My Bengal/siamese Kitten With Persistent Coughing/wheezing After Eating

[Timmer]

If it were me (and I know it is not) I would get them all off the Fancy Feast, if you can or else do it say, 4 times a week and do another brand three days a week.
You will need to read the labels and see what they all say. Why are you avoiding fish? Just asking.
I think of the price of food this way -- would you rather spend 10-50 cents more per can and have a healthy cat? Or would you rather spend the money on the vet bill? Because I can guarantee you the vet is more expensive than the food and easier for you.
What about Purina One? I'm not sure of the ingredients but my cat is doing well on it after years of Fancy Feast. It is more expensive but I do what I have to do.

 

[Richard2121]

Hi Richard - if your kitten has a chicken intolerance you should probably stop feeding him fancy feast entirely and switch to a proper limited ingredient diet. As far as I know all fancy feast contains chicken, sometimes listed as meat byproducts. Simply eliminating some flavours of fancy feast won't really solve the issue.

Natural balance makes some affordable limited ingredient diets, or I'm sure your vet can recommend a diet to you.

Any advice on how to convince him to eat the Natural Balance? I haven't even introduced it to him yet and I already know he's going to be pissed and probably hate the food. How do I transition him from Fancy Feast which as artificial flavors and can be quite addictive, to something new without all those added flavors?

 

[Richard2121]

If it were me (and I know it is not) I would get them all off the Fancy Feast, if you can or else do it say, 4 times a week and do another brand three days a week.
You will need to read the labels and see what they all say. Why are you avoiding fish? Just asking.
I think of the price of food this way -- would you rather spend 10-50 cents more per can and have a healthy cat? Or would you rather spend the money on the vet bill? Because I can guarantee you the vet is more expensive than the food and easier for you.
What about Purina One? I'm not sure of the ingredients but my cat is doing well on it after years of Fancy Feast. It is more expensive but I do what I have to do.

I tried to transition all of my kitties back to something healthier about a month ago and it was nearly impossible. I know the forti flora trick but then they seem to become addicted to the flavor of forti flora not the actual new food. So how do I get them transitioned to something healthier?

 

[Timmer]

Gradually mix it in with the old food.

 

[Wile]

Here is an article on food transitioning:
Transitioning Your Cat From Kibble To A New Type Of Food (canned, Raw, Or Homemade)
I've never fed fancy feast, so I am unsure if there is anything special about it that makes it really addicting or not. Flavour toppers are one option. Giving them the new food when they are hungry (after an exhausting play session) will also help. You could also buy or request samples of a few different cans and try out a "buffet" of different LID diets to see what your cat likes and will eat.

 

[Richard2121]

I have tried to keep people updated so I can get as much advice and perspective on this situation as possible. So last night my girlfriend and I went to PetSmart to get a few individual cans of food to test out so we could narrow down a few winners. We wanted to find at least one or two new foods/brands that Richard would eat that did not contain chicken. Well he decided he liked one of the brands enough to eat at least a decent portion. Nulo Beef & Lamb Recipe. It contains no chicken, although it has turkey lower on the ingredients list but I assumed this would not be an issue. Last night he did not cough after eating it. He was totally fine and had a mixture of foods that he tried. This morning he ate a pretty decent portion again, enough where I wasn't going to fight it. He went away to groom himself but he was following me around and I could tell he was still a little hungry. I did not want to give him any Fancy Feast though. So I tried giving him a small amount of Instinct Natural Rabbit LID dry food as a small snack to add to his meal. I was getting the other kittens away from the area and then I picked Richard up to redirect him towards the food bowl before another kitten could come over and take it. While I was holding him in one hand I could feel some sort of gas bubble or vibration in his stomach or esophagus area just before his neck, I could not pinpoint where it came from. But as soon as I set him down he began to cough or dry heave for about 10-15 seconds. He did not eat any of the dry food I put out but her immediately began playing with his brothers as if nothing happened. I am getting SO stressed out by this situation. We are in communication with the vet today and we got the coughing on video for a brief moment so we want to determine what our next step will be. We are ready to take him in this week for an appointment once we know if he is supposed to see a specialist or just his usual vet. In the mean time I was hoping to post the video here and see if anyone else had any ideas what this type of issue might be? I am praying it won't cost me a fortune to find out. I would do ANYTHING for Richard but we lost one 7 month old kitten to a congenital growth defect a few months ago and the medical expenses and overall experience left me traumatized.

 

[Richard2121]

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[Richard2121]

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[Wile]

I have tried to keep people updated so I can get as much advice and perspective on this situation as possible. So last night my girlfriend and I went to PetSmart to get a few individual cans of food to test out so we could narrow down a few winners. We wanted to find at least one or two new foods/brands that Richard would eat that did not contain chicken. Well he decided he liked one of the brands enough to eat at least a decent portion. Nulo Beef & Lamb Recipe. It contains no chicken, although it has turkey lower on the ingredients list but I assumed this would not be an issue. Last night he did not cough after eating it. He was totally fine and had a mixture of foods that he tried. This morning he ate a pretty decent portion again, enough where I wasn't going to fight it. He went away to groom himself but he was following me around and I could tell he was still a little hungry. I did not want to give him any Fancy Feast though. So I tried giving him a small amount of Instinct Natural Rabbit LID dry food as a small snack to add to his meal. I was getting the other kittens away from the area and then I picked Richard up to redirect him towards the food bowl before another kitten could come over and take it. While I was holding him in one hand I could feel some sort of gas bubble or vibration in his stomach or esophagus area just before his neck, I could not pinpoint where it came from. But as soon as I set him down he began to cough or dry heave for about 10-15 seconds. He did not eat any of the dry food I put out but her immediately began playing with his brothers as if nothing happened. I am getting SO stressed out by this situation. We are in communication with the vet today and we got the coughing on video for a brief moment so we want to determine what our next step will be. We are ready to take him in this week for an appointment once we know if he is supposed to see a specialist or just his usual vet. In the mean time I was hoping to post the video here and see if anyone else had any ideas what this type of issue might be? I am praying it won't cost me a fortune to find out. I would do ANYTHING for Richard but we lost one 7 month old kitten to a congenital growth defect a few months ago and the medical expenses and overall experience left me traumatized.

Hi Richard - Diagnosing food intolerance is a long game, not something that you track after every meal. I know it can be frustrating not to see immediate results, but keep in mind that it can take up to 13 weeks on a new diet to tell if it is working or not. Here are a few resources for you to look through. Most are for food allergies, but the advice also works for intolerance:
https://www.cavd.ca/images/In_Clinic_Tools/CAVD_Diet_Trial_handout_for_Cats.pdf
http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/diagnosing-food-allergies-dogs-and-cats-bring-your-case-trial
http://www.theskinvet.net/wp-content/uploads/RC-Essential-Guide-to-Elimination-Diet-Trials.pdf

My advice is to keep the new diet as simple as possible. Ideally you just want to feed one novel protein and one carb (venison and pea, or potato and rabbit) so that you can track his reaction to the new diet. A food like the Nulo that you mention might not be a good choice because it contains a lot of different ingredients. If Richard reacts to the food you won't know which ingredient is triggering the reaction.

The NVI rabbit limited ingredient diet, while expensive, is a good one to choose for a 13 week trial. They also make a slightly cheaper duck LID formula. Whatever diet you end up choosing, make sure that you stick with it for the full duration of the trial.

I also recommend sending that video to your vet. I just see a cat coughing, but a trained eye might see something else.

 

[Richard2121]

Hi Richard - Diagnosing food intolerance is a long game, not something that you track after every meal. I know it can be frustrating not to see immediate results, but keep in mind that it can take up to 13 weeks on a new diet to tell if it is working or not. Here are a few resources for you to look through. Most are for food allergies, but the advice also works for intolerance:
https://www.cavd.ca/images/In_Clinic_Tools/CAVD_Diet_Trial_handout_for_Cats.pdf
http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/diagnosing-food-allergies-dogs-and-cats-bring-your-case-trial
http://www.theskinvet.net/wp-content/uploads/RC-Essential-Guide-to-Elimination-Diet-Trials.pdf

My advice is to keep the new diet as simple as possible. Ideally you just want to feed one novel protein and one carb (venison and pea, or potato and rabbit) so that you can track his reaction to the new diet. A food like the Nulo that you mention might not be a good choice because it contains a lot of different ingredients. If Richard reacts to the food you won't know which ingredient is triggering the reaction.

The NVI rabbit limited ingredient diet, while expensive, is a good one to choose for a 13 week trial. They also make a slightly cheaper duck LID formula. Whatever diet you end up choosing, make sure that you stick with it for the full duration of the trial.

I also recommend sending that video to your vet. I just see a cat coughing, but a trained eye might see something else.

I did have to put some FortiFlora on his new food to get him to finish it, so I am not sure if this contributed to his coughing this morning. FortiFlora containts a"animal digest" and I imagine this is a cheap ingredient, perhaps chicken or something similar? Just shooting in the dark.

 

[Wile]

I did have to put some FortiFlora on his new food to get him to finish it, so I am not sure if this contributed to his coughing this morning. FortiFlora containts a"animal digest" and I imagine this is a cheap ingredient, perhaps chicken or something similar? Just shooting in the dark.

It is possible, yes. Chicken digest is one of the ingredients in a flavoured toothpaste that a vet recommended I not use during food trials. You need to make sure once the trial starts that he doesn't eat anything except his LID food. That means no treats, no toothpaste, nothing except his food.

 

[Richard2121]

So I had a lengthy discussion with our vet over the phone and she is very good at answering questions and explaining the diagnostic plan. We both had a lot to say about our theories and "best guesses" as to what could be causing this. One thing that stood out to me was parasites. This would explain the chronic soft stool and diarrhea. It would also cause coughing if the parasites have made their way up to the stomach/esophagus. But obviously we were unable to rule out other causes as well, including food allergy, asthma, mild pneumonia (from having multiple URIs), etc. The food allergy seems less likely due to the fact that he has virtually no other external symptoms and it happens so sporadically. That does not mean I will start feeding him chicken again anytime soon. I am going to avoid it like the plague for now and feed him some kind of LID.

 

[Richard2121]

I forgot to mention that we are going in for a vet recommended chest x-ray tonight and to get a fecal exam done. If they determine it is necessary we may have to send in for a fecal PCR panel which is more thorough and can identify various parasites and infectious things causing gastrointestinal problems. We are very excited, nervous, anxious, and a little scared. Keep your fingers crossed!

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Not only will I cross my fingers, I'm going to light a candle!

For future reference, in case chicken is an issue, it would be VERY rare for a cat to have allergies or sensitivities to both chicken and turkey. They are really not very similar...other than both being birds, and baking well, that is!

 

[Wile]

Not only will I cross my fingers, I'm going to light a candle!

For future reference, in case chicken is an issue, it would be VERY rare for a cat to have allergies or sensitivities to both chicken and turkey. They are really not very similar...other than both being birds, and baking well, that is!

I was actually told the opposite by my vet. She mentioned that in her experience cats that have trouble with chicken often have trouble with turkey as well because they are similar. This study is on humans, but mentions that chicken and turkey "are highly cross-reactive":

Update on the bird-egg syndrome and genuine poultry meat allergy

Chicken and duck are supposed to be different.

 

[Richard2121]

So this story seems to get weirder and more discouraging by the day....we are so exhausted and so stressed out about this whole mess and we know it's probably not something super serious, we just want to solve the issue and move on. 3 months is a long time to deal with chronic diarrhea, repeat URIs, coughing, worms and more. We have gone through so many possible diagnosis and gone to multiple vets because this area seems to have tons of vets but only a few good ones that want to be thorough and friendly instead of just rack up a big bill and send you home with countless medications and supplements. We went to a new vet last night about 20 minutes away from us. I had read good reviews online and they happened to be open 11 a.m. - 9 p.m. so neither of us had to miss work to take Richard to yet another appointment.

I know, another long story, but the vet instantly made us feel like Richard was in good hands. He was professional and thorough. He had lots of enthusiasm about selecting the right testing from the start and getting to the solution as quickly as possible. He reassured us that Richard's health was his top priority.

We started with a physical exam and the vet noted that although his eyes and nose appeared cleared up, upon closer examination he noticed that there was a slight clear discharge coming from both regions. We had originally told him that our usual vet recommended a chest xray but he was not so sure that this would give us the answer we are looking for. He said that due to his URI history, continual chronic diarrhea, cough, and the eye and nasal discharge, he may have gotten a secondary infection from the initial URI or this infection caused the URIs. He wanted to take a conjunctival/nasal PCR panel (sample) and send it into a lab for testing. The results won't get back until Monday or Tuesday next week but he was optimistic this will tell us more. Obviously if this comes back inconclusive we will have to lookfurther into the possibility of doing an xray or fecal PCR panel.

PLEASE keep your finger crossed and send good vibes our way We need some sort of diagnosis so we can be more at peace for a change!

 

[rubysmama]

Just came to this thread from your post in the Behaviour forum. I don't have anything to suggest, and it does sound like you may finally have a good vet. Fingers crossed for you and Richard.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

Although the outcome is still totally unknown, I feel like you are finally in good hands! WHAT a journey you have been on with this poor baby!

Keeping the candle lit!

I was actually told the opposite by my vet.

I do wish that vets would get together on this stuff. Conflicting information doesn't help anyone.

 

[Richard2121]

Although the outcome is still totally unknown, I feel like you are finally in good hands! WHAT a journey you have been on with this poor baby!

Keeping the candle lit!
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I do wish that vets would get together on this stuff. Conflicting information doesn't help anyone.

I know, I feel like we have been given so much information and so many suggestions it is overwhelming to decide what to pursue without wasting hundreds of dollars. Yes I feel bad for vets because I think they get a bad reputation from the few who are closed-minded and are not willing to be thorough and consistent in their approach. But my sympathy waivers when they seem to be running up a bill instead of actually trying to help the animal. I work in a human hospital and it is amazing the difference between human doctors and vets in their approach to patient centered care. There are good vets though, fortunately! I also think their schooling and training should adapt to modern era nutrition and diet information. Because I literally never get a good answer when I ask my vet for advice on food suggestions, etc. I almost feel more comfortable getting my answers on here for that.

 

[Wile]

I do wish that vets would get together on this stuff. Conflicting information doesn't help anyone.

Yes, it would be helpful to have more information on how to go about allergy testing for cats. I guess allergies are always individual, so testing really always needs to be tailored to the cat. Heck, some cats can't eat cooked chicken, but can eat raw without issues. Bizarre