Introductions… how many re-starts until it’s no longer effective?

[JocelynJ]

Advice please . This involves my 13 year old cat Linden, male, neutered. A quick timeline: I’ve had Linden since he was 8 weeks old. He came into a household with two other cats. All 3 got along immediately. One cat passed away two years later after Linden arrived, the second one passed away in May 2021. Linden was very bonded with her. In 2011, I adopted a dog, which Linden was very nervous about. I was able to keep the dog downstairs and dog was kennelled at night. Linden was upstairs and had full freedom of house at night. The dog passed away January 2021. Linden hasn’t been overly territorial in his life. He was very respectful of the senior cat and dog’s area.

In July, I adopted Lucy, age 1, spayed. Followed the introduction process, kept separate, site swapped, feeding other side of door, eating in view of each other. I had to reset a few times to get to this stage. The two in one room is the challenge. Linden will hide under the bed or closet. If Lucy gets near, he hisses, growls or moans. Lucy just wants to be Linden’s friend. She’s very curious in him, and will lay on her side near him, not in a threatening way at all. She brings him toy balls. I try to wear her out before she can be in a room with Linden. Linden will not participate in play if she is around. I live alone so I don’t have support of another person on a regular basis to help with play. When I’ve blocked off under the bed and closed closet - Linden gets very agitated. So I opened the space under bed again. These were his safe spots he had when the dog was around. He’s hesitant to go down stairs as he’s nervous Lucy will be there. I’ve tried Feliway diffuser and calming collar. I also tried medication - Linden was a doped up angry cat, so I stopped with the meds.

The two cats are separate when I go to work. One day last week when I got home I let Lucy out of her room, and Linden raced up to her, had a nose to nose moment with no hissing, and then went upstairs to get fed (his normal spot). A few times he’s been able to rest in close proximity to her, albeit with some hissing and growls first. Thought we’re making progress.

However, these past few days he’s gone into full intolerance mode again. Linden also cornered her for the first time and lashed out at her. He’s under the bed, growling, hissing and moaning if she’s in the same room now.

At bedtime, Lucy sleeps in her own room, and Linden acts like his regular pre-Lucy self.

Do I need to reset again? What can I do to get Linden out from under the bed and be comfortable with Lucy in the house?

 

[Remi&RiRi]

Hi, welcome to the Catesite! So it sounds like it's been about a month and a half to two months of this happening. I would say in that aspect it’s been longer than most introductions. I do get what your saying about the reintroductions becoming ineffective. I think letting them get to know each other and then reintroducing them will probably just confuse them and drag out the current situation. Seeing the picture of them being able to so close and the situation you explained, it doesn’t seem like you need to keep separating them. Keeping them separate when your at work and then letting them be together could be making things a little confusing for them. At this stage it is probably okay to let them both have free roam of the house unless they are fighting with each other. Does Lindon lash out at Lucy often or was it just that once? If it’s mostly just hissing and growling here and there your probably fine to let them be together. Lindon is just trying to show her not to mess with him and as long as it's not full blown fighting, she just needs a little time to learn how to act around him and maybe the separating has made it difficult. I had a similar situation with my cats. Did the reintroduction process multiple times and eventually just had to let them be together. They would hiss and growl when seeing each other for the first couple days to a week but then it mostly dissipated and they became tolerant of each other. I would recommend just letting them be unless any fights break out. Lindon is older and Lucy probably will pick up on his social cues soon enough. Lindon hissing/growling is just his way of saying give me my space and totally normal. Also if your scared of any fighting I would recommend trimming their nails if they let you. Then you don’t have to be worried about any injuries. But seeing that picture makes me think that they can definitely get along just as my cats did. Best of luck to you, others may chime in but let us know how things go!
Edit: If your worried about Lindon hiding under the bed all the time there may be some things you can do to build up his confidence. Play with him and after play feed treats or a meal. Give places to go high (cat tree, cat shelving if possible), scent soakers like scratching posts, bedding. Stay calm and confident around them. If you sense tension try to reassure the cat, distract them to focus on food or a toy or you (with loving words, etc).

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. A 13 yo cat could take a long time to acclimate to a newcomer. 2 months is likely not enough time for Linden to be that comfortable with Lucy. I personally think it is probable that you rushed the introductions a bit. The more they were around each other the more bothered Linden became by having to be near Lucy a lot. Lucy is also wanting to be friends with Linden and is much more ready to do so than Linden is at this point. She probably overdid it and he responded accordingly by lashing out. You don't want him to remain fearful and hiding, or lashing out at her again, so you do need to reset a bit in order to allow him to relax. See if you can get any tips from these TCS articles to devise a plan on how best to move forward.
How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction – TheCatSite Articles
How To Introduce A Kitten To An Older Cat – TheCatSite Articles
How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide – TheCatSite Articles

 

[Remi&RiRi]

Choose whatever way works best for you and your cats I agree that 2 months is not a super long time and that he is an older cat but it is totally up to you in regards to what you think your cats respond best to. My cats weren’t responding well to the multiple reintroductions over the 2 plus months. Since it was just hissing we decided to let them work it out and once we did that they just learned to coexist (but as mentioned above, if it's mostly fighting then that won't be the route you take). Most cats don’t become cuddly best friends but as long as they learn to exist without any fights, it’s a win. What they respond best to all just depends on their personality. I know it can be a long exhausting couple of months but from what you explained and seeing the picture it seems like they have a good chance of civilly coexisting!

 

[tarasgirl06]

Advice please . This involves my 13 year old cat Linden, male, neutered. A quick timeline: I’ve had Linden since he was 8 weeks old. He came into a household with two other cats. All 3 got along immediately. One cat passed away two years later after Linden arrived, the second one passed away in May 2021. Linden was very bonded with her. In 2011, I adopted a dog, which Linden was very nervous about. I was able to keep the dog downstairs and dog was kennelled at night. Linden was upstairs and had full freedom of house at night. The dog passed away January 2021. Linden hasn’t been overly territorial in his life. He was very respectful of the senior cat and dog’s area.

In July, I adopted Lucy, age 1, spayed. Followed the introduction process, kept separate, site swapped, feeding other side of door, eating in view of each other. I had to reset a few times to get to this stage. The two in one room is the challenge. Linden will hide under the bed or closet. If Lucy gets near, he hisses, growls or moans. Lucy just wants to be Linden’s friend. She’s very curious in him, and will lay on her side near him, not in a threatening way at all. She brings him toy balls. I try to wear her out before she can be in a room with Linden. Linden will not participate in play if she is around. I live alone so I don’t have support of another person on a regular basis to help with play. When I’ve blocked off under the bed and closed closet - Linden gets very agitated. So I opened the space under bed again. These were his safe spots he had when the dog was around. He’s hesitant to go down stairs as he’s nervous Lucy will be there. I’ve tried Feliway diffuser and calming collar. I also tried medication - Linden was a doped up angry cat, so I stopped with the meds.

The two cats are separate when I go to work. One day last week when I got home I let Lucy out of her room, and Linden raced up to her, had a nose to nose moment with no hissing, and then went upstairs to get fed (his normal spot). A few times he’s been able to rest in close proximity to her, albeit with some hissing and growls first. Thought we’re making progress.

However, these past few days he’s gone into full intolerance mode again. Linden also cornered her for the first time and lashed out at her. He’s under the bed, growling, hissing and moaning if she’s in the same room now.

At bedtime, Lucy sleeps in her own room, and Linden acts like his regular pre-Lucy self.

Do I need to reset again? What can I do to get Linden out from under the bed and be comfortable with Lucy in the house?

Hello J JocelynJ , Linden and Lucy! and welcome to TCS! So far, it sounds like things are really going quite well, considering all of the variables.
A few years ago we adopted Sammi, 14 and previously an "only cat" into our multi-cat family. I gave him the two weeks most experts recommend in his own room with all of the things he needed. I did the introductions as recommended by experts. It took about a year before he and our alpha male, Calo, to co-exist. There were a couple of times I had to use a broom handle to separate them. This is a large house, and there is a lot of furniture *for cats and general-use* all over. Somehow, we all got to the place where things worked. When I adopt, it's for life and unconditional. Though I was exasperated at times when it seemed as if Calo and Sammi would never get along, we rode it out and finally it did. There were no second or third introductions. There were some "time-outs" but they were short-term (minutes or hours).

So what I would say to you is, as long as blood is not being drawn and no one is injured, I would continue as you are, with supervision when they are together. Linden is senior and the man of the house. He needs to assert his dominance, even to the point of rebuffing Lucy's sweet advances. In time, this need should diminish and I predict you will see them curl up together...in time. Love and patience should win the day.

*Boyz Club: beloved angels Calo, Sammi and Samuda*

 

[JocelynJ]

Hi, welcome to the Catesite! So it sounds like it's been about a month and a half to two months of this happening. I would say in that aspect it’s been longer than most introductions. I do get what your saying about the reintroductions becoming ineffective. I think letting them get to know each other and then reintroducing them will probably just confuse them and drag out the current situation. Seeing the picture of them being able to so close and the situation you explained, it doesn’t seem like you need to keep separating them. Keeping them separate when your at work and then letting them be together could be making things a little confusing for them. At this stage it is probably okay to let them both have free roam of the house unless they are fighting with each other. Does Lindon lash out at Lucy often or was it just that once? If it’s mostly just hissing and growling here and there your probably fine to let them be together. Lindon is just trying to show her not to mess with him and as long as it's not full blown fighting, she just needs a little time to learn how to act around him and maybe the separating has made it difficult. I had a similar situation with my cats. Did the reintroduction process multiple times and eventually just had to let them be together. They would hiss and growl when seeing each other for the first couple days to a week but then it mostly dissipated and they became tolerant of each other. I would recommend just letting them be unless any fights break out. Lindon is older and Lucy probably will pick up on his social cues soon enough. Lindon hissing/growling is just his way of saying give me my space and totally normal. Also if your scared of any fighting I would recommend trimming their nails if they let you. Then you don’t have to be worried about any injuries. But seeing that picture makes me think that they can definitely get along just as my cats did. Best of luck to you, others may chime in but let us know how things go!
Edit: If your worried about Lindon hiding under the bed all the time there may be some things you can do to build up his confidence. Play with him and after play feed treats or a meal. Give places to go high (cat tree, cat shelving if possible), scent soakers like scratching posts, bedding. Stay calm and confident around them. If you sense tension try to reassure the cat, distract them to focus on food or a toy or you (with loving words, etc).

Thank you for the advice. I‘ve been leaning in that direction to just let them be. I have the weekend to give it a good try with no separation. I just got home and he did nose to nose again, him approaching her, then walked away with no sound. Then Linden flipped out because she followed him.

 

[JocelynJ]

Hello J JocelynJ , Linden and Lucy! and welcome to TCS! So far, it sounds like things are really going quite well, considering all of the variables.
A few years ago we adopted Sammi, 14 and previously an "only cat" into our multi-cat family. I gave him the two weeks most experts recommend in his own room with all of the things he needed. I did the introductions as recommended by experts. It took about a year before he and our alpha male, Calo, to co-exist. There were a couple of times I had to use a broom handle to separate them. This is a large house, and there is a lot of furniture *for cats and general-use* all over. Somehow, we all got to the place where things worked. When I adopt, it's for life and unconditional. Though I was exasperated at times when it seemed as if Calo and Sammi would never get along, we rode it out and finally it did. There were no second or third introductions. There were some "time-outs" but they were short-term (minutes or hours).

So what I would say to you is, as long as blood is not being drawn and no one is injured, I would continue as you are, with supervision when they are together. Linden is senior and the man of the house. He needs to assert his dominance, even to the point of rebuffing Lucy's sweet advances. In time, this need should diminish and I predict you will see them curl up together...in time. Love and patience should win the day.

View attachment 394755
*Boyz Club: beloved angels Calo, Sammi and Samuda*

It’s so good and reassuring to hear successful outcomes of challenging introductions. Lucy isn’t going anywhere, this is her home too. I think if she gave it back to him just a little, it might give him pause. But she takes it, shrugs it off, and goes about her day. I hate seeing Linden unhappy. He’s had a rough year.

I think I will give it the weekend with less separation and see how it goes, but keeping a close eye for physical fights.

 

[tarasgirl06]

It’s so good and reassuring to hear successful outcomes of challenging introductions. Lucy isn’t going anywhere, this is her home too. I think if she gave it back to him just a little, it might give him pause. But she takes it, shrugs it off, and goes about her day. I hate seeing Linden unhappy. He’s had a rough year.

I think I will give it the weekend with less separation and see how it goes, but keeping a close eye for physical fights.

That sounds like a good plan.
My current situation is that Baby Su, born feral and now 17, is only bonded to me. We moved here with 8 of our feline family members and over time she is the only one still here. Four years ago Elvis, 9, an only cat who lived with a dog, joined us. He is very sweet, and basically quite laid-back, but he's also territorial and prey-driven, and if she runs from him, he chases her, which she hates. But they co-exist and spend most of their time together in the large master bedroom, and sometimes she seeks him out and talks to him. I don't know that she's necessarily sweet talking him, but she is spending time in his company. They have tangled twice, both times because he startled her by getting too close to her when she wasn't aware he was there. Neither time was injurious to either of them.

 

[Remi&RiRi]

Thank you for the advice. I‘ve been leaning in that direction to just let them be. I have the weekend to give it a good try with no separation. I just got home and he did nose to nose again, him approaching her, then walked away with no sound. Then Linden flipped out because she followed him.

Any progress is good progress but I know the set backs can be tough. Just try to encourage positive interactions between them and separate them before and if it escalates. By ‘flipping out’ I don’t know if you mean swatting/ hissing. I saw that you said there were no injuries which is good. Linden is just communicating his boundaries with her. Hopefully the no separation this weekend will lead to some progress but if not you can always start the reintroduction process!