Is this kitten play too rough/aggressive?

[lucicat]

I'm having trouble downloading a video. . .but I'm hoping you can see it through this link:
New video by Lucinda Frachtenberg

I have been introducing two kittens, resident kitten is 5 months old and new kitten is 10weeks old. (I have another thread here about this.) Could someone please watch this video (the second one is better if there are two showing) and tell me if you think this "play" is concerning/too aggressive or if it's normal kitten play? I'm very concerned that the older kitten is going to hurt the younger. They've just started having face-to-face meetings and they have literally never had any time together where they weren't eating or doing this. . .they've never ignored each other or relaxed with each other.

Thank you!!!

 

[cat nap]

Hi lucicat ...
the video I see, is one of the older cat playing with the younger cat, under the ottomon.
58 seconds long.
It's definitely play. Not very aggressive, due to the ear position.
But I'm wondering why you think it is aggressive.
Does the little guy hide all the time? Does he meow a lot?
Does the older guy bite, always?

They are adorable cats. What are their names?

 

[lucicat]

Hi lucicat ...
the video I see, is one of the older cat playing with the younger cat, under the ottomon.
58 seconds long.
It's definitely play. Not very aggressive, due to the ear position.
But I'm wondering why you think it is aggressive.
Does the little guy hide all the time? Does he meow a lot?
Does the older guy bite, always?

I'm mostly nervous. . .the little one usually hides or is on the defense. The older kitten may be too rough. . .the younger had a bit of bleeding after this play session from getting scratched or bitten. The younger definitely hisses and growls and even yelps occasionally. . .the older kitten is quiet. I'm not used to cat play and don't know what's too rough. . .it all looks pretty violent to me! And I got really scared that the younger got a bit hurt tonight (although he seems just fine).

All of their time together (very limited) has been this intense. . .I keep waiting for them to calm down . . .but maybe that'sjust kitten energy.

 

[cat nap]

Yes, if the older kitten is causing the younger one to bleed, ...then it is too rough.
Usually, there will be some rough play, ...but by the little one hissing, and yelping, then the older one should be learning to back off.
Because the little one is still engaging, and reaching out to the older one, then it looks okay.

However, when it turns to one bleeding, then you might have to intervene.
Especially, if the older one does not stop, and causes injury.
You might have to put the older one in a time-out.

What are their names? And do they listen to you, if you clap your hands?
Can you distract them, from playing, by throwing a cat toy, or towel, their way.

 

[ArtNJ]

I agree with everything cat nap said, but would note that accidents do happen, particularly if big cat doesn't have nails trimmed.

Key point about the video is that the small cat is playing. Its not unusual for an over enthusiastic big cat to make a little one squeal/run now and then. Its normally like a big bro giving little bro an indian sunburn or head noogie. They don't like it. Maybe it hurts a little. But it doesn't do damage, and doesn't deter little bro from wanting to play with big bro. Not too much you can do about it; cant teach a big cat to play nice. Can distract big cat to help if its too much sometimes, but it won't teach him much. So you have to trust what the kitten is telling you; that on balance, they like the big cat and arent afraid, except when big cat gets too rough.

At the moment, I'm blessed. My four year old only plays with our new kitten like 15 minutes a day, chase and vigorous wrestling, but is considerate and has never made the kitten squeal. I wish they would play more, but they play so nicely when they do interact. I think this is probably the less common scenario. Considerate is not normally a cat trait. Sorry you haven't been as lucky, but its normal.

Trim the nails and check little cat for wounds periodically. Its possible that there is a problem here, just not especially likely from what you've told us.

 

[lucicat]

Yes, if the older kitten is causing the younger one to bleed, ...then it is too rough.
Usually, there will be some rough play, ...but by the little one hissing, and yelping, then the older one should be learning to back off.
Because the little one is still engaging, and reaching out to the older one, then it looks okay.

However, when it turns to one bleeding, then you might have to intervene.
Especially, if the older one does not stop, and causes injury.
You might have to put the older one in a time-out.

What are their names? And do they listen to you, if you clap your hands?
Can you distract them, from playing, by throwing a cat toy, or towel, their way.

Sati (female) is the older kitten, the tortie and Ash is the grey and white little guy. He’s only been with us for ten days.
Sati will respond if I call her name, Ash not so much yet although he is easily distracted by toys.

My thought is that sati has always been a high energy kitten, and pretty tough with us with biting and such during play. I think she wasn’t socialized well (shelter kitty so I have no idea her history). So I do think they are playing, but she is just pretty rough snd he’s much smaller. Won’t she be surprised in a few months when he’s bigger!

 

[cat nap]

Hahaha...yes, definitely...while watching the video, I thought...well when he gets bigger, the playfight will be fair.
No, but seriously, the advice given above, from A ArtNJ , about trimming her nails will help, if she constantly scratches him.

Those are beautiful names.
You may have to tire Sati out with some individual play, beforehand, like chasing ping pong balls or scrunched up paper.
And if she didn't learn bite-inhibition, then it might be harder for her to understand, that her bites are too strong.
But since Ash is around, and Sati is responding to stopping when he yelps, then hopefully she will learn very fast.

 

[cat nap]

This may help with uploading videos, to your posts.
I'd love to see more kitten videos.
How To Upload And Add Videos To Your Posts

 

[lucicat]

Hahaha...yes, definitely...while watching the video, I thought...well when he gets bigger, the playfight will be fair.
No, but seriously, the advice given above, from A ArtNJ , about trimming her nails will help, if she constantly scratches him.

Those are beautiful names.
You may have to tire Sati out with some individual play, beforehand, like chasing ping pong balls or scrunched up paper.
And if she didn't learn bite-inhibition, then it might be harder for her to understand, that her bites are too strong.
But since Ash is around, and Sati is responding to stopping when he yelps, then hopefully she will learn very fast.

They played together (supervised by me) for 2 hours this morning!!!!! (the longest they have been together before now was 15 min). And no one got hurt! phew. . .I feel so much better. And I could definitely see that while she's bigger and often the pouncer, that when she would lay down to take a break, HE would creep out and try to pounce her!!! So it really did seem like play and he was certainly into it. . .she's just not good about the bite inhibition as you say (we noticed that from the beginning with her). But the fact that they were together for so long and he didn't get hurt tells me they are learning to be together.

They still haven't gotten to the point of being bored by each other. ha. There is pretty much never more than 5 seconds when they are together that they aren't wrestling/chasing/swatting/pouncing. I guess that's kitten energy for ya

 

[cat nap]

Oh, that is and excellent update!
Yes, as long as Ash goes back to play, and pounce, then he definitely is enjoying the interactions.
(You'll see in the future, that while you may think that one cat is the initiator, or more aggressive...it will turn out...that it was the other one, entirely. They will take turns...and try to make it look like it was the other one's fault.)

"being bored by each other"...Ha, ha, ha....I don't think you'll see that for a long while.
I can't remember when cats mellow out.
(Mine are 4 years old now, and siblings, but still end up chasing, fighting, wrestling and rolling. Though my smaller female, does not appreciate it that much, she still gets her bigger brother back, by swatting and running away. I think it's payback for something he's done...but who knows.)

 

[cat nap]

They still haven't gotten to the point of being bored by each other. ha. There is pretty much never more than 5 seconds when they are together that they aren't wrestling/chasing/swatting/pouncing. I guess that's kitten energy for ya

They grow up so fast.
Just remember to enjoy every minute, take many photos and videos.
The best part is watching the little changes to body language, or the quirkiness that each cat does.

Yes, it is indeed "kitten energy". Non-stop...full-out...until they are sleeping.

 

[lucicat]

They grow up so fast.
Just remember to enjoy every minute, take many photos and videos.
The best part is watching the little changes to body language, or the quirkiness that each cat does.

Yes, it is indeed "kitten energy". Non-stop...full-out...until they are sleeping.

I know I already can see that Sati has changed so much since we got her!! From 2 and half to 6 and half pounds since late August! Plus just so much change in her behaviors as she settled into knowing our house and routine. . .he's been doing things (like playing with curtains) that she used to do but has since stopped doing! Now I only fear they will never want our company bc they will just be playing with each other all day!!!

Next step will be how to know when we can leave them alone together. . .but for now I'll keep putting Ash in the kitten room when we are gone or asleep.

 

[cat nap]

he's been doing things (like playing with curtains) that she used to do but has since stopped doing! Now I only fear they will never want our company bc they will just be playing with each other all day!!!

Oops. I forgot about the 'curtain thing'. And other such 'joys' of kittenhood...ummm...exploration-destruction.

Noo....they will still want your company. Eventually.
Around meal time, and when they get tired-out.
It's just that now, they have all this great adventure, and focus of playing, learning, and basically taking over the house.

They will always love their humans.
And will always play with you, with long, wide strings, wand toys, and such.
Plus, the bonus is...that they will be both getting exercise, stimulation, and not bothering you so much.
They won't have time to be bored, at all.

Next step will be how to know when we can leave them alone together. . .but for now I'll keep putting Ash in the kitten room when we are gone or asleep.

That is a hard question. Because of the size difference...I would wait a little longer.
And keep watching how they play.
But it will be very soon, since I don't think that they will want to be apart for much longer.

If you can make escape routes for little Ash, or places that he can only hide and be safe, then that will help...but I know that would be difficult.
I think that very soon, they will sleep by each other, and rest,...and then you will know that they'll be okay alone.

Mostly, kittens work out their dynamics on their own, and establish their own rules.
It's really fun to watch. (except for the climbing the curtain part. lol.)

 

[lucicat]

Things have been going well! more play dates have been happening and they seem better and better.

I had bought a new litter box for down stairs now that there are two of them. I showed it to them this morning but no one had used it yet. This afternoon they both went and peed in it for the first time. . .at the exact same time!!! lol it was hilarious to see two kittens pee in unison both packed into the box. If that ain't bonding I don't know what is!!! hahaha

 

[cat nap]

Lol....Yeah. That would be pretty funny to see.
I hope that the older Sati will be teaching young Ash, proper litterbox etiquette...such as how deep to dig, cover up, shake your paws before exiting. lol.

(You just reminded me of the kittens, when they were smaller...I had to teach the one guy to cover...so I figured I would hold him while his smarter sister went. I do believe he caught on. That, and actually showing him to cover with his own paws.)
(My big guy, Tripp, now...uses one box for urinating and another for defecating. I use understorage clear tote boxes which are about 18 inches by 34inches...which are roomy..but he still likes it separate. He's the only one who does, which I find weird, but whatever.)

 

[cat nap]

Do your kittens do the 'running zoomies'...where they just decide to go about fast running or sprinting, throughout the house or room...for no reason at all?. I loved watching that, except for when they would smash into things.

 

[lucicat]

Do your kittens do the 'running zoomies'...where they just decide to go about fast running or sprinting, throughout the house or room...for no reason at all?. I loved watching that, except for when they would smash into things.

oh gosh yes! the evening especially, the running and the sneak attacks. . .at least now they can do that to each other and not us!! ha

 

[cat nap]

oh gosh yes! the evening especially, the running and the sneak attacks. . .at least now they can do that to each other and not us!! ha

Haha. Yes. I think our cats wait until it's all quiet, and then like to run like a herd of elephants, in the evenings...or after midnight.
For an animal that can walk super stealthily and quiet...they can turn around and make the most noise, too.

(I was curious how you chose the names for your cats. Though, that is a little off-topic.) (Was it their personalities?)

 

[lucicat]

Haha. Yes. I think our cats wait until it's all quiet, and then like to run like a herd of elephants, in the evenings...or after midnight.
For an animal that can walk super stealthily and quiet...they can turn around and make the most noise, too.

(I was curious how you chose the names for your cats. Though, that is a little off-topic.) (Was it their personalities?)

It was more about finding names we could all agree on! ha. I have two elementary aged kids and these are are first family pets and they never agree on anything so names were a challenge! Sati is the name of the Hindu goddess of power. . .seemed fitting and the kids could agree on it. With the new little guy, his foster name was Bobo and I wanted to just shorten it and call him Bo/Beau, but my husband and son didn't like it. So we just looked at a list of nature based names and found one no one objected too. I tend to call him Lil' Dude though.

 

[lucicat]

I agree with everything cat nap said, but would note that accidents do happen, particularly if big cat doesn't have nails trimmed.

Key point about the video is that the small cat is playing. Its not unusual for an over enthusiastic big cat to make a little one squeal/run now and then. Its normally like a big bro giving little bro an indian sunburn or head noogie. They don't like it. Maybe it hurts a little. But it doesn't do damage, and doesn't deter little bro from wanting to play with big bro. Not too much you can do about it; cant teach a big cat to play nice. Can distract big cat to help if its too much sometimes, but it won't teach him much. So you have to trust what the kitten is telling you; that on balance, they like the big cat and arent afraid, except when big cat gets too rough.

At the moment, I'm blessed. My four year old only plays with our new kitten like 15 minutes a day, chase and vigorous wrestling, but is considerate and has never made the kitten squeal. I wish they would play more, but they play so nicely when they do interact. I think this is probably the less common scenario. Considerate is not normally a cat trait. Sorry you haven't been as lucky, but its normal.

Trim the nails and check little cat for wounds periodically. Its possible that there is a problem here, just not especially likely from what you've told us.

Thanks for the reminder!! I realized that Sati's nails are too long and sharp! (She's the older kitty). Seems like I just trimmed them but they grow fast.