Korat or Russian Blue??

grandpa2390

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I adopted a cat from Petsmart. The placard said it was a Russian Blue. 

I am not a fool. The odds of it being a Russian is slim to nothing. But I am curious about whether it has the look of Russian Blue / Korat or if it looks like just a blue domestic.

One thing that I am having difficulty with is the "five Hearts" I can't find any pictures that clearly illustrate what the hearts look like so I can compare. The only one that is obvious is the one on the chest. my cat doesn't have that one, but from what I read, it may still be developing. My cat just turned 1 a couple months ago. The breed site described the color of the eyes, and for his age, they are the correct color. sometime within the next couple of years, they should turn emerald if he is a Russian/Korat. But then again, what do the green eyes look like.

The big issue is that it is hard to find good pictures. Everyone posts pictures of their cats online and claim a breed, and so I don't know which ones are truly Russian/Korat

I doubt he is a Russian because he is a bit "cobbly" I am not sure I understand what cobbly means, but he is not super slim like pictures of Russians like this one http://www.vetstreet.com/cats/russian-blue-nebelung#1_wm0slq1w

He is more cobbly like this one http://www.vetstreet.com/cats/korat#1_vapz8bjr

Anyways, I will try to post some pictures, but he is hard to capture... He is a little, energetic/rebellious. Hard to keep him still long enough, or in the right position long enough to get a head shot, a profile shop, and an aerial shot of his head.
 
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Kieka

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/rant Go to any shelter, rescue or even vet in the country and a pointed cat of unknown ancestry will be labeled a "Siamese". Doesn't matter how close to an actual Siamese they are; body shape, head shape, brightness of the blue in their eyes, how clean their body coloring, or even if they have white marks within the pointed areas. They will be labeled a "Siamese" (unless we are talking a fluffy cat and then they become "Ragdoll"). It's treated more as a color instead of a specific breed. I've just gotten to the point that I mentally change "Siamese" to "Pointed" because that is what they actually mean. The same is true for "Russian Blue" and it's used to identify any solid blue coat colored cat. /end rant

Obviously, you know that and are trying to find out how close to the real breed of Russian Blue yours is. I did the same with mine and the best advice is to post pictures. In terms of researching yourself, I looked for breeders who compete in shows and looked at the photos they posted to compare with. Also look at the breed description and for someone who has a labeled photo (harder to find) that points out the specifics you are looking for. It's easy to see what we want to see though in our own cats so getting outside opinions is invaluable.

Without any photos of your cat it's hard to give any guess as to how close to an actual Russian Blue he might be. My cats, Link and Rocket, describe similarly but when I post a picture of Link standing its an instant, "Oh, yeah. He is probably a few generations removed from purebred Siamese by his body shape" but Rocket is just pointed gene. Link is standing below and Rocket sitting, this photo is bad it's almost a year old he's thinned out more and gotten darker while she is bigger and darker but still round, lol, but it's what I have to demonstrate the point of similar characteristic but a photo speaks more than I could describe. 


As to how to get those photos, sport shot is amazing and take 50 pictures at a time. Seriously. I currently have 500 photos on my phone, probably 80% of my cats and that's just photos since I cleaned my phone off in August. I probably only keep 1 out of every 20-30 photos I take of my cats. Rocket never stops moving, never. But I get shots like this sometimes when I just take photos as they play between 20 blurry shots: 


The other trick is to get their attention on a toy, play for a little until they tire some, and pull it away so that it is near your camera. They will freeze while they watch the toy and you get shots like these: 

 

Or this one was when she was towards the end of playing with a beetle Link brought in: 


But most of my shots are sleeping cats or relaxing after a meal or play time. 

.... completely off topic, but those are all baby Rocket photos (A year ago) because that's what I have on this computer and I forgot how little she was and light. 
 
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posiepurrs

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Try googling korat breeders. Most breeders have photos of their cats on their websites. By looking at several sites and poses, it should give you a good idea.
 
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grandpa2390

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Your cat is pretty. I am going to work on getting some good pictures, then post them in a new thread. I doubt he is a Russian Blue or Korat. It is not out of the realm of possibility since there are breeders in this state. It is improbable that he is pure. But possible. More probable is that he is a mix, and that is what I am more or less interested in as you surmised.
As to how to get those photos, sport shot is amazing and take 50 pictures at a time. Seriously. I currently have 500 photos on my phone, probably 80% of my cats and that's just photos since I cleaned my phone off in August. I probably only keep 1 out of every 20-30 photos I take of my cats. Rocket never stops moving, never. But I get shots like this sometimes when I just take photos as they play between 20 blurry shots: 


The other trick is to get their attention on a toy, play for a little until they tire some, and pull it away so that it is near your camera. They will freeze while they watch the toy and you get shots like these: 

 

Or this one was when she was towards the end of playing with a beetle Link brought in: 


But most of my shots are sleeping cats or relaxing after a meal or play time. 

.... completely off topic, but those are all baby Rocket photos (A year ago) because that's what I have on this computer and I forgot how little she was and light. 
Your cat is pretty. I am going to work on getting some good pictures, then post them in a new thread. I doubt he is a Russian Blue or Korat. It is not out of the realm of possibility since there are breeders in this state. It is improbable that he is pure. But possible. More probable is that he is a mix, and that is what I am more or less interested in as you surmised.
 
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grandpa2390

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Wish I could edit my post, I messed that previous one up. He is definitely a blue cat. He is so pretty. He isn't just grey. People come in and randomly comment on how he looks "blue". Astounded by his color, as if they had never heard of a blue cat before. I have had a couple people comment on how he walks on his toes like a ballet or something. They compare him to their cats that kind of clomp around. I don't know much about cats, so I can't judge.

Russian or not, I love his coat :D

He is definitely a blue cat. 
 

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Wish I could edit my post, I messed that previous one up. He is definitely a blue cat. He is so pretty. He isn't just grey. People come in and randomly comment on how he looks "blue". Astounded by his color, as if they had never heard of a blue cat before. I have had a couple people comment on how he walks on his toes like a ballet or something. They compare him to their cats that kind of clomp around. I don't know much about cats, so I can't judge.

Russian or not, I love his coat :D
He is definitely a blue cat. 
Link stomps around and Rocket tiptoes so I get what you mean with that. There is a little pencil tool on the posts that you can click to edit.
 
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msserena

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Try googling korat breeders. Most breeders have photos of their cats on their websites. By looking at several sites and poses, it should give you a good idea.
This was something I was going to suggest, but contact them Find like 3 breeders, write to them & ask if you could send some pictures & if they could tell you their opinion. That's what I did when I suspected my cat had some Bengal in her, whatever the majority opinion is I would trust that.
 
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grandpa2390

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Edit: I hope I am not going overboard, but I hate to keep editing a post in case someone is in the process of reading it.

I was thinking Korat because of his figure, but I am thinking maybe it is possible he is just a little overweight because his personality is very much like a Russian Blue. Or maybe he is a blend, or a Domestic Shorthair who just rolled the dice. I would love to get one of those DNA test just out of curiosity, but a 100 dollars seems a bit... meh. I finally had the opportunity the other day to see how he reacts around strangers, and he jetted off into the my roommate and hid under the bed until my guest left. I tried to hold him out of the room, but he was clawing at me trying to escape, so I let him go hide. So I am thinking overweight Russian Blue is the cat he most resembles, even if he isn't a Russian Blue. ;)

I was feeding him 3/4 food per day as it says on the bag, but I am beginning to think that it may be too much. He often doesn't finish the food by the end of the day, and usually has some left over in the morning. So I reduced him to 2/3 and the same thing. Now I am trying 1/4 twice daily. 

I have some pictures. They make him look more grey than what he is in real life. May be the lighting or my sad iPhone camera... The first picture is the one that really shows his color... well maybe he is somewhere in between, because in certain lighting, the camera has a tendency to make him more bluish than what he is in real life. It was so funny because my guest the other day walked in, and commented that he looked blue. This was the first time my guest saw my cat, and we had not had a previous conversation about my cat.

I replaced my doorknob with a lever. I want to see if he can figure out how to open the door. I can already see him eyeing it when I am opening it ;). It would be useful because sometimes my roommate shuts the door and his food, water, and litter box are all in there.

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grandpa2390

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He loves fetch. I will be sitting on the couch, or trying to sleep, or playing my guitar and he will bring a bottle cap (his favorite toy) to me to throw. If I don't, he will sit there and whine, rub against my leg, kick the cap around until I throw it. Or until he gives up (but he is persistent). If I am in bed, and if he wants to fetch or something, he will paw at me, nibble on me, etc. 

I am going to pull out my good dslr and see if I can't snap a better photo
 
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grandpa2390

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He's got a tabby? tail with a kink in it. Not a Russian Blue (or at least not pure unless pure breeds can have pet quality imperfections like this), but besides that. The stripes are not this dark and pronounced in real life. In these pictures, they really pop, but in real life they are faint. Just the lighting. In real life, you kind of have to look hard to see them. Or know that they are there.

Otherwise, he definitely has the coat as described on sites. it's kind of like a carpet too where it changes color and looks darker if you rub your hand across it against the grain.

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grandpa2390

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He likes to follow me around the house. Like the Korat/Russian, he has to be a part of everything I do... If I am brushing my teeth or taking a shower. he has to be at my feet, or lying on the floor. He is afraid of water, so when I am taking a shower, he retreats as far from the shower on guard as possible, but he has to be in there.

In my room, when I am doing my homework, etc. 

At night he likes to curl up next to me. He might be sleeping on his perch, and then I will roll over in the middle of the night and find him right next to me. He doesn't sit on my shoulder, but since I got him around February, he has been warming up to me. At this rate, in a couple months he might be on my shoulder.

He is a little over a year old.

If I am watching TV, he is either sleeping next to me (or on the chair next to me, but near to me nonetheless), begging me to throw the water bottle cap, or just sitting there staring at me.

Mauve paws. 

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GoldyCat

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His head and body type are closer to the Korat than to the Russian Blue, although he's a bit chubby for a Korat. What is the fur like and what color are his eyes? I can't really tell from the pictures on my monitor. Many solid color cats have ghost tabby markings, so that doesn't tell you much about his background.

These are the descriptions from the CFA breed profiles and standards:

Russian Blue
The coat color is an even, bright blue, and each guard hair appears as if dipped in silver – giving the Russian a silvery sheen and lustrous appearance. In contrast to the blue coat, the Russian Blue has large, rounded, wide-set eyes that are vivid green.
Korat
The Korat has a unique color, defined as silver-tipped blue, which gives it a shimmering shine. The color appears to absorb light, giving a “halo” effect. It is a short, single and close-lying coat. The roots are lighter with color increasing in shade up the shaft to a deeper blue until it reaches the tips, which are silver. The silver tipping is more prevalent on the muzzle and toes. Eye color: luminous green preferred, amber cast acceptable.
You can find the full descriptions for Korats and Russian Blues on the CFA website.


Without registration papers showing the parentage, your kitty is considered a Domestic Shorthair (DSH). Both the Korat and Russian Blue were developed from natural breeds, which means there are similar cats out there in the random population that were not produced through a breeding program. Whatever his history, he's a gorgeous cat. What is his name? Or did you already say and I just missed it.
 

Kieka

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Awww, he is super cute. I am glad you were able to get some good pictures. I'd guess he is a few generations removes if he is either; the body shape just isn't there.

It sounds like he is a wonderful companion though and he is beautiful.
 

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I think he could get a job as a stand in for a pet quality RB, european type. These are darker than the usual american type, whom are in a noticeably lighter nuance, light silver blue instead a darkish silver blue.

Esp on some photos he has the RB looks.  As I see, he does has green / greenish eyes.  The ghost stripes seen on an adult ARE a fault for a Show quality RB, but we already conceded him to be ap pet quality look alike.

Observe, if you truly believe he is a RB look alike, perhaps even a real RB of pet quality where the breeder got rid of him cheaply just because he wasnt of the regular american standard -  they are supposed to be slender and nicely muscled...   So he has a quite "excellent appetite" for a RB...

And if he is a pretty blue moggie without no russian connection - he is still somewhat on the fatty side.  It could be OK on a senior citizen, but is too much on a young man in his prime....
 
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grandpa2390

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His head and body type are closer to the Korat than to the Russian Blue, although he's a bit chubby for a Korat. What is the fur like and what color are his eyes? I can't really tell from the pictures on my monitor. Many solid color cats have ghost tabby markings, so that doesn't tell you much about his background.

These are the descriptions from the CFA breed profiles and standards:

Russian Blue
Korat
You can find the full descriptions for Korats and Russian Blues on the CFA website.


Without registration papers showing the parentage, your kitty is considered a Domestic Shorthair (DSH). Both the Korat and Russian Blue were developed from natural breeds, which means there are similar cats out there in the random population that were not produced through a breeding program. Whatever his history, he's a gorgeous cat. What is his name? Or did you already say and I just missed it.
Right I looked at all of the descriptions, but I wanted an outside opinion ;)

He is a bit chubby for a Korat, but I am thinking I have fed him too much. I am cutting back on his diet. He does not pass all of the fat tests (feeling ribs, waistline, etc). I feel so guilty and afraid that he may actually be hungry... I know how I feel when I am hungry and can't get any food. I absolutely doubt he is pure. He is definitely a DSH, but I am just wondering if he has the features of a Russian Blue/Korat. 
The coat color is an even, bright blue, and each guard hair appears as if dipped in silver – giving the Russian a silvery sheen and lustrous appearance. In contrast to the blue coat, the Russian Blue has large, rounded, wide-set eyes that are vivid green.
I am a new cat owner (never thought I would ever get a cat... ever. Then on a whim, I just decided to adopt a cat a few months ago, and I haven't looked back. That being said, I believe I have been overfeeding him. I am putting him on a diet. He is definitely overweight. Whether he will ever have the body of a Korat I don't know. I will return with thinner pictures.
 
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grandpa2390

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Just to be certain. Relationship wise, whether he is a certain breed does not "make or break" him for me. I am not worried about pedigrees and so forth. No matter what, he is a beautiful cat with a beautiful coat.  And I love the little guy. Never thought I would like a cat, but I love this little guy. I like when he crawls into bed with me in the middle of the night. Gives me the impression that he really likes me in a more meaningful way than a dog does. It just seems more... sincere. earned... etc.

I love the way he cleans his face. Never thought about it before I had him. The way he licks his leg and then rubs his face over and over... :D precious.

I am more interested in predictability. Personality-wise. What can I expect, should expect, etc. You get it for the breeds, but for DSH there is no straight answer. DSH are too diverse. Well... whatever he is, his personality seems to be aligning with the RB. Except the litter box. Or maybe I am just not letting it get dirty enough... I don't want to find out. lol.

@GoldyCat  Forgot to answer you. His name is Mali

I know Malley sounds generic, but Mali was not the original intention. It is a shortened version of the name I had in mind... ah well. I like it and think it fits. Better than Myles. (that is what the shelter named him)

@GoldyCat   @Kieka  @StefanZ  

This question keeps popping in my mind. If we assumed that he had RB or Korat in him a few generations removed, how is that possible? don't breeders always spay and neuter the offspring to prevent competition?
 
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StefanZ

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Just to be certain. Relationship wise, whether he is a certain breed does not "make or break" him for me. I am not worried about pedigrees and so forth. No matter what, he is a beautiful cat with a beautiful coat.  And I love the little guy. Never thought I would like a cat, but I love this little guy. I like when he crawls into bed with me in the middle of the night. Gives me the impression that he really likes me in a more meaningful way than a dog does. It just seems more... sincere. earned... etc.

I love the way he cleans his face. Never thought about it before I had him. The way he licks his leg and then rubs his face over and over... :D precious.

I am more interested in predictability. Personality-wise. What can I expect, should expect, etc. You get it for the breeds, but for DSH there is no straight answer. DSH are too diverse. Well... whatever he is, his personality seems to be aligning with the RB. Except the litter box. Or maybe I am just not letting it get dirty enough... I don't want to find out. lol.

@GoldyCat  Forgot to answer you. His name is Mali

I know Malley sounds generic, but Mali was not the original intention. It is a shortened version of the name I had in mind... ah well. I like it and think it fits. Better than Myles. (that is what the shelter named him)

@GoldyCat   @Kieka  @StefanZ  

This question keeps popping in my mind. If we assumed that he had RB or Korat in him a few generations removed, how is that possible? don't breeders always spay and neuter the offspring to prevent competition?
Its the common practice in USA, but nothing is ironclad.   Also, its surely may happen  a cat can sneak out when in heat.  It happens the whole time with moggies, it may happen with purebreds too.  Even if breeders are much more careful and safeguarded than the average cat owner.

Also, it wouldnt suprise me if some let their studs get out, to diminish their eternal whining. Perhaps also to get some sharp training, so they will be more knowleable when a paying lady arrives....

There are also the BYB breeders whom are much less careful with what and to whom.

And last, but not least.  It does happens now and then, a cat gets lost. During transport to Show, from a mating occasion, even from a vacation journey.  You dont even need to be careless, just unlucky

I know several examples just from the rather small Scandinavian Swedish / Norwegian RB community.   

So such mishaps are probably not so rare as most thinks.
 

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Cat genetics are a fun game. I once had a cat who looked very close to purebred Maine Coon. She was a rescue from a backyard breeder/horder type situation. The person had just gotten so many cats of the same type together and let them breed that eventually she started getting kittens that looked Maine Coon but weren't really Maine Coon.

I think someone mentioned that most modern cat breeds are from naturally occurring colors, body types and personalities. Unlike dogs where breeder pick and choose to change to something else and you now have a very narrow and specific genetic pool. Cats tend to be more genetically diverse even within a specific purebred. And since the breeds tend to come from naturally occuring traits those traits still occur naturally in the same combination at times.

The bottom line if you can run across a cat with distant connections to a specific breed who is simply displaying throwback traits to a few generations back. You can also have two cats who both have great grandparents of a specific breed who meet and their children have more traits of that breed. Or, like someone else said, a show cat can get out, lost, or (sdly) stolen and you end up with the genetic traits getting out in the local community. Most resonsible breeders are careful but accidents happen. Or you could just win the genetic lottery and find a cat who has no connection to a recognized breed but has every trait.
 
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