so hard to tell if its just her licking that gravy making it appear less food in can, or she ate some bits of it. That is why I prefer her Pate but I know those all contain much more phosphorus.

The other issue I have is storing the food. Like she loves her food like room temperature like from a new can freshly open. I just plastic wrapped her food but if I put it in fridge, it will obviously get gold. However she still seems on pace to wake up in about 2-3 hours to yet eat again. So should i just leave her can food out wrapped...but not in fridge yet until she eats again? Because I read up online I think it says that food shouldn't be left out more then 2 hours otherwise bacteria will form in the food or something. So now adays i just rush back and forth like maybe 20 or so minutes ahead of time to take the can out from fridge so it uncools itself natrually for a bit ready for her to eat when she wakes up.

And of course right now that she ate a bit, she went straight to lay down again. She used to go stretch at least when she wakes up, walk around and scratch her scratch post...but since yesterday she hasn't done that.
 

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I have left out canned food for Feeby for hours at a time. I also add a bit of water to it if it seems to be drying out a bit. Everyone seems to be more concerned about leaving out dry food - especially if it has been eaten some (due to saliva mixing with it) - in terms of bacterial growth. I feel comfortable leaving Feeby's canned food out as many as 6 hours.

Feeby eats all pates because she will tend to lick the gravy off of all other types, and leave the 'meat' behind. Have you checked the phosphorus levels on the Sheba and Nutro perfect portion pates - the ones that are only 1.32 oz per serving - to see if the phosphorus levels on those compare to her regular food. They are more expensive, but as I believe I said before, they are what I use for Feeby after her standard 3.0 oz serving in the AM of Fancy Feast pates.
 
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miguel99nyc

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You know? There was a time...back around July or August of this year Sassy was not eating too well either especially in the AM, so I would feed her in my room (thats when she began to eat in my room in the summer) Sheeba! The 1.3oz Pate ones because I saw back then in summer those too were low in Phosphours compared to friskies, and the one time I i tried she liked it, wasn't CRAZY about it but at times she did eat it. It was mostly for Charlie though as he LOVED those. My only thing with that is, they are small portions which seem fine. but if I may ask, how many of those single 1.3oz package should Sassy be eating? Bceause before she would only eat one of those 1.3oz for breakfast but thats it for the day. In the nights she had in one sitting half of her 5.5 oz fillets frikies. SHe's hovered around 11-12lbs, though right now she might be under 11lbs as she seems lost bit of weight (but not bony or anything).

When I read up on Sheeba, I think for avg 10lb cat she got to eat like...I think 6 or 8 packages of those 1.3 oz?? Sassy would just eat one single package and be good enough which worried me because if she was just on sheeba, she would be mayube eat 2-3 total of those single packages in a day which is far less then she eats nowadays or even back then in the summer.
 

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That is a hard one. Each cat is different. I feed Feeby one 3.0 oz can of her favorite Fancy Feast cans in the AM. And, then from there on I feed her one serving of Sheba, or an equivalent Nutro serving, at a time over the rest of the day. Sometimes, she will eat 3 of those, other times less. Most Sheba's contain just over 40 calories per serving.

I base Feeby's intake on the good old standard of about 20 calories a day per pound of body weight (the lower end because she is older). So for her, that is about 260 calories per day - 1 can of FF at just under 100 and 3 servings of Sheba gets her to around 220. She gets other foods, such as hairball treats, Glyco Flex for her arthritis, and some baby food to serve the Glyco in - so she ends up around 250 or so in total.

Again, every cat is different, but if you used the same calculation for Sassy, at 11 pounds that would be around 220 calories per day.

You have a good point I want to consider about the eating less after eating Sheba. I will consider that in Feeby's diet. Maybe I should be trying 2 cans of Fancy Feast over the course of a day, instead of always relying on Sheba or Nutro after her first meal. Something to ponder about why there is a slow down of eating later in the day.
 
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miguel99nyc

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Oh, yeah thats about roughly...7oz of food your Feeby eats overall a day give or take. I think my cat averages that around that amount too roughly with intake of dry food throughout the day/night. She definitely does not finish all her 5.5oz can at night and def doesn't finish all her 3oz can fancy feast either in mornings but comes close to it. She just woke up actually bit earlier then her norm...at around 8:30 to eat, she ate a fair amount again with some bits of dry food. Then walked away. She was going to attempt to sleep again right after but I took her bed away, then played with her a bit with a string , she seemed playful as she chased me out to living room for once with the toy string she has. She drank then some water and now finally back to sleep in her bed. The thing that worried me is that usually she cleans her face right after eating, but of late she doesnt and few moments ago when she ate, she was going straight to her bed without even cleaning herself...so thats why I took it away. She THEN cleaned her face afterwards. Also after she drank water, she did have either gas or a burp or something or a cough she did as she walked back to the bedroom after drinking that water. She has done that few times in the past but this was first time in a while I heard her do that.

You mentioned leaving dry food outside may be worrisome as whatever bits they may bite off and leave coudl get bacteria? Hm I wonder if I'm doing this wrong then. Since its so hard to predict how much dry food she will eat (she eats - The Friskies Gravy Swirlers Chicken and Salmon bag) I usually pour out...a table spoon or so of dry food out onto her dish and add more if she needs more. Anything leftover I put back into these chinese soup containers I re-use (washed of course) and place her leftovers back with rest of food and seal up with cover. But I wonder since Im sure some bits of her dry food she chews off lands back on her plate...it sort of contaminates rest of her cleaner dry food in container? I only do this to save up on the dry food, especially when i combine it with her wet food (half side of dish is wet and other half side is dry), I try to save the dry food as much as i can.
 
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miguel99nyc

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Another update as of this morning 12.30.2020 - 740an edt.

So Sassy ate bit further more last night before bed so overall consumption I can say was about average. Then over night this past night she came in around 345am my room to ask for dry food. This was first time she didnt finish the dry food bits I left on her plate. But at the same time, I also did not hear her crunch on it oddly. She was basically just swallowing it barely any chewing. So she ate little of what i served her and walked away to drink water, then she urinated and stool. Also first time I saw she urinated but very little in comparison to the amount she normally urines...but her stool was ok, not alot, a little soft mushy but not diarrhea and no blood.

Then she came back at 550an for her breakfast like always. She barely ate, maybe because was a new flavor which I made her smell at first and began to lick it like crazy, thinking oh she might like this. So I served on her plate she was sorta chewing but mostly licking. Keeps looking up towards me ever few seconds as she ate/licked. I added few bits of dry food but she didnt eat it at all. Then she licked bit more and walked away, didnt really not even a spoonful of that canned food. She went to drink more water and now is asleep.

Now it could be because was a new flavor food she wasnt really into it? But her not eat as much now the dry food concerns me. I'm almost sure she will wake up in about another hour or so to ask food and I'll try her go to canned food. But she seemed off this morning overnight. Is it even normal for her to be eating this often nearly 2 or 3 hours...but eat such little amounts? Thats what scares me. And still havent decided on what new ver to take her....i just feel like it will all be a chance gamble if the vet is good.
 

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The thing that worried me is that usually she cleans her face right after eating, but of late she doesnt and few moments ago when she ate, she was going straight to her bed without even cleaning herself...so thats why I took it away. She THEN cleaned her face afterwards.
After Feeby eats, she often goes to 'stake out' her sleeping spot and then cleans once she is there. So, for me that's normal, but you know Sassy best in terms of whether this qualifies as odd behavior for her.
You mentioned leaving dry food outside may be worrisome as whatever bits they may bite off and leave coudl get bacteria? Hm I wonder if I'm doing this wrong then.
I'll be honest with you, when all Feeby ate was dry food years ago, I left out dishes of it around the clock, so I am sure she left some saliva and half eaten dry morsel pieces behind in the uneaten food. It wasn't until I joined this site that I read about the contamination possibility. So, does that mean that maybe I just got lucky with Feeby (and, the two cats that proceeded her who were fed pretty much the same way)? I dunno. :dunno: Feeby eats very little dry nowadays, and when she does it is pretty much no more than 3-4 morsels at time. So, I usually put very little in a dish to help prevent a lot of waste. How you handle the dry food is your call, since I can't personally attest to what other members on this site say.
Now it could be because was a new flavor food she wasnt really into it? But her not eat as much now the dry food concerns me. I'm almost sure she will wake up in about another hour or so to ask food and I'll try her go to canned food. But she seemed off this morning overnight. Is it even normal for her to be eating this often nearly 2 or 3 hours...but eat such little amounts?
Feeby rarely eats much in one sitting. She prefers to take a couple of bites, wonder off, return for a couple more bites, etc. until she is ready for a nap. If you have noticed an 'off and on' thing with the dry food, maybe it is when the food is becoming stale? Even placing it back into a container that you seal, doesn't stop it from air exposure while it is out. Oh, yeah, you mentioned about Sassy eating dry food whole, or not really chewing it up. Again for me, the most Feeby ever has done with dry is maybe bite some of them in half, the rest are eaten whole. That is proven to be the case on the occasions when she has thrown up - most of the pieces are whole.

I think IF all of what you describe about Sassy is abnormal for her, then you kind of have to go with your gut about whether it warrants a vet visit. The thing is - when these behaviors are not consistent, but rather intermittent, sometimes you just have to wonder if it is tied to old age and having 'off' days. However, the blood testing and urinalysis alone are good reasons to have a vet check up.
 
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miguel99nyc

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After Feeby eats, she often goes to 'stake out' her sleeping spot and then cleans once she is there. So, for me that's normal, but you know Sassy best in terms of whether this qualifies as odd behavior for her.

I'll be honest with you, when all Feeby ate was dry food years ago, I left out dishes of it around the clock, so I am sure she left some saliva and half eaten dry morsel pieces behind in the uneaten food. It wasn't until I joined this site that I read about the contamination possibility. So, does that mean that maybe I just got lucky with Feeby (and, the two cats that proceeded her who were fed pretty much the same way)? I dunno. :dunno: Feeby eats very little dry nowadays, and when she does it is pretty much no more than 3-4 morsels at time. So, I usually put very little in a dish to help prevent a lot of waste. How you handle the dry food is your call, since I can't personally attest to what other members on this site say.

Feeby rarely eats much in one sitting. She prefers to take a couple of bites, wonder off, return for a couple more bites, etc. until she is ready for a nap. If you have noticed an 'off and on' thing with the dry food, maybe it is when the food is becoming stale? Even placing it back into a container that you seal, doesn't stop it from air exposure while it is out. Oh, yeah, you mentioned about Sassy eating dry food whole, or not really chewing it up. Again for me, the most Feeby ever has done with dry is maybe bite some of them in half, the rest are eaten whole. That is proven to be the case on the occasions when she has thrown up - most of the pieces are whole.

I think IF all of what you describe about Sassy is abnormal for her, then you kind of have to go with your gut about whether it warrants a vet visit. The thing is - when these behaviors are not consistent, but rather intermittent, sometimes you just have to wonder if it is tied to old age and having 'off' days. However, the blood testing and urinalysis alone are good reasons to have a vet check up.
Yes, I have set up an appointment this coming Saturday with regular primary vet...figured Id try one last time with them at least for the bloodwork and possible Xrays. I did tell them though if Sassy does not continue to decline or appetite further lessen, then I may just hold off on it. The only thing is that I do see she still has that mindset to eat, still wakes up intervals of about 3-4hours to eat again like today, just this whole new bed thing making her sleep more. Prior to this bed, say like last week, she would eat or drink water, then just either roam around the apartment or just sit in one place like in hall way (I think I mentioned it before), but she would at times usually remain awake for nearly 3-4 hours. Usually in afternoons or in nights. Sometimes she is falling asleep sort of while sitting which we thought looked cute and funny...but now that we got her into this bed, she just I guess finds it so much comfortable that she goes there straight after eating. One thing I started doing today was upon her finishing eating, as she walks to her bed I kind of put her bed aside out of her reach so she doesn't actually go straight to lay down. I forget, is her going straight to laying down on her bed after eating a sign of illness? It's hard to say if its abnormal...because it is a new bed. Im sure if it wasnt for that, she would probably still be sleeping on our own beds and/or staying awake longer. I doubt that affects her appetite...and was worriewd initially when I saw her sleeping away first day of her bed, that she would forget her eating schedule and sleep longer periods. I was wrong as it seems she still has that mindset to wake up every few hours to eat/drink/litter. I figured at least that makes me want to believe that she's ok...and not really that ill. Besides, if she was nausea or pain, I'm sure she would be avoiding food all together and not even give one lick? But taking her bed away momentarily helps her stay up a bit, I play with her a bit with her string toy - she still chases me with it and tries to snatch it like her old self. Then after several minutes or so I would bring her bed down and she'd go in it to sleep, until few hours later to eat/drink again. It's just her sleeping/addiction to the bed that's throwing ME off making it seems shes lethargic or ill...but she might not be. I know though still she needs at some point rather soon to get blood work done to see her CKD progress.

So far she seems to be eating again ok today and near same amounts as she was a week ago or so, despite being new canned food flavors Im trying. She still grasps on to her favorite Salmon and Beef Friskies Prime Fillets which she eats for dinner. The issue I'm having aside from trying to warm it down from taking leftover out of fridge is...the juice gravy seems to be drying up a bit. Could I just add water to her can just a drop or two to make it like gravy looking again? Because aside from her loving to lick her food, once the gravy starts to dry up in fridge, the has more to chew for her leftover dinner meals which I then feel kind of turns her off a bit - though she tents to eat bit more in her last meals around midnight out of her 3 dinner meals. The other issue I noticed of late is that these Prime Fillets used to be very thin pieces but now suddenly they come in large chunks which she was never a fan of. Either had to be Pate's or the thin cut Prime Fillets, always. Plus with the bits/larger chunks, its more juice/gravy then meat I think so its a further waste I thought.

Also, would anyone know an updated link or site that shows phosphorus content on most/if not all commercial foods? because I used this site - https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf but it's 2017 last updated...And the Tanya site doesn't really list the food Sassy eats. If anyone has it would be greatly appreciated.

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I think, regardless of what Sassy does or does not do before this appointment, she should still be seen for at least a follow up blood work (and urinalysis, if possible). Feeby has done well with x-rays - no sedation - so, if you can get that done too, that would be good.

Again, I don't know if Feeby is having issues beyond old age - as could be the case with Sassy - but, they still show so many similarities in their behaviors. Today was warmer outside (and, so therefore, inside), and Feeby stayed awake longer than she has been doing before taking her nap. She was a bit more mobile too (but, she never plays at all like you can get Sassy to do). Funny, you should mention Sassy seeming to fall asleep while sitting! Feeby, sometimes, gets up on the back of our couch where she can look out the window, and I am positive she nods off while doing so!!

Add water to her food to moisten it up, I do that all the time with Feeby's. You can also consider buying or making some bone broth to add if water doesn't work. Feeby also prefers pates - all she will do with the 'cuts' and 'chunks' is lick off the gravy. She has to be ravenous to even consider eating any of the 'meat' pieces.

Not sure what to advise on the low phosphorus cat food. Hope others will be able to respond. If not, you could start a separate thread under Nutrition just to ask for the best low phosphorus foods for CKD cats. Nothing came about when doing an internet search?
 
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miguel99nyc

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I think, regardless of what Sassy does or does not do before this appointment, she should still be seen for at least a follow up blood work (and urinalysis, if possible). Feeby has done well with x-rays - no sedation - so, if you can get that done too, that would be good.

Again, I don't know if Feeby is having issues beyond old age - as could be the case with Sassy - but, they still show so many similarities in their behaviors. Today was warmer outside (and, so therefore, inside), and Feeby stayed awake longer than she has been doing before taking her nap. She was a bit more mobile too (but, she never plays at all like you can get Sassy to do). Funny, you should mention Sassy seeming to fall asleep while sitting! Feeby, sometimes, gets up on the back of our couch where she can look out the window, and I am positive she nods off while doing so!!

Add water to her food to moisten it up, I do that all the time with Feeby's. You can also consider buying or making some bone broth to add if water doesn't work. Feeby also prefers pates - all she will do with the 'cuts' and 'chunks' is lick off the gravy. She has to be ravenous to even consider eating any of the 'meat' pieces.

Not sure what to advise on the low phosphorus cat food. Hope others will be able to respond. If not, you could start a separate thread under Nutrition just to ask for the best low phosphorus foods for CKD cats. Nothing came about when doing an internet search?
Ah ok yes, Ill add water. Should it be bottled water or fresh tap water or boiled water?

As of this morning, she did eat even further less of her dry food as she really isnt chewing it and instead swallowing it, but she ate half of her fancy feast, 1/4 of a new flavor fancy feast I made her try (wasn't all for it), but right after attempted this leftover Chicken and Tuna Sheeba I have leftover from Charlie months ago (still in its original packaging of course), turns out she likes it! She only ate one package of it as she once did many months ago in summer - I actually remmeber giving these to her (oceanfish flavor though) in mornings whenever she wouldn't eat her fancy feast. She went off it some time because I guess she disliked it? But now hopefully she starts up on it as I saw also phosphorus on them is low too.

I also still have left over dry food - IAMS Proactive Health Urinary Tract health dry foood bag from Charlie as well that Sassy likes as well. I haven't been able to definitely determine if when she eats this as snack during day if it turns down her appetite? Because few times it seemed like it did, other times no, so hard to know. But because of her CKD, is this something that would probably maker her feel off/sick inside because this is for cats with urinary issues ? I only ask beacuse she does like it and happens to be a bag of that food leftover from when Charlie pass away back in October. I also see other flavored IAMS dry food maybe they are a good brand? I feel all their dry food have smaller bits which might be easier for sassy to chew/eat because these Friskies one are rather large bits. Id try the Salmon flavored IAMS dry food because that seems to be her favorite fish kind. She likes still her Friskies Salmon and Beef fillets, the Salmon Friskies Pate, and even at times when she used to sit with me on the dinner table, we'd eat cooked salmon she woudl even eat our own cooked salmon!! she just loves it.
 

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Ah ok yes, Ill add water. Should it be bottled water or fresh tap water or boiled water?
Whatever kind of water you give her in her water dish(es) should be just fine.
I also still have left over dry food - IAMS Proactive Health Urinary Tract health dry foood bag from Charlie as well that Sassy likes as well. I haven't been able to definitely determine if when she eats this as snack during day if it turns down her appetite? Because few times it seemed like it did, other times no, so hard to know. But because of her CKD, is this something that would probably maker her feel off/sick inside because this is for cats with urinary issues ? I only ask beacuse she does like it and happens to be a bag of that food leftover from when Charlie pass away back in October. I also see other flavored IAMS dry food maybe they are a good brand? I feel all their dry food have smaller bits which might be easier for sassy to chew/eat because these Friskies one are rather large bits. Id try the Salmon flavored IAMS dry food because that seems to be her favorite fish kind.
Check the phosphorus level in the left over food from Charlie, since that seems to be your main concern. Also, check the expiration date to make sure it is still good. And, ensure whatever it is stored in has a tight seal to reduce chances of it getting stale. Checking the ingredients in any dry food you are interested in against ones you think are OK is your best bet, including of course the phosphorus.

Since you truly believe Sassy has kidney issues, have you checked out this web site? Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Everything You Need to Know to Help Your Cat (felinecrf.org)
 
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Whatever kind of water you give her in her water dish(es) should be just fine.

Check the phosphorus level in the left over food from Charlie, since that seems to be your main concern. Also, check the expiration date to make sure it is still good. And, ensure whatever it is stored in has a tight seal to reduce chances of it getting stale. Checking the ingredients in any dry food you are interested in against ones you think are OK is your best bet, including of course the phosphorus.

Since you truly believe Sassy has kidney issues, have you checked out this web site? Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Everything You Need to Know to Help Your Cat (felinecrf.org)
Hello, and Happy New Years!! To you, and family and lovely Feeby! :)

I think (don't know where I checked as it was years ago), but Charlie's food did have low phosphorus in them. I will post in the Nutrition section to see if anyone else has further help for that nutrition chart. I googled but don't really get what I seek aside from Tanya site which doesnt list all foods, and also that other PDF site that shows most foods too.

Last night was rough...and seems I'm in conflict/arguments with family here about them suggesting to NOT take her to the vet. To their eyes they don't see her sick like she used to be sick in years past with appetite issue. But also, and I'd agree with them on this part, in the two most recent visits in 2018 and 2019, she makes it nearly impossible for her to put her in her carrier bag. Then once in the vet, she becomes quite vocal/agressive. She just hisses and hisses and growls entire time - so my family thinks the vet visits will stress her out and potentially make her further ill in some way. Let alone, taking blood and Xrays...and I know Sassy will get beyond stressed, plus at time she feels weak in sense because she's very old at 18 - she no kitten so I feel like her bones are fragile. And it's true she doesn't act like she sick as this morning she was playful, walking around, petting these carton boxes like she used to before...but I broke down in tears this morning because I had a stressful night with Sassy.

Since Charlie passing in end of October, yes I sensed she missed him greatly as she meditated soo much afterwards, but she was eating fine then tooo, like week or so after his passing. But as she got acclimated to being the lone cat, she walked around with more confidence rather then to sleep/stay away from Charlie...but she was also getting accustomed to eating in my room more often, especially bothering ME only for food. She doesn't go to my brother nor my mother for food ever, just me. Which is fine, I accept and I love her to death, but in the past weeks since around mid November or so, she been waking up in nights -usually to drink water or just use litter box, then over time she would ask for dry food. fine so I was like struggling to get up as it would be 3 or 4 am ( i go bed around midnight), so I just fed her quick inmy room, she'd eat all her cookies, then I guess sleep or stay awake as I would fall back sleep. Then another week or so after she'd eat that dry food at that time and then come back an hour or two later and still ASK for food in kitchen this time - she would eat most of her 3oz can + more fry food. Which was great, sure new schedule, but I was like hey, she got to eat. So late November - early December she been like that at least in mornings, defintely taking a toll on my sleep but I always go with saying - "Anything for my queen". Then in the past maybe week or 2, She'd want even round 2 of breakfast , so from her 5/6am meal, she'd ask again for some more food at around 8 or 9 am, she'd eat, then finally sleep (before this cat bed of hers) for maybe 4-5 hours straight up to around 2pm or so when she'd ask for some dry food. Then after that dinner time.

Now in the past week is when I noticed her breakfast were diminish as far as quantity she would eat, even within 2nd breakfast at 8/9am, so it was concerning a tad but she would somehow still eat her 3 part dinner just fine. But last night it startled me a bit where I'd give her favorite Salmon Pate can, she sorta ate it alright just licks and licks (her tongue must get tired at some point that causes to walk away eventually??) but she was barely finishing nearly half of that 5.5oz can by her 3rd meal which I thought wasnt enough. I tried giving her but she try to hide from me. She got underneath my brother's desk, and I fed her with utensil then she ate alot more, barely. Her eyes were mostly closed though as she ate it, I dont think i ever paid attention but is that normal? It wasn't closed tight but it was odd a bit. But that last attempt came around...1am (as I was still wake with family for New Years). She hate a good hefty amount by then so she cleaned herself and then went to her bed. I thought she would at least sleepy happily kinda full for at least a few hours...but No. As I had went to bed by 2am, she woke me up at 2:30ish, gave her dry food in my room, ate a little but not a lot (but she just ate at 1am..) so I said, ok fine. But she kept on coming back to my room EVERY 2 hours! It was nuts. 4:30/5am ish i tried giving her a new Pate can in kitchen as she followed me out there, but she just sniffed and walked away. I got furious because im dead tired and not sleeping well. I was dizzy and just not focused so I just packed her food away in fridge. She used bathroom to pass (little mushy stool though) then went to drink water. I left her because again I was dead tired. I closed my door and fell back asleep. Then she came back again at 645am...again for food. This time I tried her Fancy Feast gravy lovers, she licked...ate maybe just a 1/3 of that 3oz can, no dry food as I placed it on side but she didnt even want it. Then she walked away. I cleaned her plate, put it away and thats it. Went again back to sleep. Then she finally came back at 9am again for food...gave her fancy feast leftover, just licked a bit to make it about 1/2 of the can eaten in total, then I just took her bed away so she can remain awake. It's been a tough night but now every 2 hours shes trying to eat but I feel like...if she could just eat larger amounts in fewer sittings like before, she would sleep or not be as bothersome! It's crazy because my sleep has been messed up since November and its just taking a toll on me mentally and physically, my brain feels all fogged up. Last night was the worst being every 2 hours which I dont even know if thats normal or not now despite her being old at 18ryrs.

I went above and given her a very tiny portion of a 1mg broken pill of mirtazapine, she barely took it in as she kept spitting it out but she had some of it dissolved in mouth. She drank water after, she started to become abit more vocal asking for food. I then around 11:30am (still awake since 9am), I tried giving her the Pate I opened earlier in night but she only ate some of it in my room. Then she finally now went to sleep. Whether or not that Mirtzapine will give her that boost to eat, is to be seen yet. I don't even know how my vet could resolve this timing issue and eating such little amounts...let alone, what at least in the bloodwork would reveal that causes this? Because if it was CKD, Im sure it would be vomitting and just trying to avoid to eat copmletely until she gets medication and also be dehydrated. There are time I feared she following Charlie's cancer path because he was same way somewhat but he would be throwing up, blood in stool and really sleep the entire day. I would try to feed him whenever he asked which was barely just 2/3times a day...but he would also eat very very little and that got worse as time went on and his diagnosis. But he would avoid eating and just go straight back to sleep so he looked ill definitely. I mean, obviously it was since he had colon cancer, was in most likely pain and just nauseated/sick the whole time. He would actually hide under our table and such so he HAD that look of sick. Sassy? looks mostly like herself just sort of sudden smaller meals and so often. It's almost she just now sleeping in 2 hours intervals. I'm now almost certain she if had just slightly bigger meals or what she was back in November, she would be sleeping bit more and not have this crazy 2 hours schedule.

I plan on emailing directly my vet too, but he will just suggest to bring her in as its been a little over a year for last check up. I'm not reluctant to do it as I want to know if her CKD progressed and possible cause of this behavior late, or if anything else gets revealed, but to my family's point Sassy gets very stressed and I can't even go in with her because of Covid protocols. Id hate to take her, then she's worse off coming back home - mentally and physically.
 

FeebysOwner

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Ever consider 'old people' who just can't eat as much in one sitting as they used to? And, maybe some days they can eat more than other days? One day a certain food might taste just fine and the next time they eat the same thing it just doesn't taste as good. Ditto about some nights sleep/settling down doesn't come as easily as other nights. Same thing with taking more or longer naps one day, just because they don't feel as good as they did the day before, but the next day or so, they aren't feeling as bad and don't feel like they need an extra nap. I still think as long as you see such off-n-on behavior like that out of Sassy, it is less reason for alarm.

Some of it may also have to do with Sassy getting tired of some of the foods you are feeding her. You'll have to watch that to see if you can pick up on a pattern. It took me doing that with Feeby to realize that some of her old favorites were becoming her new-not-so-favorites. And, I think there are times Feeby is content to refuse food that she is less enamored with - even if she is hungry. I have 7 different canned foods I feed her, along with about 5 different Sheba/Nutro perfect portions as well. So, for Feeby's 'main' morning meal, she doesn't eat the same thing for 7 days!! Feeby has heard me in the kitchen and came rushing in, thinking I might have given her new food, only to find out that the same food she really didn't want is still sitting there - and, then she either turns around and walks away or sits directly in front of her bowl waiting for me to give her something else.

Two days ago Feeby ate just 230 calories, and yet yesterday she ate 293! She does this up and down thing all the time, and I have come to accept it as being part of my little old lady's new routine.

I understand about the stress of a vet visit, but I truly think she should have a check up again. I also understand about the restricted vet visits because of COVID. I actually delayed Feeby's check up for months, until I was lucky enough that our vet opened up their restrictions so I am able to go into the exam room with her now. She went a whole year without being seen because of that. But, that visit is also what started the realization that she is hyperthyroid. That being said - let the vet visit wait awhile longer and just start charting her off-n-on behavior to see if you can identify any patterns that would explain it, or until the 'off' becomes more frequent than the 'on'.
 
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miguel99nyc

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Ever consider 'old people' who just can't eat as much in one sitting as they used to? And, maybe some days they can eat more than other days? One day a certain food might taste just fine and the next time they eat the same thing it just doesn't taste as good. Ditto about some nights sleep/settling down doesn't come as easily as other nights. Same thing with taking more or longer naps one day, just because they don't feel as good as they did the day before, but the next day or so, they aren't feeling as bad and don't feel like they need an extra nap. I still think as long as you see such off-n-on behavior like that out of Sassy, it is less reason for alarm.

Some of it may also have to do with Sassy getting tired of some of the foods you are feeding her. You'll have to watch that to see if you can pick up on a pattern. It took me doing that with Feeby to realize that some of her old favorites were becoming her new-not-so-favorites. And, I think there are times Feeby is content to refuse food that she is less enamored with - even if she is hungry. I have 7 different canned foods I feed her, along with about 5 different Sheba/Nutro perfect portions as well. So, for Feeby's 'main' morning meal, she doesn't eat the same thing for 7 days!! Feeby has heard me in the kitchen and came rushing in, thinking I might have given her new food, only to find out that the same food she really didn't want is still sitting there - and, then she either turns around and walks away or sits directly in front of her bowl waiting for me to give her something else.

Two days ago Feeby ate just 230 calories, and yet yesterday she ate 293! She does this up and down thing all the time, and I have come to accept it as being part of my little old lady's new routine.

I understand about the stress of a vet visit, but I truly think she should have a check up again. I also understand about the restricted vet visits because of COVID. I actually delayed Feeby's check up for months, until I was lucky enough that our vet opened up their restrictions so I am able to go into the exam room with her now. She went a whole year without being seen because of that. But, that visit is also what started the realization that she is hyperthyroid. That being said - let the vet visit wait awhile longer and just start charting her off-n-on behavior to see if you can identify any patterns that would explain it, or until the 'off' becomes more frequent than the 'on'.
Hm, to your point about your Feeby may be content with refusing food even if shes hungry...then what happens? You mention that you think your kitty is content for rejecting a food...which may be the case for Sassy but that what triggers me the most. That's the primary issue I get and adds bit further stress. Let alone, this primarily happens 4-5am when im dead tired/foggy and such. My natural reaction is to open another brand of food which...she may end up eating (not all of it but something) then walk away. Again before, it hardly mattered what I opened she would eat it regardless PLUS in combination with dry food. Even if she would continue to lick the gravy only from her Fancy Feast (weeks prior), she would at least finish her dry food, on top of already having the dry food an hour or two prior to eating. That to me made me feel like, ok, she made up not finishing her Fancy Feast by eating the dry food i put on the side of it. But now a days she barely would eat a bit or two of the dry food next to her wet food, and still just lick up to a 1/3 only of fancy feast can. But then that of late, results in her waking up another 2 or so hours later around 8/9am to ask for more food, but by that time, good chance the leftover food she doesn't want anymore thus making me open up a newer can again which of course, she doesnt finish. Its rather stressful to the point where it feels like mind games more than illness. Now I feel like even probably sort of starving her in sense when she comes crying to me, to NOT give her food like right now - 230pm, she asked for dry food, just gave her VERY little and she ate it, walked to kitchen wanting more but I tried givine this opened 5.5oz can but she licked only and walked away. And I guess the very small tiny 1/4 bit of a 1mg mirtazapine didn't do much for her (unless she spit out which i checked but found some powder residue but not enough to be the whole bit of the pill). But the holding of food would be to just to get her a bit more hungrier later on for dinner see if she eats a slightly larger portion? If she still denies food mostly later on then that can indicate something is wrong, and if it persists this way for next few days. I just can't find or solve this equation of her = eating much less but more often every few hours, possible totaling out her normal intake in a day, what triggered for her to be that way almost...suddenly after Charlie's Passing. It can be related but from what Ive read, cats would probalby lose their appetite for some time missing their furry friend but, it didnt really seem like that. She gradually just began to eat less but more bit more frequently with no other signs of illness/complications. It's mind boggling.

And that's the other thing. Is there such thing, where she may not be really sick...and it is old age only possibly, and her behavior for an old cat being SUPER finicky with her food...that just Mirtazapine would be suffice? My vet would always say 95% time any cat shouldnt really need Mirtazapine as its just masking up an underlying issue. Which I can believe and agree with...so thats the reason why I always get scared when she doesn't eat, its because of an issue. What would confirm it is her reluctance to eat ANYTHING, and/or vomitting and diarrea, then for sure i Know something is wrong but that isnt the case right now which is why I want to think positive...but then again, cats are known to hide stuff very well from what I read. But to the vet's point, if these pills just mask an underlying issue, or in particular Mirtazapine since its only just stimulates her appetite (which is like kinda cheating her?), so are old cats supposed to continue going flawless as far as their eating habits and keep eating a lot or their normal amount all the way until the end? What disproves this is Sassy and even your Feeby, where as they get much older, like actual older human beings, would eat less in one sitting and overall eat less. I mean Cats are not humans per say, but I honestly don't know how true that older cats can be in comparison to older human appetites. Makes sense, but not sure how official that info can be.

For now I am holding on on vet visit for bit and continue to monitor her. Of course shall more symptoms show up, then I'll have to bring her right way.
 
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