My Cat Is Mean

[VBG]

Gus is my 4th cat. Not even 8 months old yet but he's 12.5 pounds and 3 feet long. Scottish Fold and, I presume, Maine Coon mix. My first cat was a MC and he was sweet as could be. But this guy...he's flat out mean, aggressive and dangerous. Every few days he'll go into a violent mode and I'm forced to hide from him. If not, I'm subject to sneak attacks where he'll launch himself onto my shoulder/head or go for my feet repeatedly. I have no way of knowing where he'll come from. I'm left scratched, bitten, bruised and bleeding. My right arm makes me look like a junkie from his numerous bite punctures. We've been to the vet and ruled out any physical ailment. They referred us to a behavioral Vet. They have a 3 month wait and $350 home visit. I can't take this for another 12 weeks. And even if we get an appointment sooner, they'll charge us for each home visit until he exhibits the bad behavior. In other words, it's a worthless racket. He goes outside with supervision at least 4 days a week for an hour minimum. We play with him every day and were training him to walk on a leash with harness. When he's not being mean he's sweet and cuddly and funny and all the wonderful things cats are. But when he's mean, he's too mean. I'm tired of being told to be patient until he grows up. I don't deserve this. I need real help, not a water bottle. Anyone?

 

[susanm9006]

Have you had him neutered yet?

 

[VBG]

Have you had him neutered yet?

Yes. He was neutered in March. In fact, he wasn't aggressive until AFTER!!

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

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Assuming that you know his general blood chemistry is normal, has your veterinarian done a gonadotrophin-releasing hormone stimulation test to ensure that this cat doesn't have retained testicular tissue? If not, it's the next reasonable step. Always look to the physical Nature foremost.
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[VBG]

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Assuming that you know his general blood chemistry is normal, has your veterinarian done a gonadotrophin-releasing hormone stimulation test to ensure that this cat doesn't have retained testicular tissue? If not, it's the next reasonable step. Always look to the physical Nature foremost.
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They didn't do a blood panel on our last vet visit. Ironically, it wasn't our usual Doc, but rather her partner. And I remarked to my husband that he seemed distracted and dismissive. Hmm. So he should have done that eh?

 

[Willowy]

I don't know if that's something that most vets would think to look for, so I wouldn't necessarily blame the vet for that one. But, yeah, I agree that the test for retained testicular tissues is a good idea; his behavior seems very tomcat-ish.

 

[VBG]

I don't know if that's something that most vets would think to look for, so I wouldn't necessarily blame the vet for that one. But, yeah, I agree that the test for retained testicular tissues is a good idea; his behavior seems very tomcat-ish.

Alright. We have an appointment on Monday and I have specifically requested the GnRh test. Meanwhile, Gus bit my husband this AM. It's going to be a looong weekend. Thanks ya'll, most useful help I've gotten thus far!!

 

[George?]

Maybe rubbing nail polish remover or something else nasty-bitter on your arms and ankles could help temporarily. At least, it might discourage repeated biting.

 

[Friend's Friend]

Yikes, friend! This sounds awful!

I'm curious if it's hormonal as well (testicular tissue left behind).

This might sound really glib, but I'm also curious about how long he was with his litter? Has he been around other cats? Is he hissing and growling and obviously on the offense when he goes for you and your husband? Because I also wonder if in his mind, he's just . . . playing. Extremely roughly, of course, but if he was never taught "kitty manners" (and by extension, human manners) as a baby, maybe he just doesn't know how to not play aggressively?

Good luck! Let us know how the blood tests come back . . . I really hope that it's a relatively straightforward medical fix. <3 And kudos to you two for loving him enough, despite everything, to want to work with him on this!

Sending you good thoughts,
Friend's friend.

 

[Friend's Friend]

P.S. In regards to the behavioral vet--and I agree, $350 a pop for a home visit until the cat displays the behavior is . . . well, it's a pretty penny!--perhaps you or your husband could try capturing video of it, either through a remote camera, like a laptop's, or even something on your phone (if your phone takes video)? That way you'll be able to show them what you're talking about and they don't have to be there? I guess it sounds like a long shot but I think it's equally as long a shot that he'll happen to attack when they're there, and at least going for video footage doesn't cost you anything.

Good luck! <3

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi!
I agree with @friends friend. If the test comes back with no definitive results, your boy could be needing a mama's direction regarding manners.

Have you tried anything like a really loud hiss when he's doing something you don't want? Also, try a strong shake of a half full can of coins to redirect his brain and actions and a firm NO. And, when you do get scratched, cry OW! and make it sound like another kitten.

Did you try calming products?
There are collars, sprays, diffusers, wipes, treats...
Some cats such as my Big Guy are completely unaffected by Feliway, but there are other products with different ingredients such as L-Tryphophan and casein.

there is Zylkene, Calming Care, Calm-o-mile, Sentry, Natures Miracle calming spray, Vetri-Science's Composure is another item to look at, Pet Remedy (it has valerian) is yet another, as is Essential Pet Pet-ease, Only Natural Pet (brand and website) has a calming product, Pet Naturals also has one I believe.
Lambert Vet Supply is a website to look at, and of course amazon and chewy, also there's Petwishpros, drsfostersmith, animaleo.

There are a couple of recent discussions about calming items, here's the link to one thread. Post #6 in this has a link to the second discussion.
Calming Treats?

 

[1 bruce 1]

My first thought is hyperesthsia, and second (and far fetched, but it's happened) is ketamine induced aggression since this became worse after his neuter, assuming the vet used ketamine...

 

[1 bruce 1]

P.S. In regards to the behavioral vet--and I agree, $350 a pop for a home visit until the cat displays the behavior is . . . well, it's a pretty penny!--perhaps you or your husband could try capturing video of it, either through a remote camera, like a laptop's, or even something on your phone (if your phone takes video)? That way you'll be able to show them what you're talking about and they don't have to be there? I guess it sounds like a long shot but I think it's equally as long a shot that he'll happen to attack when they're there, and at least going for video footage doesn't cost you anything.

Good luck! <3

Always always always agree with getting video footage! If it's aggression, or coughing, or sneezing or something "weird" they do a video is worth 1000 more words than a picture. They NEVER do this at a vets office or when someone is in the home.
Our cat with hyperesthesia was diagnosed from a video footage as well as his general history. I showed the vet a video of this cat staring at nothing, eyes dilated, ears pinned, tail swishing. The vet watched for 20 seconds and said "what am I looking for?" and immediately the video showed the cat going in circles, screaming and attacking/ripping into his own rear side. Crazy.
He'd NEVER do this at the vets and during any and all treatment he was sprawled out on the table, soft eyed, purring, kneading like royalty. This diagnosis would have absolutely been missed without a video of an "episode".

 

[danteshuman]

I'm assuming since you have cats that you know how to read cat body language, play with toys only... every day, re-direct him if he hunts you by throwing a toy away from you & have started to teach him cat manners? I agree the partner vet seemed kinda checked out. You might want to insist on only seeing your regular vet & talking to your vet about how their partner failed your cat.

So I'm going to guess that it isn't you, something is REALLY wrong with your cat. He isn't mean. He is in pain or mentally unbalanced. We don't hold pregnant ladies liable for breaking their husband's noses during labor... nor do we hold mentally imbalanced people responsible for being aggressive. We give the mom an epidural & help the mentally unbalanced person. A testicular issue? Needs prozac ASAP? I don't know. I think your vet needs to tell you.

Now I know everyone is anti-squirt bottles. However in this case I would be carrying a squirt bottle or penny can every where I went (and not let him sleep with me) until he is balanced out. That or confine him to one room ... but then he would have surplus energy and his behavior would probably be worse. I would feed him & ignore him except for daily wand play sessions. In no way would I try to pick him up or pet him. I would risk a 2 finger ear scratch if he was tired out & calm... but at the first sign of annoyance I would ignore him. If he can go a week without attacking you then you can put the penny cans down but within easy reach. As much as you love him, you can't let him attack you all the time. You can wind up in the hospital from a cat bite.

 

[maggie101]

That will make him meaner if you squirt him. I think there's an article about it on the catsite

 

[1 bruce 1]

I'm assuming since you have cats that you know how to read cat body language, play with toys only... every day, re-direct him if he hunts you by throwing a toy away from you & have started to teach him cat manners? I agree the partner vet seemed kinda checked out. You might want to insist on only seeing your regular vet & talking to your vet about how their partner failed your cat.

So I'm going to guess that it isn't you, something is REALLY wrong with your cat. He isn't mean. He is in pain or mentally unbalanced. We don't hold pregnant ladies liable for breaking their husband's noses during labor... nor do we hold mentally imbalanced people responsible for being aggressive. We give the mom an epidural & help the mentally unbalanced person. A testicular issue? Needs prozac ASAP? I don't know. I think your vet needs to tell you.

Now I know everyone is anti-squirt bottles. However in this case I would be carrying a squirt bottle or penny can every where I went (and not let him sleep with me) until he is balanced out. That or confine him to one room ... but then he would have surplus energy and his behavior would probably be worse. I would feed him & ignore him except for daily wand play sessions. In no way would I try to pick him up or pet him. I would risk a 2 finger ear scratch if he was tired out & calm... but at the first sign of annoyance I would ignore him. If he can go a week without attacking you then you can put the penny cans down but within easy reach. As much as you love him, you can't let him attack you all the time. You can wind up in the hospital from a cat bite.

Until he's figured out I would agree to a squirt bottle to keep everyone safe. This isn't a medical treatment of course, but until things are ironed out people need to be safe!
In rare cases, confinement to a single (preferably dark) room is helpful. If they're out of sorts and out of control, it's like putting someone who's having a melt down into a quiet room until they can calm a bit.
Our cat with hyperesthisia did not attack us but has weird fixations and will leap up onto me (claws and all, devoid of real aggression but it hurts). Shadows fascinate him. Food fascinates him. Treatment has helped (hormonal, we opted out of prozac) and he still has his issues but the treatments have helped enough that him learning what isn't acceptable isn't impossible.

 

[danteshuman]

I wasn't saying hose him down until he stops being aggressive. Long term it would not solve anything. I'm saying you need to protect yourself until you figure out/solve what is causing his extreme behavior. Penny cans are empty soda cans with 4-10 pennies in them & duct tape on top sealing the pennies in. It makes a VERY loud noise that scares the cat. A good way to normally train your cat? No! When your cat is charging at you claws & teeth drawn? Probably OK. When your cat is biting you and breaking your skin? Again probably OK to get you through those 3 weeks.

I would scruff the biting cat, remove the claws/fangs slowly, place the cat on the floor (still scruffing but supporting the but if I could), hold for a few seconds, then release the cat and ignore it (which gives you time to pour rubbing alcohol in those puncture wounds caused by the bites.) I would not attempt any interaction with the cat until I calmed down completely (festering anger of "HEY you hurt me!" is not going to help the cat view you as a non-threat.)

I like the video idea to hopefully it helps your vet figure out what is going on.

I had a semi-feral that scratched/bit me once. He is now sleeping in my cat tree, let's me hold him, likes petting(to a point) and i was able to teach him cat manners with very gentle cheek tapping followed by ignoring him. He doesn't have something seriously wrong with him, just a normal semi-feral neutered boy.

 

[1 bruce 1]

I wasn't saying hose him down until he stops being aggressive. Long term it would not solve anything. I'm saying you need to protect yourself until you figure out/solve what is causing his extreme behavior. Penny cans are empty soda cans with 4-10 pennies in them & duct tape on top sealing the pennies in. It makes a VERY loud noise that scares the cat. A good way to normally train your cat? No! When your cat is charging at you claws & teeth drawn? Probably OK. When your cat is biting you and breaking your skin? Again probably OK to get you through those 3 weeks.

I would scruff the biting cat, remove the claws/fangs slowly, place the cat on the floor (still scruffing but supporting the but if I could), hold for a few seconds, then release the cat and ignore it (which gives you time to pour rubbing alcohol in those puncture wounds caused by the bites.) I would not attempt any interaction with the cat until I calmed down completely (festering anger of "HEY you hurt me!" is not going to help the cat view you as a non-threat.)

I like the video idea to hopefully it helps your vet figure out what is going on.

I had a semi-feral that scratched/bit me once. He is now sleeping in my cat tree, let's me hold him, likes petting(to a point) and i was able to teach him cat manners with very gentle cheek tapping followed by ignoring him. He doesn't have something seriously wrong with him, just a normal semi-feral neutered boy.

The penny can thing is kind of an interrupter. They're doing something we hate, we shake the can, they pause, the moment is wrecked and things can go onto a more normal state. It works with some dogs, too, and if this doesn't work tossing something noisy like car keys at their feet does. The point is to stop that insane mind set! =)
Scruffing some cats doesn't work, but some of our over confident adults responded (in response to terrible behavior on their part) by taking their scruff (don't shake, grip, grasp, hold, or get pissed, just gently take it in your hand), give them a quiet but serious "not happening/cool it", let go and ignore. This isn't abusive, isn't advocating physical punishment, and doesn't work for ALL cats. With finesse, we've found it works as well as a seasoned nanny taking a childs hand firmly or giving them a "look" they recognize. Know thy dog, know thy kid, know thy cat. What works for one might not work for another...
IMO this is like making stern eye contact with a child and giving them "a look" when they've crossed the boundaries. It's a reminder, a warning, something they understand from previous encounters. Some kids push the limits, some kids see that "eye" and don't. Some cats push you, some don't. Some puppies are nightmares (we've had Border Collies babies, so yea) and some are not.
Dogs "get it" too, cats, not so much as queens seem to rarely use a stare but initiate a gentle slap-slap-slap or gently grab a kitten by the scruff.
One of our dogs will respond to a raised eyebrow as if we've beaten him with a baseball bat. Raise an eyebrow and side-eye him, and he stands up and slinks out of the room, shooting moon-eyed glances over his shoulder. We are careful not to do stuff to really make him upset.
One of our cats responds to a squinted look, a few of them recognize that "freeze frame" thing when we stop and just freeze, giving them a look. Most cats learn so fast.

 

[catsknowme]

I am very much interested what the results of the vet visit will be. Meanwhile, you look up some reruns of "My Cat From Hell" with Jackson Galaxy. Also, I highly recommend trying some calming remedies - like an angry teenager, your cat does not want to be this way.

 

[VBG]

First, thanks to everyone who offered suggestions and insight! Just reading the experience of other cat people has helped alot! Here's the latest; I always believed him to be younger than was stated and a few behaviors have indicated that he was taken from his Mom & siblings too soon. Obviously, he didn't get to learn acceptable play. We returned to the vet and although I specifically asked for the test, she wasn't prepared to do it. 1) She said she neutered him and is confident there's nothing left behind 2) Gave us tips and suggestions to document and record the behavior. *I should clarify that the Veterinarian is new to us, not the same practice who saw the previous 3 cats. I've never been totally thrilled with them but knew our imminent move to another state would soon force me to find a Doc with whom I can develop a rapport* The most important bit of advice was to kick him out of our bedroom and confine him overnight so he understands the hierarchy of our pride. We have also begun a regimen of the lowest concentrate CBD oil, approved by the Vet. Both of these actions has helped to decrease the number and ferocity of his attacks. The water bottle trick doesn't discourage him, he loves water and thinks it's an invitation to play. But the Doc suggested a small airhorn to redirect him in those moments. I'll get a couple of those today. I'm keeping a log of his actions to determine a pattern or trigger. So far he hasn't done the full on attack, but it was always so random, he could go 3 days without The Crazies. I'll update again in a week and hope to share good news.