Introduction Advice

[WillowMarie]

A little over 2 weeks ago (Sept. 2), I adopted 2 kittens to introduce to my cat Isabelle. Isabelle is just over 9 years and had been with another male about a year ago for most of her life. They were not the best of friends, but they got along. The male was the more dominate one. We have been on our own this past year since I moved away for school, and it has been hard on her just being us, hence adopting the kittens for company. Persia and Katrina are just over 3 months old, and seem very bonded, although not siblings.

The kittens are in the bedroom, with Isabelle in the kitchen/living room/loft area. I sleep with Isabelle every night. Isabelle had a lot of negative energy I helped her get out with playing the first few days, and she has been more playful in general since the kitties arrived. Scent swapping and feeding near the door has been done since the kitties arrived, and at about the 2 week mark were some face to face meetings and letting everyone intermingle for a few hours at a time.

Isabelle will hiss sometimes, sometimes no and just sniff kitties. The kitties are pretty bold and ignore her hissing for the most part, but are cautious other times. A couple times Katrina has hissed back, depending on her mood. I give Isabelle treats when she approaches and around kitties without hissing. I've read hissing can be normal, although I worry it will become a habit, and go back and forth between thinking of slowing down or continue having meetings.

After meetings, such as last night (despite Isabelle being irritable when everyone was separated), Isabelle will sleep on towels that Persia had been resting on right after they are separated. Isabelle will also beg to go into the other room, maybe do her curious meow at the door, and loves sleeping on the bed. She seems less stressed at meetings, she has been letting me pet her without growling and has climbed up on my lap this morning while the kittens were out. Often she will sleep in the bedroom or sit under the bed watching the kittens when they are out while they mainly stay in the living room. If the kitties get too close, she may or may not growl/hiss.

Although, sometimes in the evening, if there is a meet and greet at that time, Isabelle gets rather irritable towards the end as she gets more hissy or will try to swat at them. She has also jumped up the cat tree specifically to hiss at Persia who was calmly sleeping there.

What would advice from people who have been through this? The kittens should be getting spayed in a few weeks, would this affect/influence the introduction if they have not been spayed yet? Obviously during recovery time they would soley be kept in the bedroom to prevent them from climbing and jumping on the large cat tree in the living room.

Also, there were some unexpected repair workers that entered my home today and were unaware to keep the bedroom door shut. (When my landlady alerted me of them being here, I nearly had a panic attack because I wasn't home, and rushed to get there, LoL... I didn't want a negative experience to set back any progress! Isabelle seemed surprisingly very calm with the kittens as the bedroom door was open when I arrived, and touched noses with Katrina with no growling and just camly walked past her.) She is extremely empathetic, and I wondered if she knew they were more nervous (usually they are very bold), or maybe because I wasn't there with my bundle of nerves. I've read cats can feel our anxiety... and that adds to my anxiety during meetings... Anyways, I did crack the door open to let Isabelle peek at the kittens when I got home again, since she was so calm earlier. She looked at Katrina and was fine, gave her some treats and then Pursia peeked and was growled at. Katrina then pushed to the front and was growled at. Now she is meowing at the bedroom door.

I guess any reassurance I haven't F-ed anything up yet and ways to continue working on their introduction. I know I have time since during the kittens spay they will be kept separate, unless it would be a good idea to let Isabelle in the bedroom with them for visits.

Thanks everyone for any advice or personal stories to relate!

 

[rubysmama]

Hello and welcome to TCS. Congrats on the new kittens! They are adorable, as is Isabelle.

It sounds like you're doing the right thing with the introductions. And some hissing is to be expected. It's just a cats way of communicating, and letting the kittens know to back off.

We always say that as long as there's no fur flying, blood, or one cat seeming scared, then all is probably fine. Isabelle is eating, sleeping, using the litter box normally, right?

About spaying the kittens, there is the possibility of having to start the introductions all over again, as sometimes non-recognition aggression occurs when a cat comes back from the vet. Here's a TCS article with more info: How To Deal With Non-recognition Aggression In Cats

Also, here's the TCS articles on cat introductions which may have some tips for you.

How To Introduce A Kitten To An Older Cat | TheCatSite
How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide | TheCatSite
Introducing Cats To Cats | TheCatSite

Good luck. Keep us posted on their progress.

 

[susanm9006]

You introductions sound like they are going well. Don’t get too concerned about growls, hisses and even the occasional slap. It’s going to happen as the kittens are taught boundaries by Isabelle. Adult cats, females particularly seems to have a instinct not to hurt kittens but they most definitely will keep them in line.

 

[ArtNJ]

Yep, susanm9006 is correct that its going just fine, and I'd go a bit further and say just let them work it out from here, you don't need the supervised/limited visits at this point.

As the kittens get bolder and start to annoy her with unwanted contact, there may be more hissing, maybe a swat or two, but that is nothing to worry about.

 

[WillowMarie]

Hello, thank you for the response and encouragement! Things have been so great since posting! After reading your post, I've had courage and confidence to open the bedroom door last night when Isabelle was begging/showing interest in a calm manner.

Still wondering if it was something with the maintenance guys coming in and opening the bedroom door earlier today without me being there, but Isabelle is still A LOT calmer. Instead of sitting on the couch in the living room, I sat on the bed while Isabelle was under it. I also angled the door so she could not see the kitties in the other room when she was under the bed. There was much less growling and hissing, even though the kittens were racing between the living room and bedroom playing with each other. Isabelle also climbed up on the bed a couple times to say hi, and was so calm and let me pet her. One time she growled at a kittie who had came into the bedroom, but was still on the floor, and I kept petting her, but she did not hiss or pull back from me petting her, which was another great progress!

After about an hour or two, I separated everyone. When I was getting to bed, I noticed Isabelle was interested in wanting to go into the bedroom, in a calm, positive way. She sat in front of the door for a few minutes, looking at me and back at the door. Then, for the first time, she laid down with her paws near the crack in the door!

In the morning, before feeding them, since things went so well the night before and Isabelle wanted the bedroom door open, I opened the door and gave everyone a few minutes before prepping food. While prepping food Isabelle came over (in the past she was cranky and wouldn't come over if kitties were in the kitchen), and was still a little hissy, especially if the little ones approached in this area.

BUUUUUT, I turned around and saw Persia had approached and Isabelle LICKED HER ON TOP OF HER HEAD ABOUT THREE TIMES!!! Then Isabelle walked away and started hissing/growling, haha. Not sure if Katrina was close as she walked away, or if she just needed to get hissing/growling out of her system. She also was very calm and ate with the kittens this morning. The kittens are extremely food motivated and I tried feeding Isabelle first, but when I moved one kittie out of the way, the other approached, LoL. So I just put down the two other plates I was holding, one in front of Isabelle and redirected one of the other kitties. In the past she has pouted and was upset as the kittens have escaped when trying to bring in their food and took over eating Isabelle's. But she was super calm this morning!

I couldn't be happier with the progress! I'm still in shock things are going so well, but trying to just accept it and not question it, haha. You guys have given me the courage to keep the door open when I'm not home, thank you! <3 I'll update everyone with how it goes.

 

[ArtNJ]

Sounds like its continuing to go well, and you are getting some mileage out of having two kittens. With just one kitten, usually the kitten jumps on the adult cat quite a lot by now trying to play-play-play, and that makes it a lot harder. I'm sure you'll still have some of that in the future, but its a normal difficulty. Likely improvement will be a gradual thing, rather than a switch flipping thing (though that happens too). Regardless, the big one won't hurt the kittens, so as long as the stress level isn't too crazy, these things do resolve on their own. Sometimes they don't get all the way to friendship, or even all the way to full toleration, but with it going pretty well at the moment, reasonable to be optimistic.

 

[WillowMarie]

Thanks for the feedback. Originally I was thinking of only 1 cat. I did a lot of research, and read that kittens are easier to introduce, and getting 2 was better because they will keep each other entertained, which will be better for an older resident cat.

Plus, with Isabelle being over 9, not sure if I'll have her for a few more years or 10, so when Isabelle is gone, the other two kittens will still have each other.

 

[rubysmama]

Sounds like things are progressing well.

 

[WillowMarie]

Well, Issie seemed pretty aggressive earlier, so I played with her. She`

 

[WillowMarie]

Last post was thanks to Katrina, haha. Isabelle was pretty grouchy earlier, and even lunged/went after kitties. I was trying to get the kitties in one room for food, but Isabelle is extremely smart and knew I had dry food, and wanted to follow me. Ended up feeding her treats while the kitties munched on the dry food. I also played with her separately in the bedroom to help her get her negative energy out.

She also had a knot in her fur that was bothering her, so after two attempts, I was able to shave it out. She was pretty upset (almost afraid she would try to bite me during the first attempt, and she has never bited or scratched before!), but always seems to know I did it to help her and let me pet her and laid with me on the bed afterwards. When I opened the bedroom door later, Pursia came in and immediately jumped up on the bed and laid down, and Isabelle did not fuss despite being awake! Not sure if she is exhausted from all her emotions today, or if she is just happy that the knot came out and the discomfort affected her mood... D: Poor girl... but happy she is calm right now.

 

[WillowMarie]

Well, this morning Isabelle seemed to be grouchy again and seemed to be taking it out on the kittens... I was even hopeful minutes before because Isabelle jumped on the bed to visit with me after my alarm went off, let me pet her, and was purring. When I got up to use the restroom before feeding the cats, all followed me, and Isabelle seemed to redirect her aggression at them by lunging and swatting them. She seemed more aggressive than usual, and I was cranky, so the second time it happened when I was walking to the kitchen to make food, I picked her up and put her in the bathroom while I prepped food. Then I opened the door, let her out, and she ate. Should I have done that? It was just so hard to watch... Especially when earlier in the bathroom Persia walked away to get away from Isabelle's grouchiness towards Katrina and Katrina swung at Persia, not super aggressive, but not in their playful way, so maybe it made Katrina on edge, too? Katrina seems a bit more cautious around Isabelle, even thought both kittens still try to approach Issie at times until they can tell she is not happy with it.

I think it is hard on Isabelle sometimes because she is a cuddler and very loving, and both of the kittens are, too. When Isabelle approached a couple times this past week and Katrina was on the couch/cuddling with me, I set Katrina on the floor and encouraged Isabelle to jump up, but she would walk away. Wonder if she feels discouraged to love on me and it has been hard on her? What would you guys suggest?

Probably going to try more one on one play time with Issie to try and help her get her aggression out. (She has not kept playing in the past if the kittens joined in.) Maybe one on one time to see if she wants cuddles? I did try playing classical music last night and all kitties seemed very sleepy/relaxed, so may try that, too, at times throughout the day. I do have feliway spray I use to spray their carriers, although I read if you start using that it is a temporary solution when introducing cats you may need to keep using it, and would prefer not to invest that much money currently, unless absolutely necessary.

 

[pearl99]

When I've had and older cat and kittens in the past yes I've done one-on-one time with the older cat with the kittens contained in another room for awhile, to give the older cat some peace and snuggle time .
There still continued to be growls, hisses, and swats from the older cat, but that's natural and normal and a way of teaching the kittens the older cat's boundaries. Eventually the kittens may give up or learn. It's nice kittens have each other to play with since older cat won't.
It all sounds normal and actually going well.

 

[WillowMarie]

Thank you everyone for the continued feedback! Good to know, I just have so much anxiety sometimes, but it is great to hear this is normal and going well! Despite Isabelle being grumpy this morning, Persia jumped on the bed to nap again with Isabelle a little bit ago, and she was much closer today! Isabelle let it happen! So I should believe everyone that things are going well despite the hissing/growling/occasional swatting.

 

[pearl99]

Thank you everyone for the continued feedback! Good to know, I just have so much anxiety sometimes, but it is great to hear this is normal and going well! Despite Isabelle being grumpy this morning, Persia jumped on the bed to nap again with Isabelle a little bit ago, and she was much closer today! Isabelle let it happen! So I should believe everyone that things are going well despite the hissing/growling/occasional swatting.
View attachment 300897

It's hard to watch and hear! They sound so scary and mean. My last cat/kitten intro Mooshoo (kitten) kept trying Waffles (older cat) to see if he would play or let her sit beside him etc., she never gave up. Was kind of sweet plus trying to watch. He did get used to her enough to play and let her be near him. Took a few months!

 

[WillowMarie]

It is hard to watch and hear! Thank you for sharing your story. So glad it worked out well for you, and hope Isabelle gets there, too! Bet those few months were torture, but when the cats get to that spot, it is so worth it.

 

[WillowMarie]

Soooo.... this is happening right now! Keep popping in to see where everyone is at! The kittens keep getting closer to Issie, haha. They started 3-4 feet away a couple hours ago, and then Pursia climbed on the storage bin. Isabelle looked at her, and put her head back down to sleep. Then I say Katrina walking over to Issie, reach her paw out and ever so carefully tapped Issie. Isabelle looked up and half-heartedly hissed.Katrina plopped down where she is was at (same as in the picture, just past my pink elephant), and Isabelle put her head back down to sleep. <3

There is still growling and hissing throughout the day, but reminding myself it still is going great if Isabelle is allowing/giving in to let the kitties sleep closer and closer! And you guys keep reminding me this behavior is normal and things seem good, too.

 

[ArtNJ]

Actually better than normal I'd say, at least if we start with a grumpy older cat. Kittens normally aren't big on listening to signals from an older cat, so they normally make things worse by jumping all over the grumpy cat despite verbal protests or swats. I don't know whether yours are the rare kittens willing to listen and respect signals, or they are just so into playing with each other that they don't feel the need to bug the older cat.

In any event, if your kittens stay respectful, its hard not to imagine the older cat continuing to warm up. Its quite possible the kittens won't stay respectful, but its been 2 or 3 weeks already right? I think its safe to assume your little ones are just more chill or respectful than normal, or maybe so into playing with each other they don't need the older one for that.

 

[WillowMarie]

Thanks for your insights. Yes, 3 weeks, with almost a week of having full access to each other. The kitties do seem to respect her a lot, but do try to keep pushing boundaries by approaching her. I see them hesitate sometimes when they want to walk past Isabelle. Like last night, the little ones were rough housing on the bed, practicing their biting and kicking. Pursia was making little squeaky noises a couple times, which attracted Isabelle, who is extremely empathetic and worries if someone sounds hurt. She sniffed Katrina, who was more on top, then laid down calmly a couple feet away. The kitties stopped play fighting right after and Katrina wanted to walk across the bed in front of Isabelle, but stopped a step or two in, staring at Isabelle, and almost turned to go the other way, but then seemed to want to walk forward past Isabelle again, but changed her mind and went the opposite direction. I can't remember if Isabelle was growling/hissing or not that time, but Katrina seemed to consciously think about if she should walk in front of Isabelle or not.

Also, many times when Isabelle was under the bed the first few days of total access, the kitties would chase each other, but whenever they came to the bedroom doorway, they were times they would both halt, like, "wait, we shouldn't race in here right now, other kittie will not be happy", and start chasing each other in the other direction. This is because Isabelle would hiss or growl if they did come in or near the door, so I guess they have been pretty conscious early on.

I knew Isabelle does well with calmer dogs that are more secure (do not show fear/easy going), so I made sure to get kitties that seemed calmer and bold. Pursia's description at the shelter was even "not overly energetic." (She has since gained confidence and her energy level has gone up, but not quite to Katrina's level.)

They haven't really tried to play with Isabelle past following her sometimes or if Isabelle is in a box, etc. and peeking around the corners (then they normally get hissed at). Isabelle has started having a bit of energy return and was running around the house for a few minutes this morning. Persia seemed to take a second or two, then ran into the other room after her. Not sure if she ran up to her or was just following the rooms she was in. She followed her a couple times to different rooms. It was cute, and took it as a sign Isabelle is feeling more relaxed if she has bouts of energy/playfulness.

 

[pearl99]

Kittens sound like my Mooshoo when I got her, so fingers crossed it will turn out well! It's a great start.

 

[WillowMarie]

Things are still going well. Isabelle has had bouts of running in a playful manner, and sometimes the kitties run after her or jump out at her, and she's been good. Only hissed when she wasn't running and the kitties approached.

I have been noticing sometimes Isabelle will approach Persia, growl, maybe try to lick her, but then lightly bite her back, think Isabelle growled a little bit, too. Is this behavior to be concerned about? Persia is super easy going and does not really fight back when Isabelle does this. There have been no actual fights that I've seen.