Kittens Having Kittens.

[PepperandOliver]

I have a 20 week old male tabby kitten and a 18 week old female tabby kitten. They are indoor cats. We want them to have a litter at some point. It is getting into winter and I'm concerned that as soon as the spring/summer comes, they be over 4 months and Ollie could get her pregnant. I don't want to neuter them, because want to have a litter at some point. Just not so young. I've read various forums and advice website and the general consensus is don't let a kitten have kittens. I also read another comment where they said kittens have been having kittens since the beginning of time. Which is a fair comment. If they're bodies are physically capable, then that is because they are capable?

There could always be complications with any litter, regardless of age. But because they are so young it will always attributed to their age??

Anyway my actual query is how do we stop them having a litter a young age, with out getting them neutered and not keeping them apart all the time when were out. We got Ollie because we wanted Pepper to have company when we were out the house and also liked the idea of them having a litter at some point. Any advice would be great please?

 

[Kieka]

I would personally get them spayed and neutered. I am against any purposeful breeding outside of a purebred breeding program (which even then should be directed towards improving and refining the specific breed). The reason why I am against it is because there are over 4 million animals killed every year in shelters for lack of a good home. That doesn't count the millions who die abandoned on the street or are killed outright with malice or neglect in bad homes. Even if you can 100% ensure that every kitten will find a good home for their entire life span that is taking away homes that the already homeless kittens could have gone into. If you really want the experience of having kittens and seeing the cycle of life I would strongly urge you to talk with your local shelter to foster a pregnant mom and her kittens. That way you get to have newborn kittens in your home and help with the overpopulation problem at the same time. If you need to see the problem, visit a local shelter and ask how many kittens they put down this last kitten season or follow a local rescue group on social media.

That said, if you are absolutely set on having kittens with your kittens, you do need to wait until they are 18 months old at the very least. Saying that she is capable of having kittens her first heat so it is safe for her to is like saying a 12 year old girl who has had her first period is ready to marry and have kids (not to be harsh). The first few heats are setting her body up and changing both the chemical makeup and slight physical changes so that when she has finished maturing she will then be physically and mentally ready. But that first year or so is time for the body to adjust/change with the changing hormones but you have to have the hormones start for those changes to happen.

It is safer and healthier for them to not have kittens until they are older. In the mean time, you would need to ensure your home is 100% cat proof so that your girl can't escape when she is in heat and your boy can't get out when he hears an outdoor female in heat. You will also need to set up two separate areas and make sure everyone in your family is 100% on board with not letting the two cats interact for even a moment when your girl is in heat. It would only take a single moment for her to get pregnant so the best way to prevent that until she is old enough is to not let them even see each other at that point. They will both likely cause damage trying to get to each other or escape so it needs to probably be one in one bedroom, the other in another, and some closed doors between them so that if one does slip through they can't get straight to the other. You want to separate them the moment you even think she might be in heat, which if you live in a warmer area could be quite frequent.

Waiting to neuter your boy also runs the risk of him starting to spray which may not stop after he is neutered. You are also increasing both of their chances for cancer and health problems that can be prevented by spaying/neutering. It is a small increase but an increase none the less. Your cats will loose nothing by never having kittens and gain nothing from having them. The experience of having kittens won't make your female more of a female or awaken a motherly instinct if she isn't already a protective or nurturing cat. It won't do anything emotionally or mentally for either of the cats as a benefit. It won't make you male more manly to impregnate her and you will likely have to separate them once the kittens are born. It will add to the overpopulation. It will create a health risk for your female. It will create a cost risk for you (if she gets sick, if there is problem with the labor it could be a few thousand dollars, added costs of food and proper vet care, etc). All I can see are negatives but if there is some positive for you then I will take your word for it.

 

[Willowy]

Cats, in nature, breed quickly and die young. They sacrifice their long-term health to propagate the species. So, yes, their bodies are made for that but we generally don't want our pets to die young. So that's why it's better to wait until a pet female is older before allowing her to have a litter (if at all).

And since mature female cats can always get pregnant (not just when they're in active heat), you would need to keep them separated at all times. Most breeders keep their studs in a separate enclosure with a neutered male or spayed female for company.

If they do have a litter, do you plan on keeping all the kittens? If not, please know that it's extremely difficult to find good homes for kittens, especially those who are plain dark colors like solid black and tabby, so you might end up keeping them anyway.

Do you have a plan to dealing with the male's tomcat behavior? That's a major reason for male cats to be dumped at shelters, and I'd hate for that to happen in this case. A mature unneutered male cat is not often a pleasant housepet.

 

[PepperandOliver]

Your first paragraph details the over population of cats. I live in Glasgow, Scotland. There are always kittens for sale on various websites, but equally they are always sold buy the time I call a few hours after they posts has went up. They are very popular in this area, and surrounding. Regardless of their coat or breed. I accept that there are many that are homeless and in shelters, which is very sad and unnecessary I'll concede. Obviously you can't be sure that your actually giving the kitten to a responsible owner if it's through posting online and I would urge anyone I gave a kitten to if there were problems to ensure they didn't become homeless or mistreated and would check up occasionally tactfully, however I am adapt to reading people very quickly which is a skill I've developed through various experiences.

I feel the reason it is inappropriate for a young girl to have a child is because she is still a girl herself and wouldn't be able to look after a child. Emotionally and practically. Although there are many communities in the world who have children at young ages and they been around since the beginning of recorded history, although some may be slightly more primitive than western society. I'm not suggesting that I agree I'm just discussing the point you made. The kittens would not be looking after the kittens for any significant time with out us monitoring and ultimately they would be passed on to responsible owners. Although instinctively, they would be able to take care of their young. It's not as complicated as human beings. I accept the fact that cats in the wild breed young and die young and that isn't what we would want for our pets, but is that a social construction too? As humans we want to live as long as we can, who say's they don't want to breed more and have a shorter life span. That is what they would do if they had the choice. In my opinion we are happier if we have free will and maslow's hierarchy of needs probably applies here. So whats to say they wouldn't be as happy to do what they naturally to do? With some guidance.. they would be neutered after their first litter.

To say that neither of these kittens/cats will benefit emotionally from having a litter. I categorically disagree. Yes they would likely never be effected if they never had a litter because they probably don't have enough insightful thought to actually long for parenthood. But I can't accept the fact that neither of them would benefit emotionally from having a litter.

These comments obviously share some wisdom and experience in looking after kittens/ cats. But empathizing with the cat, understanding that it is a living breathing animal with mind of their own. To make someone happy, you give them what they want and need. Why wouldn't you apply the same ideal to a your pet?

None the less I take on board your comments and appreciate your response. I will do my best to ensure that they are older before we let them have a litter. An thanks for the heads up about male tomcat behavior. I had no idea, I knew about spraying but would just take things as they come. But this is my first male cat, I've had one female cat before these two. So I obviously have a bit of reading to do.

 

[Willowy]

Although instinctively, they would be able to take care of their young. It's not as complicated as human beings.

Not necessarily. In wild conditions, often a female will lose her first litter due to her inexperience. If with a caring owner, the owner has to bottle-feed them. It's a possibility to prepare for anyway.

who say's they don't want to breed more and have a shorter life span. That is what they would do if they had the choice

Hmm, there's a philosophical discussion. Would they? I've seen a few females who have had litters who seemed quite relieved when they figured out they weren't going into heat anymore. And the actual mating act isn't very pleasant for the female.

One of my mom's cats, in particular, really seemed more at ease once she figured that out. She had been a trailer park cat and had had "truckloads" of kittens, according to the vet who spayed her. When spring came around she got very prickly with our male and her own son that we kept, she'd swipe and growl at them when they walked past, etc. And as the days went on it seemed to me that she noticed that she wasn't going into heat and gradually got more and more relaxed when she figured out there would be no more tomcats or kittens. She was always a cheerful kitty after that. I know a lot of people will say a cat can't understand that but that's what it looked like to me.

Human women in primitive cultures will have lots of babies and seem contented in that role, but if/when birth control is offered, many do take advantage of it. If cats were able to communicate their choices to us, it's possible they would choose the same.

Also, if we let cats choose for themselves I'm sure most of them wouldn't choose to stay inside .

But I can't accept the fact that neither of them would benefit emotionally from having a litter.

The male wouldn't, definitely, lol. Tomcats are generally not doting daddies. Females do seem contented when nursing their litters but that might just be the oxytocin. They sure seem glad to be rid of them once they're 10-12 weeks old! I have females who have had litters and females who never did and those who had litters don't seem to be especially benefitted by it. I suppose "emotional benefits" are an abstract concept anyway so it's hard to say one way or the other.

 

[mani]

MOD NOTE:
Whilst TCS members are happy to offer advice on this subject, it's important to note that TCS is a pro spay and neuter site, as laid out in our Forum Rules.
3. This is a pro-spay-and-neuter website. Please make sure to spay and neuter your cats. Unless you are a professional breeder and your cat is part of a professional breeding program, please educate yourself to the importance of spaying and neutering by the time your cat is 4-6 months old. If you take care of a feral colony, please make sure to do so responsibly by practicing TNR (Trap, Neuter, Release) protocols within the colony. Read More Here.

 

[Yanaka]

What a terrible and selfish idea. I'm so happy to forget 90% of the time that people purposefully breed their cats for no reason and think their pets are happy about it. This makes me so sad and angry at the same time.

 

[rubysmama]

Before you decide to let your female cat get pregnant, ensure you read some posts on the Pregnant Cats and Kitten Care forum. There you can follow threads about cat pregnancies.

Many times the outcome is perfect. The mom has a problem free delivery, she takes over care of the kittens immediately and has enough milk to feed them, and the kittens grow up and get adopted out to good homes.

But too often, there are posts from people seeking guidance. Sometimes a female cat has as many as 8 kittens, which can be too much for her to handle, and the human parents have to jump in and supplement feeding the kittens - including the middle of the night, for the first weeks. Sometimes, like in human pregnancies, things go wrong and the human parent has to help birth a kitten that gets stuck in the birth canal. If the kitten is stuck too long, it will die. Sometimes the female cat needs to be rushed to an emergency vet for an expensive c-section.

Those are just a few problems I've read about while a member of this site.

So please do your research before deciding to let your kittens become parents. And start putting away some money, just in case an emergency was to occur.

 

[Blakeney Green]

Although instinctively, they would be able to take care of their young.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the feeling from this statement that you don't have much kitten experience?

Cats may take care of their kittens. They also may abandon, neglect, kill, and/or eat them. It's a crapshoot. Your female may turn out to be an awesome mom, but she very well may not. If you go through with this, you need to be prepared for the fact that she or the male may not decide to let them live, and you'll never really know why.

To make someone happy, you give them what they want and need. Why wouldn't you apply the same ideal to a your pet?

Cats aren't able to make responsible decisions about what is best for them. That's why they need us to look after them. It's sort of like a toddler - you may make a toddler happy in the short-term by giving them everything they want, but the parent needs to take a longer view. Likewise simply gratifying a cat's every instinct is not necessarily a responsible choice for their long-term well-being and care.

 

[ashade1]

As it was mentioned on here, this site is a Pro Spay/Neuter site. Many of us have had to deal with tons of abandoned, neglected, and unwanted cats and kittens that are suffering just because of the negligence of the owners to spay and neuter their cats. I know you say that you don't have a cat overpopulation problem, but I find it a little hard to believe. I would encourage you to volunteer at a local shelter or rescue group. I am sure these cats are a bigger problem than you realize. A lot of people are pretty blind to just how big the problem is until they are being contacted about 4 litters of kittens and you are already struggling to find homes for the 25 that you took in earlier that summer. Not to mention all of the health risks you are looking at by not spaying and neutering, but many of those were mentioned here. As well as the behavioral benefits.
I do wish you would reconsider.

 

[Katie M]

I adopted a kitten from a shelter just yesterday, although she can't come home until she's been spayed. She's spent most of her short life in that shelter.

It is so vital that mixed-breeds and pet-quality purebred cats be prevented from breeding. She won't be sad about missing out on motherhood. My other cat has never desired fatherhood. They'll both enjoy greater health too.

 

[Ashouldnt]

As it was mentioned on here, this site is a Pro Spay/Neuter site. Many of us have had to deal with tons of abandoned, neglected, and unwanted cats and kittens that are suffering just because of the negligence of the owners to spay and neuter their cats. I know you say that you don't have a cat overpopulation problem, but I find it a little hard to believe. I would encourage you to volunteer at a local shelter or rescue group. I am sure these cats are a bigger problem than you realize. A lot of people are pretty blind to just how big the problem is until they are being contacted about 4 litters of kittens and you are already struggling to find homes for the 25 that you took in earlier that summer. Not to mention all of the health risks you are looking at by not spaying and neutering, but many of those were mentioned here. As well as the behavioral benefits.
I do wish you would reconsider.

I agree. I didn’t think my area had an overpopulation problem until I started volunteering at my local shelter and they were had completely full foster homes and five other litters in the shelter.

 

[Yanaka]

Those arguments don’t work, though. People think that “their” kittens wouldn’t end up there, and don’t see the correlation between their choice and how it affects shelters staying full longer.

I will only add that your cats don’t care about having litters. It’s only hormones and instinct if they’re not spayed. We humans can want kids without hormones dictating us to do so, but not animals.

 

[ReallySleepy]

It is so vital that mixed-breeds and pet-quality purebred cats be prevented from breeding.

Is it? I wonder if you realize what you are saying here. We can agree that most cats should be prevented from breeding, but it does not follow that only the purest purebreds should be allowed to exist, which would be the consequence of what you are saying.

Terms like "mixed breed" and "purebred" make sense when applied to dogs, which do come in distinct breeds. They are mostly misleading when applied to cats.

 

[Yanaka]

Is it? I wonder if you realize what you are saying here. We can agree that most cats should be prevented from breeding, but it does not follow that only the purest purebreds should be allowed to exist, which would be the consequence of what you are saying.

Terms like "mixed breed" and "purebred" make sense when applied to dogs, which do come in distinct breeds. They are mostly misleading when applied to cats.

Well... There is no reason to breed a cat except if it's part of a purebred program. Even there I quite disagree, but it's relatively justified. And strays/mixed cats will never disappear... Thanks to careless and unrealizing humans

 

[Katie M]

Is it? I wonder if you realize what you are saying here. We can agree that most cats should be prevented from breeding, but it does not follow that only the purest purebreds should be allowed to exist, which would be the consequence of what you are saying.

Terms like "mixed breed" and "purebred" make sense when applied to dogs, which do come in distinct breeds. They are mostly misleading when applied to cats.

Misleading? There are distinct breeds, and none of my cats have belonged to any.

 

[Willowy]

Another interesting philosophical discussion. I, for one, wouldn't like it if only purebred cats were available. I think humans do a poor job of breeding cats; I much prefer natural selection. But I also don't want unwanted cats born (and, even if they're wanted at birth this doesn't mean anybody will want them later). So it's a fine line. But cats are very very good at getting pregnant at a young age without any prior warning so I don't think we'll run out of cats anytime soon.

To maintain current population, with an average litter size of 4, that means 50% of female cats could have one litter before being spayed. So there is room for the occasional pet litter. But, surveys have shown that 70% of pet cats in the US have had at least one litter, and the average number of litters among those was 3 :/. So that's just way too many.

 

[Blakeney Green]

Although instinctively, they would be able to take care of their young.

Just wanted to mention one more thing about what I bolded.

You seem to have a fantasy of your two kittens settling down like some sort of happy human family and raising their offspring cooperatively, but cats don't do that. They just don't. Their social order doesn't work that way.

If all goes well, the female will care for the kittens. (If it doesn't, you may end up having to bottle feed the kittens, or they will die or one of the parents will kill them.) The male will not be a caretaker. Cats do not form bonded parenting pairs, and fathers do not take care of the offspring.

Based on your description of what you think is going to happen, your picture of how this is going to work is very rosy. Feline reproduction is a lot messier and at times more brutal than what you seem to be picturing. I really hope you don't have to find this out the hard way, because you seem to be setting yourself up for a harsh reality check, unfortunately.

 

[talkingpeanut]

Just wanted to mention one more thing about what I bolded.

You seem to have a fantasy of your two kittens settling down like some sort of happy human family and raising their offspring cooperatively, but cats don't do that. They just don't. Their social order doesn't work that way.

If all goes well, the female will care for the kittens. (If it doesn't, you may end up having to bottle feed the kittens, or they will die or one of the parents will kill them.) The male will not be a caretaker. Cats do not form bonded parenting pairs, and fathers do not take care of the offspring.

Based on your description of what you think is going to happen, your picture of how this is going to work is very rosy. Feline reproduction is a lot messier and at times more brutal than what you seem to be picturing. I really hope you don't have to find this out the hard way, because you seem to be setting yourself up for a harsh reality check, unfortunately.

Yes, exactly. The female could also go into heat within a week of delivery, ignore the babies, and get pregnant again. This is... unwise at best.

 

[Blakeney Green]

Yeah. Of all the litters I have seen in person in the past couple of months, off the top of my head I can't think of one where all the kittens survived and were raised to weaning by the same mother cat who gave birth to them. Some of that is the stress of a shelter environment, but it's not like the worst case scenarios are rare or you can assume they won't happen to you.

If you are considering the "emotional benefit" your cats are supposedly going to get out of this, you have to consider the potential for them experiencing trauma, too.