Kitty Virus Quandary

[FirstRescue]

Not sure whether to continue famciclovir or not...Vet believes both kitties have feline herpes or calicivirus and says it's really common in rescues.

The suspects:

1. Cleo, 6 months old, blind (enucleated). Vet says that her tear ducts were removed but remaining tissues can still weep. One eye was really bad two weeks ago, with pink pus discharge. She got a shot of antibiotics and improved immediately. So that was clearly bacterial (maybe secondary to the virus). She's had wet sneezes since I got her 5 weeks ago, no better or worse.

2. Pixel, 5 months old, scrawny, needs to gain weight. She had pinkeye when I adopted her. The eye improved some with NeoPolyDex (or got better in spite of the drops). She's started to sneeze in the past few weeks.

The vet said they probably have a virus (no testing done). I started them on famciclovir a little over a week ago. Cleo has tolerated the drug well but is extremely difficult to pill. Her eye and nose symptoms are maybe a little better, but her appetite is off. She has remained playful (in fact, is bullying Pixel, which I'm trying to deal with). They both get an L-lysine supplement gel, which they seem to like.

Pixel was very drug sensitive and had to be ramped up on dose to avoid vomiting. It knocked back her appetite, and all she wanted to do was sleep. Also, she got her second FVRCP vaccine when she saw the vet last week. She limped on her right rear leg right after that. She is still limping today and a bit stiff overall, but the limp has improved. (Cleo got the same vaccine, but no limping.) Pixel has no oral ulcers that I can see. Her respiratory symptoms improved a little while on the drug.

Anyway, I think it might be more important for Pixel to gain weight than to deal with a virus that can't be cured. So I took them both off the drug two days ago. Pixel's appetite is back and she's playful again. But her eyes are starting to look worse, a little bit pink and weepy, though both eyes are fully open. Cleo's eye is a little more weepy off the drug, also, but is eating well and super playful. Both still have wet sneezes, which is a fun way to wake up their guardian :-)

So the drug might be helping symptoms, but it can't be good for kittens to eat less than they should. Has anyone seen these viral symptoms clear on their own, or has anyone got cats where the symptoms never got better even into adulthood? I have no idea what to expect.

I also don't know if getting the symptoms under control is just for the cats' comfort, or if getting it under control now will help them suppress the virus in the long term.

I know you can't give me medical advice, but you can maybe say what you would do if you were in my situation, or give me some resources, or tell me your experiences.

I'm willing to take them to a vet, but just as with doctors, if you talk to three, you will get three different opinions, and two of them will be wrong. That's not a knock on vets/docs; medicine is complicated. So I believe in being more proactive.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

@ashade1, you know as much about this stuff as anyone I know. Any ideas?

 

[stephanietx]

Famciclovir is given to help keep herpes symptoms at bay. I have a herpes kitty who was diagnosed 10 years ago and she also has terrible airborne allergies. She also had calicivirus as a kitten when we adopted her at 7 mos of age. Medication helped clear up the calici, but the herpes symptoms are life-long and only manageable, not curable. There is a test that can be run on any nasal discharge to accurately diagnose herpes if you really want confirmation, the real PCR URD test. It also tests for other upper respiratory diseases such as chlamydia.

One thing you want to try to avoid with herpes kitties is steroids. Steroids compromise the immune system and make it easier for kitties to get sick. Also, no more boosters until the kitties are completely healthy and not showing any active signs of sneezing or weepy eyes. It's even possible that the FCVRP shot is aggravating things and making the symptoms worse. It's the "R" part in that combo vaccine that is hard on kitties with upper respiratory/herpes symptoms.

What we did to help her was switch her to a grain-free diet. Grain has a compound in it called arginine. Arginine helps the herpes virus replicate which increases the symptoms in a cat. We also started giving her L-Lysine twice a day. We started her off at 250mg 2x a day because she was so little. It's important to dose twice a day because lysine is an amino acid and is eliminated when your kitty urinates. Lysine helps stop the replication of the herpes virus. Lysine dissolves easily in water, so we add a bit of water to wet food and mix in the lysine. It can take up to a month to see any benefits from Lysine, so if you try this, be patient. We purchase the 1 pound powdered variety online, but you can get capsules and open them up and sprinkle on food or you can crush pills and mix into wet food.

The second thing we did was add a daily supplement to her food to get her as healthy as possible. We give her Missing Link twice a day in wet food. This helps her overall health. The healthier you can get a kitty, the better they will be able to fight off flare ups.

Reduce stress. Moving to a new home is very stressful for a kitty. New sights, new smells, new people, new routine, new sounds, new everything. Kitties thrive on routine and that helps them remain calm. Establish a routine. Feed at the same time daily, go to bed at the same time, play sessions at the same time. You might also want to invest in some Feliway diffusers to help de-stress your home. When it's time to change my diffuser, my girl starts sneezing excessively. The diffusers don't work for everyone, but it's worth a shot to try them.

We also give our kitty eye drops in her nose. We have also used them in her eyes to clear up conjunctivitis. We use Gentamicin or Tobramicin drops to help clear up any mucous when she is exceptionally snotty and sneezy. This seems to help. You can also try plain saline drops like Little Remedies Little Noses drops. Just one drop in each nostril 2-3 times a day will help them eliminate any mucous. Steaming in the bathroom will also help with any congestion. What we have recently had a lot of success with is giving my girl nebulizer treatments. This has cut down on her sneezes and sneezing fits tremendously! She will now go several days with no sneezes, which is a vast improvement over snot-flinging sneezing fits many times a day.

I know this is a long read, but I hope it helps you and your kitties.

 

[FirstRescue]

Thanks so much for the detailed reply! Lots of good info there.

I could get the PCR test just to make sure that no other course of treatment is needed. What medication worked to clear up your kitty's calicivirus symptoms?

On diet, I have them on a grain-free diet of Sheba canned but want to transition them to raw when their tummies get more stable. They already get an L-lysine gel treatment and I plan to continue that forever. The Missing Link supplements look interesting. I imagine the garlic ingredient is low enough that it's not harmful to kitties but might have some beneficial effects against hostile organisms?

I made a batch of plain chicken bone broth (chx+water only) yesterday, and add a tbsp of that to their meal to get more liquid in them and maybe get the chicken soup effect, who knows?

I'll definitely avoid steroids. I'm no fan of anti-inflammatories for acute conditions for exactly the reason you state: why suppress the immune system when the kitties (and people) need it most? I should have researched the booster vaccine. The rescue told me they needed the shots and had already scheduled it with the vet, so I went along and got the vaccines. Probably should have waited, as you said.

I need to get the routine down better, and thanks for that reminder about stress. I just started some separate play sessions to help picked-on Pixel relax without watching out for Cleo to barrel in and take over. In our first session, Pixel nervously watched the closed door for a while, then settled into play while purring, so the bullying was probably worse than I thought. I'll give the Feliway a shot in the two rooms we're in the most and see if Cleo calms down. (The rescue said they were "bonded" but looks like not so much, sadly.) Do you use the Feliway multicat formula or the original formula?

I'll give the plain saline drops and bathroom steams a try for congestion. If it looks like they need a nebulizer, did you make a homemade box for that? Saw several on youtube.

Thanks for taking the time to write!

 

[stephanietx]

The garlic amount in Missing Link is minimal. We've been giving it to our kitties for 10 years with no side effects. We get the Well Blend Veterinary Formula. I get it online from California Vet Supply because it's cheaper, especially if you order in bulk. We purchase 6 at at a time. (We have 5 cats, though). missing link, shark cartilage, well blend, cat vitamins, cat supplements

For years, we used the regular Feliway. For the past 6 months or so, we've been using the mulitcat variety and have found it works better. I buy it from Amazon.

We did not make a nebulizer box. Hannah doesn't mind being confined too much, so we just put her in her carrier and use that. It doesn't give her the full amount, but it gives her enough to really help her.

 

[FirstRescue]

I'll try a small amount of the Missing Link just to make sure they'll eat it. If they like it, you gave me a good source for buying in bulk. Also, I will get the multicast Feliway and hope that helps Queen Cleo.

I like the carrier idea for a nebulizer. They sometimes sleep in their carrier, so it would be less stressful than a box.

Thanks again for the great suggestions.

 

[NewYork1303]

We have an adult cat with feline herpes. He does well with Lysine given when he is having bad outbreaks. The completely grain free diet and minimizing stress is also extremely important for him. Part of his eyes were removed as a kitten because they were damaged by the virus and a secondary bacterial infection. Both eyes weep constantly, but weep worse if he is having feline herpes symptoms. The problem clears up for him just with the addition of the Lysine.

He and the rest of my cats started on a frozen commercial raw diet recently for one meal a day. All three cats really love it. Might be something to consider trying with the kittens to make a transition to raw food easier in the future.

 

[FirstRescue]

Good to know about the lysine. I'm using Viralys. What brand is working for you?

I got them a bag of commercial frozen rabbit (VitalEssentials) and tried a few nuggets of it this morning with their normal food. They ate that with no problem. I also gave them a little raw chicken to try a few weeks ago, and they loved it. The tiny bit of raw chicken liver might have been too much, though. They seem to have constant loose stools/diarrhea since I adopted them, and it's hard to know if the raw food causes it, or if it's other changes to their diet, or the famciclovir. I've gradually got them completely off the dry Science diet, and they received some odd foods (sardine, treats, etc) when I was giving them famciclovir last week and trying to get them to eat. Such delicate tummies.

It's great to hear how other pet guardians have been able to control or minimize the viral outbreaks.

 

[NewYork1303]

Good to know about the lysine. I'm using Viralys. What brand is working for you?

I got them a bag of commercial frozen rabbit (VitalEssentials) and tried a few nuggets of it this morning with their normal food. They ate that with no problem. I also gave them a little raw chicken to try a few weeks ago, and they loved it. The tiny bit of raw chicken liver might have been too much, though. They seem to have constant loose stools/diarrhea since I adopted them, and it's hard to know if the raw food causes it, or if it's other changes to their diet, or the famciclovir. I've gradually got them completely off the dry Science diet, and they received some odd foods (sardine, treats, etc) when I was giving them famciclovir last week and trying to get them to eat. Such delicate tummies.

It's great to hear how other pet guardians have been able to control or minimize the viral outbreaks.

We use Viralysis as well. The gel kind that smells like pancake syrup.

He does get little mouth sores at times, but they usually go away pretty fast. We just notice them when we brush his teeth.

 

[FirstRescue]

Oh, heavens. Teeth brushing! Haven't gone there yet, but I prolly should while they're young. Back to youtube :-)

 

[stephanietx]

This is the brand of Lysine we use. I'm usually able to use a coupon on buy it when it's Buy One Get One half off. One heaping 1/4 teaspoon equals 500mg. I add it to wet food with water added. I have 5 cats and all get it even though only one has herpes. One jar lasts us about 3 months.

Vitacost L-Lysine Powder -- 435 mg - 1 lb (454 g) - Vitacost

 

[FirstRescue]

That's great to know. Coupons always welcome.

 

[dustydiamond1]

Famciclovir is given to help keep herpes symptoms at bay. I have a herpes kitty who was diagnosed 10 years ago and she also has terrible airborne allergies. She also had calicivirus as a kitten when we adopted her at 7 mos of age. Medication helped clear up the calici, but the herpes symptoms are life-long and only manageable, not curable. There is a test that can be run on any nasal discharge to accurately diagnose herpes if you really want confirmation, the real PCR URD test. It also tests for other upper respiratory diseases such as chlamydia.

One thing you want to try to avoid with herpes kitties is steroids. Steroids compromise the immune system and make it easier for kitties to get sick. Also, no more boosters until the kitties are completely healthy and not showing any active signs of sneezing or weepy eyes. It's even possible that the FCVRP shot is aggravating things and making the symptoms worse. It's the "R" part in that combo vaccine that is hard on kitties with upper respiratory/herpes symptoms.

What we did to help her was switch her to a grain-free diet. Grain has a compound in it called arginine. Arginine helps the herpes virus replicate which increases the symptoms in a cat. We also started giving her L-Lysine twice a day. We started her off at 250mg 2x a day because she was so little. It's important to dose twice a day because lysine is an amino acid and is eliminated when your kitty urinates. Lysine helps stop the replication of the herpes virus. Lysine dissolves easily in water, so we add a bit of water to wet food and mix in the lysine. It can take up to a month to see any benefits from Lysine, so if you try this, be patient. We purchase the 1 pound powdered variety online, but you can get capsules and open them up and sprinkle on food or you can crush pills and mix into wet food.

The second thing we did was add a daily supplement to her food to get her as healthy as possible. We give her Missing Link twice a day in wet food. This helps her overall health. The healthier you can get a kitty, the better they will be able to fight off flare ups.

Reduce stress. Moving to a new home is very stressful for a kitty. New sights, new smells, new people, new routine, new sounds, new everything. Kitties thrive on routine and that helps them remain calm. Establish a routine. Feed at the same time daily, go to bed at the same time, play sessions at the same time. You might also want to invest in some Feliway diffusers to help de-stress your home. When it's time to change my diffuser, my girl starts sneezing excessively. The diffusers don't work for everyone, but it's worth a shot to try them.

We also give our kitty eye drops in her nose. We have also used them in her eyes to clear up conjunctivitis. We use Gentamicin or Tobramicin drops to help clear up any mucous when she is exceptionally snotty and sneezy. This seems to help. You can also try plain saline drops like Little Remedies Little Noses drops. Just one drop in each nostril 2-3 times a day will help them eliminate any mucous. Steaming in the bathroom will also help with any congestion. What we have recently had a lot of success with is giving my girl nebulizer treatments. This has cut down on her sneezes and sneezing fits tremendously! She will now go several days with no sneezes, which is a vast improvement over snot-flinging sneezing fits many times a day.

I know this is a long read, but I hope it helps you and your kitties.

 

[dustydiamond1]

Thanks so much for the detailed reply! Lots of good info there.

I could get the PCR test just to make sure that no other course of treatment is needed. What medication worked to clear up your kitty's calicivirus symptoms?

On diet, I have them on a grain-free diet of Sheba canned but want to transition them to raw when their tummies get more stable. They already get an L-lysine gel treatment and I plan to continue that forever. The Missing Link supplements look interesting. I imagine the garlic ingredient is low enough that it's not harmful to kitties but might have some beneficial effects against hostile organisms?

I made a batch of plain chicken bone broth (chx+water only) yesterday, and add a tbsp of that to their meal to get more liquid in them and maybe get the chicken soup effect, who knows?

I'll definitely avoid steroids. I'm no fan of anti-inflammatories for acute conditions for exactly the reason you state: why suppress the immune system when the kitties (and people) need it most? I should have researched the booster vaccine. The rescue told me they needed the shots and had already scheduled it with the vet, so I went along and got the vaccines. Probably should have waited, as you said.

I need to get the routine down better, and thanks for that reminder about stress. I just started some separate play sessions to help picked-on Pixel relax without watching out for Cleo to barrel in and take over. In our first session, Pixel nervously watched the closed door for a while, then settled into play while purring, so the bullying was probably worse than I thought. I'll give the Feliway a shot in the two rooms we're in the most and see if Cleo calms down. (The rescue said they were "bonded" but looks like not so much, sadly.) Do you use the Feliway multicat formula or the original formula?

I'll give the plain saline drops and bathroom steams a try for congestion. If it looks like they need a nebulizer, did you make a homemade box for that? Saw several on youtube.

Thanks for taking the time to write!

 

[dustydiamond1]

How are they doing?

 

[FirstRescue]

Update: it's been slow, but they are both doing better. Now that they're off the famciclovir, they're back to being hungry, playful kittens, and I think that's the most important thing right now.

Pixel has gained a little weight, finally (5 months old, now at 3.9 lbs). Her eyes look a lot better in the past few days. They've almost stopped weeping, and she no longer has pink eyelids. She is still very congested, though. Cleo's eye sockets are still a little weepy, but she's less congested. They still like waking me up with sneezes (oh joy!)

I've been giving them Missing Link supplement along with Viralys. They still get canned Sheba with chicken bone broth, and I'm starting to give them more raw food.

I also got some Feliway multicat. Now when Cleo play-attacks, there are far fewer sessions where Pixel runs off hissing or wailing. Could be due to her weight gain, the Feliway, or just that Pixel is feeling better. She's no longer stiff and limping from the vaccination (which now seems like a real mistake on my part for letting the vet recommend it). Pixel even initiates some play with Cleo, which is new. They think playing tag under the bed is the best game ever. And Cleo has started to do some "forced grooming" of Pixel, interspersed with neck bites and bunny kicks. They can sometimes share the bed for a nap without a fight. This all seems like good progress.

Thanks for all the advice! They're headed in the right direction now. No plans to restart the famciclovir unless they go really downhill.

I posted a video of Cleo deciding that enough was enough, and that she needed to explore the forbidden living room. Sometimes it's hard to believe she's blind.

 

[dustydiamond1]

I c

Update: it's been slow, but they are both doing better. Now that they're off the famciclovir, they're back to being hungry, playful kittens, and I think that's the most important thing right now.

Pixel has gained a little weight, finally (5 months old, now at 3.9 lbs). Her eyes look a lot better in the past few days. They've almost stopped weeping, and she no longer has pink eyelids. She is still very congested, though. Cleo's eye sockets are still a little weepy, but she's less congested. They still like waking me up with sneezes (oh joy!)

I've been giving them Missing Link supplement along with Viralys. They still get canned Sheba with chicken bone broth, and I'm starting to give them more raw food.

I also got some Feliway multicat. Now when Cleo play-attacks, there are far fewer sessions where Pixel runs off hissing or wailing. Could be due to her weight gain, the Feliway, or just that Pixel is feeling better. She's no longer stiff and limping from the vaccination (which now seems like a real mistake on my part for letting the vet recommend it). Pixel even initiates some play with Cleo, which is new. They think playing tag under the bed is the best game ever. And Cleo has started to do some "forced grooming" of Pixel, interspersed with neck bites and bunny kicks. They can sometimes share the bed for a nap without a fight. This all seems like good progress.

Thanks for all the advice! They're headed in the right direction now. No plans to restart the famciclovir unless they go really downhill.

I posted a video of Cleo deciding that enough was enough, and that she needed to explore the forbidden living room. Sometimes it's hard to believe she's blind.

I couldn't get it to load on youtube.

 

[FirstRescue]

I think the video link is working now (at least it works for me.) Maybe it took Youtube a while to make it public?

If it turns out that I need to edit that link, I will, but I couldn't find how editing is done.

 

[Antonio65]

1. Cleo, 6 months old, blind (enucleated).

2. Pixel, 5 months old, scrawny, needs to gain weight.

Not much to say to help you, I'd just want to highlight that you rescued two kitties in such conditions that not many people in the world would have adopted.
My huge thank you for what you did!!!

 

[cheeser]

In addition to what everyone else has already recommended, we also started our cat with herpes on lactoferrin after reading through this thread and discussing it with our vet, and we temporarily increase the dosage of that and the L-lysine during flare-ups. He also recommended supplements such as Zylkene or calming treats to help manage stress, in addition to the Feliway diffusers.

The nice thing about lactoferrin and Zylkene, as well as many other supplements, is that you can open the capsules and mix the powder in with your cat's food, instead of having to pill a less than enthusiastic participant. In our case, we discovered that mixing them with baby food worked much better than regular food because then he thinks he's getting a special treat.