MCHA for Younger Cat

[lcat4]

Hi All,  I'm reassessing my supplement options that I use for my raw and home-cooked foods.  This thread deals with MCHA freeze dried bone.

Right now I prepare some raw boneless ground meat with the TC Feline premix supplement for my youngest cat (Pepper) who is now almost 2 years old.  She is the only one of four cats to eat it.  The US version of TC Feline uses the MCHA freeze dried bone as the calcium source.  I've continued to use this supplement because I thought it was important for her to get the increased mineral nutrients that the MCHA provides for her growth and development.  All the other food that I prepare uses eggshell as the calcium source. She probably eats half and half of both types of food.  My question, should I continue to use this supplement as part of her food rotation?

I've read that growing cats require almost 3 times the minerals (per kg weight) than an adult cat needs for max development.  Some of this is obtained through the kitten eating more food (and she still eats a couple ounces more food a day than the other cats), but by its nature, MCHA (per gram) has more minerals, phosphorus/calcium..., than the eggshell calcium source.

So at almost 2 years old, is she still in need of more minerals beyond that of an adult cat?  Dr. Pierson struggled to "approve" using MCHA rather than real bone in her recipes because she felt it offered a reduced mineral composition, and I'm talking about removing MCHA from the diet.  Probably the right question is, do the other foods I prepare provide sufficient nutrient support for the development of a younger cat?  My other foods utilize Alnutrin as the supplement source, and I'm thinking of starting to prepare the separate supplement recipes that Mschauer has posted for my cooked meats (another thread to come), again using eggshell as the calcium source.  Both show to meet AAFCO's minimum requirements. Two of my cats have renal issues and require low phosphorus foods, so can't have MCHA in their diet.

I already make a special diet for one of my older cats, so I'd love to streamline my food preparation a bit and not have another food that only one cat eats.  But my priority is to do what's best for Pepper and if that means keeping MCHA in her diet, so be it.   I'm at the point of needing to order another bag...should I?

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[mschauer]

With regards to MCHA and eggshell there is no evidence that either is any better as a calcium source than the other. The argument for using MCHA is that since it has the same nutrient composition as whole bone (minus water and attached cartilage/tendons) it is a closer match to a cats natural diet with nutrients and/or a balance of nutrients not found in eggshell.

Where did you see Dr. Pierson discussing MCHA? I don't think I've ever seen her mention it on her site.

 

[lcat4]

I just looked, she actually doesn't say MCHA.  She discusses bone meal and specifically says the NOW Brand, which is MCHA.  My brain took her words to say MCHA.

I have no problem with using the calcium source of eggshell - obviously I use it for everyone else.  My question was whether, at a still young stage of life, Peps should have the additional nutrients - the extra phosphorus and magnesium...found in the freeze dried bone and not in the eggshell, and therefore keep the TC Feline in her rotation. 

It's easier for me if I stop making that food, one less thing to make sure is prepped and in the freezer, but it's not about me.

 

[mschauer]

 
I just looked, she actually doesn't say MCHA.  She discusses bone meal and specifically says the NOW Brand, which is MCHA.  My brain took her words to say MCHA.

You know MCHA and bonemeal aren't the same thing, right? They are both made from whole bone but bonemeal is highly processed using high heat that destroys nutrients. MCHA is freeze dried bone, a process that preserves the nutrients.

 
I have no problem with using the calcium source of eggshell - obviously I use it for everyone else.  My question was whether, at a still young stage of life, Peps should have the additional nutrients - the extra phosphorus and magnesium...found in the freeze dried bone and not in the eggshell, and therefore keep the TC Feline in her rotation. 

As far as I know the age of the cat has no bearing on the possible benefits of MCHA. 

 

[ldg]

You know MCHA and bonemeal aren't the same thing, right? They are both made from whole bone but bonemeal is highly processed using high heat that destroys nutrients. MCHA is freeze dried bone, a process that preserves the nutrients.

And a quick further note - use of MCHA and bone meal are not the same. How much bone meal to use is completely dependent on the amount of elemental calcium in any particular supplement. NOW calcium hydroxyapatite is the only MCHA available in the US in a capsule, so the amount of elemental calcium in the MCHA tables is based on that.

 

[lcat4]

Thanks for your help and clarification ladies!  I am aware of the difference between the two, but it should certainly be emphasized. 

I have decided to continue making food with the TC Feline premix supplement and give it to Pepper on a rotational basis.  This is what got me:

As far as I know the age of the cat has no bearing on the possible benefits of MCHA.  

Mschauer reminded me that nutrition is nutrition regardless of age.   What had I been thinking? 

The argument for using MCHA is that since it has the same nutrient composition as whole bone (minus water and attached cartilage/tendons) it is a closer match to a cats natural diet with nutrients and/or a balance of nutrients not found in eggshell.

I switched to using eggshell as the primary calcium source for both raw and home-cooked foods when my older boys presented with renal problems.  To be honest, my main purpose for feeding home prepped food is because I can provide better quality meats than found in canned food and can better control the protein/fat/carb percentage in their diet.  I don't know if feeding raw and cooked meats mixed with a balancing premix supplement achieves a cat's natural diet, but my cats seem to be the better for it.  As I don't want Pepper to miss out on any nutrient benefits the MCHA can provide, I will keep it in the "mix" via TC Feline. 

So, with all of this new thinking, It would be nice if my other girl would eat it too, but she keeps rooting around it when I add it to her plate.  There must be something in the mix that doesn't agree with her because she readily eats the Alnutrin (eggshell) prepared food mixed with the same meat.  I haven't tried it, does the freeze dried bone have a big taste difference from the eggshell?  Perhaps it's something else?

I know, LDG, that you use the MCHA as your calcium source on a rotational basis, but I just read (in a different thread), Mschauer, that you use the MCHA as well.  This caught me by surprise as (from what I remember) all the recipes you post use eggshell as the calcium source.  Have you posted any recipes with MCHA?  Do you use eggshell at all with your cats?  Have either of you noticed a difference (cat reaction) when your cats eat one calcium source versus the other? 

Anyway, as always, thanks for your help!

 

[mschauer]

So, with all of this new thinking, It would be nice if my other girl would eat it too, but she keeps rooting around it when I add it to her plate.  There must be something in the mix that doesn't agree with her because she readily eats the Alnutrin (eggshell) prepared food mixed with the same meat.  I haven't tried it, does the freeze dried bone have a big taste difference from the eggshell?  Perhaps it's something else?

I know the MCHA has an odor that makes Coco go nuts. It doesn't smell like anything to me but once I was emptying a bunch of  NOW MCHA capsules into a bowl and Coco kept sticking her head in the bowl sniffing and trying to eat it. It might have a beefy smell and taste given it is produced from beef bones.

 I know, LDG, that you use the MCHA as your calcium source on a rotational basis, but I just read (in a different thread), Mschauer, that you use the MCHA as well.  This caught me by surprise as (from what I remember) all the recipes you post use eggshell as the calcium source.  Have you posted any recipes with MCHA?  Do you use eggshell at all with your cats?  Have either of you noticed a difference (cat reaction) when your cats eat one calcium source versus the other? 

I only use MCHA but the recipes I post use eggshell because so few people use MCHA. Probably what I should do is post the recipe with MCHA and include in the notes section an amount of eggshell people can used instead. 

 

[lcat4]

Well Socks, my other girl, loves beef, so perhaps it's something else in the premix.

It would be interesting to see the differences in the nutritional analysis for your recipes - with MCHA vs eggshell as the calcium source.

As I said, I'm reviewing everything.  As it stands now, I won't change my supplements for my raw ground meat and will continue to use both Alnutrin (eggshell) and TC Feline (MCHA).  Unless Socks changes her mind, Pepper will be the only one consuming the latter.  I now also use Alnutrin to balance my cooked meats and I'm thinking instead of using the separate ingredient recipes in the Cooked Meats Recipe thread.  I'm thinking that might be a good complement to the Alnutrin/raw meat mix.  They get a little bit of both (raw and cooked) at each meal.  I'm sure I'll come asking questions...

Thanks again!