Integration thread for Kyubi and Sasha (Long)

[ruaryx]

Hey guys, so I'm a little new here.  I joined about a month ago and have really enjoyed reading through some of these threads, especially the ones that recorded the progress of introducing another cat or taming a stray.  I don't know if anyone will want to read this but I really wanted to start a thread of my own to record the introduction of my two kitties, Sasha and Kyubi.  Hopefully by the end of it, they'll be best buds!  But we'll see how it goes.  I'll seriously settle for them just coexisting.  

So some history.  I have had Sasha for about 8 years (named after a fictional dog, haha).  I got her for Christmas when she was about 6 months old and since then we have gone through high school and college together, lived in 2 different cities, and moved from apartment to apartment.  She's a little princess.  She is shy at first but won't hesitate to demand some cuddles once she gets to know you.  Sasha has been an only cat all her life, which may present as a challenge.

Sash.jpg

• ruaryx
• Dec 31, 2014

Sash2.jpg

• ruaryx
• Dec 31, 2014

I have had Kyubi for about two days now (named after Ninetails in Naruto, or the Japanese myth of fox spirits).  He is 8 months old and was a stray in my family's neighborhood.  My sister-in-law and brother took to feeding him and eventually got him into the basement.  Since they're not really pet people, they asked if I wanted to take him in.  Since I am a recent grad living in a smallish flat with my bf and Sasha, I really hesitated to.  However, the alternative was letting him back outside or sending him to the Humane Society.  I had a hard enough time saying no in the first place since I LOOOOOVE all animals, but I just couldn't pas up the opportunity to take in the poor little guy. 

Kyu.jpg

• ruaryx
• Dec 31, 2014

Kyu2.jpg

• ruaryx
• Dec 31, 2014

Anyways, Kyubi has been neutered and given a clean bill of health from the vet other than some roundworms.  He is in my bathroom right now and seems to be adjusting well.  He likes to hang out in his box with a blanket, uses his litter box, and has a heathy appetite.  I'm trying to fatten him up a bit as I can feel way too many bones.  He seems curious about Sasha and the rest of the house.  I have spent some time with him everyday and sometimes leave Music My Pet on for him.  I am also using Feliway.

Kyubi is a really curious cat but can also be timid.  I assume this is from living on the streets and having to watch out for cars, wild animals, other cats, etc.  Sasha, on the other hand, is really mellow.  She is shy and timid at first, but has proven to be able to adjust to many situations such as moving, living with roommates, etc.  She is really comfortable and self-assured once she's settled in.  They both love to sit on my lap, so hopefully Kyubi will take to my bf since he's jealous that Sasha always chooses me over him!  (I'm slowing but surely converting him into a cat person.)

For the first day, Sasha seemed unaware of Kyubi.  She ate and interacted with us normally.  I wasn't sure if she was oblivious to the new addition or just didn't care.  Well, we're sure that she is aware of Kyubi's presence now!  She has been waiting at the door and hissing as we open the bathroom to leave.  This only happened twice and has been the only hissing so far.  She eats by the bathroom door fine, if a little warily.  Also she is acting a bit jealous.  She is more clingy and vocal than usual, but I'm sure it's from feeling threatened about another cat in her territory.  So far, so good.  

I know that we will have to take it slowly as Kyubi still needs to take his last dose of roundworm meds in a week and there is a possible ringworm scare, although it is probably nothing.  We will try to reassure Sasha and will keep feeding them by the door.  So far, we are at the Isolation stage.  I don't want to start scent swapping yet until we're sure about the ringworm.  

I'm already super attached to Kyubi!  I'm a worrier but I am going to think positive thoughts (a furry, snuggly ball of orange and gray, please!)

I've done a lot of research about the introduction process but if you have any advice you want to add, that would be awesome too!!  I will update this when/ if anything changes.  

 

[losna]

They are both very cute!!

I don't know if you've read my thread about my 6 month and continuing integration, but if I had to pick one piece of advice from my experience it would be to take your cues from your cats. Watch them and take the steps that will work for them. I have read every thread and article online that I have gotten my hands on about introducing kitties, and I think the most common mistake that I see people making is to look for some kind of formula. Do X for Y time, then do A for B time, etc. This won't work - cats are as different from each other as people are.   

My general advice/opinion is that if you watch and follow your cats' cues (as it seems you are doing) and do not rush them, you will do fine.

Oh - and, bribery helps. We give Sinbad and Tempest treats every time we catch them interacting, and sometimes they will collude to get more despite themselves. 

 

[ruaryx]

@Losna  I will definitely take a look at the thread!  I've been going through a few old ones.  It's super frustrating when the thread starter stops posting and you don't know what happened!  Lol.  I am hoping that Sasha surprises me and accepts Kyubi without too much fuss.  I used to think that she would always hide from strangers, but she has become quite bold and friendly with age.  Hopefully this will be another case.  

My pantry is stocked with chicken baby food and tuna!  I'm nervous but also super excited for things to progress.  Thanks for the advice!

 

[losna]

Hehe, yeah we go through treats pretty quickly bribing them this way. They get some treats together twice a day, with extras whenever they interact nicely. They don't interact well enough for extra treats very often, but this way we  can at least get 2 happy moments for them together a day. 

 

[ruaryx]

Small updates:

Kyubi seems to be more active at night.  I know that most cats are, however Sasha has always quietly slept with me at night.  Yesterday, Kyubi seemed really sleepy every time I visited him in the bathroom.  However, as soon as midnight hit, you could hear him playing with his toys!  We went to go play with him and he has the cutest little baby "mew".  I felt a little bad because Sasha was on the other side and I think she was jealous although we just spent hours and hours with her.  

Sasha has hissed again when we opened the door to leave the bathroom.  Last night she woke us up by crying, which she never does unless we leave her downstairs.  She was upstairs with us and was only about 4 feet away!  Also, she has been spending A LOT more time with us lately.  Normally, she would just sit with us for a bit and then go somewhere for some alone time and reappear later.  Now, she is spending wayyy more time glued to my lap.  I know I should keep giving her more attention, however I also want to spend a little time with Kyubi at least so that he isn't lonely or bored and we can bond. 

Should I let Sasha see me go into the bathroom?  Should I not see Kyubi as much until Sasha is more relaxed?  

I will continue using the Feliway and Rescue Remedy.  Good news is that Sasha still eats by the door fine.  

 

[losna]

One of the things the more experienced posters around here say often is treat the resident cat as king. I don't have personal experience with this as we adopted Sinbad and Tempest at the same time, but I have found that the things said here often are usually good things to take to heart!! The shelter where we adopted from say it as well; that the resident cat is the one you have to prioritize. Make sure you give Sasha tons of attention if she wants it! 

I would also suggest having your bf play with her while you are in with Kyubi so she is not sitting outside, alone, knowing that you are in with another cat. This is an issue that I have with Tempest - Sinbad is so possessive of me that he gets very upset when I go in to spend time with her. He'll literally start throwing himself bodily against her gate if I'm in there for too long. Most of their fights are actually caused by me; if I pay too much attention to her, he'll start making aggressive displays of possession - Mommy is MINE!! - and then they squabble. 

So I take my cues from him, and my husband plays with him while I'm in with Tempest. What we've recently started doing is having "family" time with he and Tempest in her room and me and Sinbad just outside it. This seems to be helping, but we'll need more time to be sure.

 

[shadowsrescue]

Here are some articles on cat to cat introductions.  My advice to you is to take things slowly and not rush the process.  Watch the cats closely.  Their body language will tell you so much.  Cats are very territorial by nature.  Your resident cat has been the princess and now will have to learn to share her space with a smelly new comer.  Some cats adjust quickly and really like each other from the start, others take a few weeks to few months and still others take a year or more.  Work slowly and consistently with both cats.  In 2013 I brought a stray/feral into my home.  I had a 5 year old male cat and large dog living in the house.  My resident cat did not take kindly to the new cat.  It was a very slow process that took almost one year for the cats to adjust to each other.  Now they play and groom each other.  It has been quite a transformation. 

Don't be discouraged if things are rocky.  Just slow the process and keep working. 

http://www.catbehaviorassociates.com/a-simple-little-trick-to-use-during-new-cat-introductions/

http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/cat-behavior/introducing-your-cat-new-cat

http://jacksongalaxy.com/2010/10/01/cat-to-cat-introductions/

Also a video

 

[ruaryx]

Thanks guys!  

So I have let Kyubi out of the bathroom twice for a short amount of time to explore the downstairs.  Sasha was upstairs with the baby gate up.  Kyubi is a super curious cat and likes to sniff every single nook and cranny and even started sneezing after exploring too much dust.  He also mastered climbing Sasha's cat tree (She struggles to get onto the second plank since it is directly above the first and it takes some maneuvering).  Each time Sasha came out of her hiding spot to sit behind the baby gate and observe.  No hissing or growling at all.  Kyubi either ignored her or didn't know she was there.  

After a short while, I brought Kyubi back to the bathroom and let Sasha come down.  I thought she would retrace his footsteps with her nose but she came right to me for reassurance.  Both times I offered her a special snack and she has been eating them, so she must not be too tense.  

Anyways, I also learned that Sasha has FORLS, gingivitis, and tartar.  :[  I'm taking her to the vet tomorrow to get some lab work done for the dental cleaning and extractions.  Sasha doesn't act like she is in pain at all, but apparently cats are good at hiding it.  Perhaps this explains why she is never able to eat a whole can of food a day.  

I'm super sad that Sasha has been in so much pain without me even knowing!  The vet gave me a toothbrush but I've read that I'm not supposed to brush her teeth since they will be too sensitive with the gingivitis?  Anyways, I will ask the vet about specific preventative measures tomorrow.  Wish me luck.  Sasha will be feeling better soon but my wallet won't.  Ugh.  Anybody have any advice about these conditions?  

 

[losna]

 
I'm super sad that Sasha has been in so much pain without me even knowing!  The vet gave me a toothbrush but I've read that I'm not supposed to brush her teeth since they will be too sensitive with the gingivitis?  Anyways, I will ask the vet about specific preventative measures tomorrow.  Wish me luck.  Sasha will be feeling better soon but my wallet won't.  Ugh.  Anybody have any advice about these conditions?  

Raw meat and bone can help a lot. Our vet was delighted when I asked about diet when I started working on transitioning Sinbad and Tempest to a full raw diet, one of her specific comments was that it was great for their dental health and that even a small strip a day will help keep their teeth healthy.

As to brushing, you can just start slowly. Begin just using your finger. Once they're used to having your finger in the mouth, wrap a thin piece of gauze around your fingertip and use that until comfort level is reached, then progress to brush. 

 

[ruaryx]

Thanks @Losna.  Does eating any kind of raw meat help, for example the commercial raw nuggets?  Sasha isn't picky when it comes to dry or canned, but she does not recognize other things as food, such as boiled chicken, cat treats, chunks of raw meat, etc.  I think I might get her to eat it if I mushed up the nuggets but she won't eat it if it is just a small piece of meat.  So does raw meat in general help or does she need to be chewing on meat and bones?  Thanks!

 

[losna]

I recommend you check out the raw feeding subforum if that's something you want to do, even if it's only a piece of meat or two a day. I can tell you what I do, but I don't know what's sold commercially, or the needs/health of your kitties so if you want to take up this suggestion I cannot stress doing lots of your own research on it enough. 

I feed Sinbad and Tempest chunks of raw human grade meat. I buy fryer chickens when they go on sale and cut them up with kitchen shears. I also buy chicken hearts, gizzards and livers and beef kidneys, so I make my little kitties a franken meal to go along with their canned.  My freezer is always stuffed full of hacked up meat. 

 It ends up costing $1.99 a pound, and I tend to go through 1-2 pounds a week depending on how much I spoil them and how active they've been. One note - I shop at Whole Foods, which is otherwise known as Whole Paycheck. So you could likely drop that even further if you shop elsewhere.

When I first started giving them meat, I crushed up a few of their treats and sprinkled it on top of the meat, then put that in their canned food because they didn't recognize meat as food. Now they love it, although amusingly they still won't eat it by itself. Sinbad just loves his chicken spines. He always picks those out of his food first and crunches away happily. Every time he realizes he has a chicken spine with his food he does this little excited dance/jump thing. It's adorable. 

But that's what my vet said was good for dental health - the chunks of raw meat and bone that I hack up myself. Sorry, I don't know if any other form of raw food (ground, commercial, etc) helps that way! 

  The nice posters in the raw subforums can probably help you more if you ask there! 

 

[ruaryx]

I will definitely do some research.  I'm thinking about at least integrating some bones to supplement their canned, but who knows?  Maybe Sasha will begin to love it.  Thanks for all the suggestions.  

 

[chaucer]

They are so cute, Ruaryx!  The age difference may be a bit of an issue.  My friends have a nearly 8 months old kitten and one the age of Sasha.  Agnes has just now, after about 3 months, begun accepting the kitten Miss Honeychurch, so it takes some time.  Once Kyubi is out and about more in the house, perhaps some group play therapy would help, particularly with Sasha, to diffuse some of the aggression Sasha may have with the kitten.

 

[ruaryx]

Thanks @Chaucer.  I'm taking it really really slowly since Kyubi still needs to get cleared for roundworms.  Sasha has not been very aggressive.  She has hissed a few times but has mostly gotten really clingy and needy with me.  I'm hoping that her upcoming dental won't make her associate Kyubi with bad things.  

 

[ruaryx]

So Kyubi no longer wants to stay in his bathroom.  When we go in there, he begs to come out!  Also, he has been scratching and grooming constantly.  Today I found a little bloody spot under his chin where I saw him scratching.  We know he doesn't have fleas, so I'm guessing it's his dry food.  He was on Science Diet when I got him so I free fed it to him (along with a bunch of canned and some raw).  He's so skinny I figured it couldn't hurt!  I'm going to stop feeding it to see if it's food allergies.  

Sasha has been a big cry baby lately.  I'm not sure if it is the painful teeth or the presence of a new cat.  She has also been eating less. Ugh, can't wait for her dental to be over.  

Last night I switched their beds for some scent familiarization.  Kyubi loved Sasha's bed, but Sasha didn't sleep in his.  However, she will lay on his blanket if I put it on my lap. (She knows that me putting a blanket on my lap is an invitation for her, since I always use a blanket to protect myself from her claws.)  

I don't want Kyubi to be lonely/ bored but Sasha is feeling needy.  Two opposing needs.  

Also in the process of introducing a tiny bit or raw into their diets.  Kyubi eats it willingly, but I got Sasha to eat it by mixing in a bunch of fishy smelling treats.  I'll take that.   

 

[chaucer]

I am beginning to think opposing needs is the norm.   One of my cats needs to be on a diet and the other one is long, lean and tall.  Trying for balance is difficult. Hopefully, Sasha will calm down after her dental work and maybe some joint play therapy might help with Kyubi's boredom and Sasha's need for attention.

 

[ruaryx]

Updates:  So it has been exactly 2 weeks and 5 days since Kyubi's arrival.  Sasha is all good to go with scent familiarization.  I've been swapping Sasha and Kyubi's beds.  Kyubi always slept in Sasha's without hesitation, but Sasha avoided his for a few days.  After she slept in it once or twice, I switched them back.  Now Sasha has been sleeping in the switched beds reliably without any signs of distress.  Also, both cats have been reliably eating on either sides of the door without much more than a few hisses (from the resident cat, of course).  

Next on my list is either room swapping or controlled visual familiarization.  I figured that the room swapping would be okay since Sasha is now used to Kyubi's smell.  It was a no go.  I swapped them while they were both in their carriers (covered).  As soon as I let Sasha out of her carrier into Kyubi's safe room, she hissed almost continuously and growled.  I switched them back and she calmed down immediately.  

I know that I need to take it slow but, UGH, how much slower can it get!!?  Maybe I should just try visual and see how that goes.  I was planning on stacking two tall baby gates, using a blanket to cover them both and only leaving a sliver for them to look at each other.  Meanwhile I'll feed yummy snacks.  Sasha and Kyubi HAVE seen each other from the top of the stairs and the bottom with the baby gate in between.  There were no signs of aggression whatsoever.  So I suppose I should be hopeful, but I'm so impatient.  I just want them to get along!  

Anyways, I'll wait to try that tomorrow since today has stressed them both out.  It doesn't help that I forgot to use the Feliway and Rescue Remedy.  

On the plus side, when I took Kyubi to the vet for a check up, I left his safe room door open for Sasha to explore.  When we got back, it was obvious that she had been there because his food was all gone!  Maybe I should just isolate Kyubi somewhere and keep his safe room door open to see if she will explore.  

Anyways, wish me luck.  By the way, I really hate those youtube cat intro videos where it takes like 2 days for the cats to start cuddling.  Obviously NOT my cats.  

 

[chaucer]

My cats didn't cuddle, and still don't, but they will sleep near each other, eat together and play, although the female is very fussy about the playing and the male can be territorial when it comes to my bed. It's been about five months since they began living in the house together. The double-gates might work and feeding them at the same time should help them associate the other with something good. After that, I do feel play therapy diffuses the tension.

 

[chaucer]

I want to add that my friends have an 8 year old female and brought in a five-month old kitten (one of my rescue's kittens) a while back.  There was a little hissing on the part of the resident cat but they eventually brought them together fairly quickly under supervised visits. The resident cat did not like the kitten and ignored her or growled at her.  The kitten, however, wanted to play with the older cat and showed no fear but the kitten had been living with her mother and four siblings in my storage room and was used to other cats, including my resident male who went out for "play dates" with her after the other kittens were adopted. 

It's been 5 months since they took the kitten and their resident cat is just now getting used to having Miss H around. I think situations are different depending on the personalities of the cats.  My resident cat was the one who was curious about the newcomer and wanted to play with her. He also loved the kitten and enjoyed playing wither her. My newcomer rescue kitty was the hissy, growling, fussy one. She is still kind of a drama queen.

 

[ruaryx]

@Chaucer, aw that sounds  awesome.  Thanks for sharing your experience. 

I want to take it slow but my lease ends in August.  We're planning on moving and bringing the kitties with us, but I wish they would get along before the move.  But either way, I'll have to take it at their pace. 

Updates: Sasha has been more hissy lately.  She hardly hissed at the door to Kyubi's room before, but she has been doing it a lot lately, usually when he is pawing the space under.  I guess I should hold back on moving forward with anything atm.