I'm Blacklisted By Dog Breeders

[wannahelp]

I had been looking for a dog, although I've been so depressed lately, that I don't even want to go outside and have to be seen in public. That's another story.

Due to medical issues, I cannot drive very far. If I get a dog, it's likely the breeder will not be my immediate area. I have already done two years of extensive dog breeder research. I am very thorough when I research things and I like to ask a lot of questions. When I got my last dog, I thought I was well-informed but he turned out to have a lot of behavioral issues.

I know that a lot of breeders don't like to be questioned and get perturbed when they are. They say they want owners to be educated but obviously, they don't mean it because if they did, they'd appreciate the fact that someone like me, took the time to ask so many quesitons.

The next major strike against me is that because I cannot drive long distances, I cannot go in person to pick up a dog and breeders think that because of that I won't be able to care for a dog. I have owned dogs all my life. I don't have kids, I don't work, I'm not married or in a relationship. The only things I have are my animals and nobody will sell me a dog.

It's difficult enought to find a breeder who will even reply to an inquiry, let alone a reputable breeder who will sell me a dog AND allow my father or brother to pick the dog up for me.
I was depressed before. Now, I'm even more so.
What makes matters worse, is that I need a non shedding dog. So, I have it narrowed to two breeds. I had a deposit stolen by one breeder, another one screwed me over in one way and a third, in one particular breed, screwerd me over in another way, over the course of about a year and a half.
I finally got off the waiting list for a breeder of the other kind of dog and she won't sell it to me because i can't get there in person. I offered to skype but that wasn't good enough. I'm sure word will get around and I won't be able to get a dog from any decent breeder, despite the fact that my animals have always received the best care.
I can't let my parents try to get a dog for me becaue breeders won't sell ot people over a certain age, for fear that they'll get sick or die and the dog will end up in a shelter.
Rescues are even more difficult.
I'll probably be blacklisted completely. I'll have to change my identity to get a dog but it won't matter because I still can't get to the breeders in person.
I sit alone in my house every single day, with nobody to talk to and nothing to do. Now, I can't even get a dog.

 

[1 bruce 1]

I had been looking for a dog, although I've been so depressed lately, that I don't even want to go outside and have to be seen in public. That's another story.

Due to medical issues, I cannot drive very far. If I get a dog, it's likely the breeder will not be my immediate area. I have already done two years of extensive dog breeder research. I am very thorough when I research things and I like to ask a lot of questions. When I got my last dog, I thought I was well-informed but he turned out to have a lot of behavioral issues.

I know that a lot of breeders don't like to be questioned and get perturbed when they are. They say they want owners to be educated but obviously, they don't mean it because if they did, they'd appreciate the fact that someone like me, took the time to ask so many quesitons.

The next major strike against me is that because I cannot drive long distances, I cannot go in person to pick up a dog and breeders think that because of that I won't be able to care for a dog. I have owned dogs all my life. I don't have kids, I don't work, I'm not married or in a relationship. The only things I have are my animals and nobody will sell me a dog.

It's difficult enought to find a breeder who will even reply to an inquiry, let alone a reputable breeder who will sell me a dog AND allow my father or brother to pick the dog up for me.
I was depressed before. Now, I'm even more so.
What makes matters worse, is that I need a non shedding dog. So, I have it narrowed to two breeds. I had a deposit stolen by one breeder, another one screwed me over in one way and a third, in one particular breed, screwerd me over in another way, over the course of about a year and a half.
I finally got off the waiting list for a breeder of the other kind of dog and she won't sell it to me because i can't get there in person. I offered to skype but that wasn't good enough. I'm sure word will get around and I won't be able to get a dog from any decent breeder, despite the fact that my animals have always received the best care.
I can't let my parents try to get a dog for me becaue breeders won't sell ot people over a certain age, for fear that they'll get sick or die and the dog will end up in a shelter.
Rescues are even more difficult.
I'll probably be blacklisted completely. I'll have to change my identity to get a dog but it won't matter because I still can't get to the breeders in person.
I sit alone in my house every single day, with nobody to talk to and nothing to do. Now, I can't even get a dog.

Two things jump out at me that make me think these breeders are worthless...
1). No good breeder is going to get perturbed at being "interviewed" by a potential buyer. They want informed people that ask the right questions and are making absolutely sure they're getting a quality dog. If the breeders are annoyed by this (or are annoyed when the buyer, a few weeks later, is asking them puppy questions), they're probably not all that great.
2). Breeders shouldn't fear their dogs will be at a shelter because they usually have a stipulation in the contract that states they get the dog back for any reason, and if the owner should pass away, the owners make arrangements for the breeder to be notified so the dog can be taken back and either kept, re-sold, etc., to keep them OUT of the shelter in the first place.
What breeds are you looking at? You're welcome to PM me, I might be able to help.

 

[neely]

Rescues are even more difficult.

Did you mean a purebred rescue group or a dog rescued from a shelter?

Most purebred rescue groups require you to fill out an application and be approved before they will consider placing a dog with you. However, if you get approved some will bring the dog to your house to determine if it's the right fit and check out your living arrangement(s), e.g. fenced in yard, etc.

A shelter would also require you to fill out an application as well as meet the other family members in your house. If your dad or brother were able to drive you to the shelter this could be a win-win situation. I don't know what two breeds you are considering but shelters do get purebreds as strays, owner surrenders, (for various reasons), and elderly people who provided a loving home for their dog but either passed away or had to go to a nursing facility.

 

[wannahelp]

I’m talking about breeders. I checked rescues and shelters but they actually make things more difficult. Plus, they didn’t have a dog that fit what i’m looking for.

 

[1 bruce 1]

Did you mean a purebred rescue group or a dog rescued from a shelter?

Most purebred rescue groups require you to fill out an application and be approved before they will consider placing a dog with you. However, if you get approved some will bring the dog to your house to determine if it's the right fit and check out your living arrangement(s), e.g. fenced in yard, etc.

A shelter would also require you to fill out an application as well as meet the other family members in your house. If your dad or brother was able to drive you to the shelter this could be a win-win situation. I don't know what two breeds you are considering but shelters do get purebreds as strays, owner surrenders, (for various reasons), and elderly people who provided a loving home for their dog but either passed away or had to go to a nursing facility.

We've worked with rescues that were fantastic, and a few that were nothing short of a group of control freak maniacs, dictating what the dog is fed (only stuff they allow), if and when to vaccinate (they require proof that it was done or the dog is taken back), and being told it's not a "Sale", but a transfer of ownership and they legally will own the dog forever, and can legally take the dog back for any reason if they feel things aren't "up to par". Up to WHAT par? =/

 

[amethyst]

I don't know what country you live, so maybe it's different there, but asking questions and not being able to pick the dog up in person don't sound like grounds for not allowing you to buy/adopt a dog. I can't drive at all, though I do have my husband who does (I'm guess you have your brother or dad that can drive you?), and the breeders I talked to had no issue. I have to agree that the breeders don't sound right if they get annoyed by you asking questions. Both times I went to a breeder to get dogs I think the breeders asked me more questions then I asked them, lol. I guess it does depend on the questions you are asking though. If it's things that can be easily found out online, in books, etc, like the basics of the breed, not specifically about their dogs or clarification about what you read, I can somewhat understand the annoyance. If that is the case I suggest joining a breed specific Facebook page or forum, that way you can ask general questions from other people who own and love the breed.

Also as said most good breeders in the US and Canada have it in their contract that the dog goes back to them should something happen, not to a shelter. It would also be technically illegal to deny someone solely based on age or disability, at least it is in the US and Canada. However they can deny your parents adopting/buying it for you if you don't live with them.

I'm not sure I understand the not being able to drive that far part, is it that you can't drive far or can't travel far? Well either way, I also know of breeders that will ship pups across country on planes, so obviously the person isn't driving to the breeder's house/kennel to get the dog. My last pup the breeder even agreed to met me part of the way just off the highway so I didn't have to drive so far. I only see an issue with not being about to travel far if the vet's office is too far of a drive away.

I do know what you mean by some shelters being crazy with their requirements though. The first cat I got when I moved here, the SPCA almost wouldn't allow me to adopted her because I was taking care of my brother in-law's dog at the time, who wasn't neutered.

Just another thought, I know you say you want a dog, but seeing as this is a cat forum site, what about getting a big dog like cat instead? Something like a Savannah (if you can get them in your country) are very dog like, you can even take them out on walks like you would a dog.

 

[wannahelp]

I was questions specifically abou the breeder’s dogs, particularly, health of the puppy’s parents and their lines, results of puppy’s temperament testing, what parents’ temperaments are like. I know a lot of people don’t care about all the details but aftet my last dog, who had a lot of “issues,” I need answers to these questions.
Anlotnof breeders are insulted by that sort of questioning. With this particular breeder, there was also a question of inbreeding because my vet told me she didn’t like the idea because the puppy’s grandmother died of some type of kidney diseaee but the breeder’s handler had the dog at the time, so she wasn’t 100% sure about the nature of the kidney problem that killed the dog. The puppy’s great grandma had kidney lymphoma and stomach cancer at the same age the puppy’s grandmother died. So, not knowing too much about henetics, it intuitively seemed like having puppy’s mother and father share a maternal line, could increase chances of some sortnof kidney issue.
I realize a lot of faftors contribute to disease but that was concening, so I asked a lot of questions.
Right now, traveling more than 30 minites is problematic for me. My vet is within that distance and so are the training classes.
Because the breeder was already annoyed because of all the questions and also my second guessing the potential health of the puppies, telling her I couldn’t pick the dog up myself, was the straw that broke the camel’s back. It was a really nice puppy. I was very disappointed because I’d been waiting to find a dog for a long time and I’d been on her waiting list for a long time. I had encountered other breeders in the past, who wouldn’t sell me a dog because I couldn’t travel that far to meet them in person.
They jump to conclusions that if you can’t take a long car ride, you can’t care for a dog.
I’m still working with my young male, who was feral. Plus, there are some things that you just can’t do with cats. My brother has Bengals and they don’t impress me.

 

[lutece]

I was questions specifically abou the breeder’s dogs, particularly, health of the puppy’s parents and their lines, results of puppy’s temperament testing, what parents’ temperaments are like. I know a lot of people don’t care about all the details but aftet my last dog, who had a lot of “issues,” I need answers to these questions.
Anlotnof breeders are insulted by that sort of questioning.

Speaking as a cat breeder... I love buyers that ask questions, and I will totally talk your ear off about the health and temperament of the parents and ancestors of my cats many generations back. I am also happy to talk about how and why I make breeding decisions, including more difficult breeding decisions, as long as I feel comfortable talking with the buyer, and feel that their expectations are realistic.

However, there are certain buyers that bring up these same questions in a more hostile, combative way that makes me uncomfortable. Other buyers seem to have unrealistic expectations about buying a pedigreed animal. From the breeder's perspective, it is scary to sell kittens or puppies, and it's natural for breeders to prefer buyers who make them feel more comfortable. Is it possible that you were questioning these breeders in a manner that felt hostile and unsympathetic to the breeder? Might they be worrying that you would cause trouble for them after getting the puppy?

 

[1 bruce 1]

I was questions specifically abou the breeder’s dogs, particularly, health of the puppy’s parents and their lines, results of puppy’s temperament testing, what parents’ temperaments are like. I know a lot of people don’t care about all the details but aftet my last dog, who had a lot of “issues,” I need answers to these questions.
Anlotnof breeders are insulted by that sort of questioning. With this particular breeder, there was also a question of inbreeding because my vet told me she didn’t like the idea because the puppy’s grandmother died of some type of kidney diseaee but the breeder’s handler had the dog at the time, so she wasn’t 100% sure about the nature of the kidney problem that killed the dog. The puppy’s great grandma had kidney lymphoma and stomach cancer at the same age the puppy’s grandmother died. So, not knowing too much about henetics, it intuitively seemed like having puppy’s mother and father share a maternal line, could increase chances of some sortnof kidney issue.
I realize a lot of faftors contribute to disease but that was concening, so I asked a lot of questions.
Right now, traveling more than 30 minites is problematic for me. My vet is within that distance and so are the training classes.
Because the breeder was already annoyed because of all the questions and also my second guessing the potential health of the puppies, telling her I couldn’t pick the dog up myself, was the straw that broke the camel’s back. It was a really nice puppy. I was very disappointed because I’d been waiting to find a dog for a long time and I’d been on her waiting list for a long time. I had encountered other breeders in the past, who wouldn’t sell me a dog because I couldn’t travel that far to meet them in person.
They jump to conclusions that if you can’t take a long car ride, you can’t care for a dog.
I’m still working with my young male, who was feral. Plus, there are some things that you just can’t do with cats. My brother has Bengals and they don’t impress me.

If you're able to, can you visit the training classes and talk with the trainer? If they are competitive in dogs as a whole they may know someone who would fit your needs that would either have a puppy or be planning a litter that would be promising for what you want.

 

[wannahelp]

I asked via email, so I’m not sure that it’s possible to sound hostile. My questions were just questions.Inwasn’t arguing or third degreeing. I had to bring up my concerns, especially after what my vet told me.
It’s also difficult for owners, when their vets are telling them one thing and the breeder is saying another, to know which way to go.
Also, it always seems, as it does here, that breeders tend to get defensive very easily and want to shift the blame to the potential owner. If breeders, as a whole, are that sensitive, then maybe they shouldn’t be breeding. I think breeders should take a basic business course or something to teach them to deal with people/owners/customers.
No, animals are not a product and breeding is not a business, for some, at least. However, when dealing with the public in transactions that involve money, you have to be able to deal with people as if it is a business. Business owners don’t get their feathers ruffled easily because dealing with people is difficult and you can’t deal with everybody the same way.
I’ve spoken to a LOT of breeders. They are control freaks and if they don’t feel in control of a conversation or questioning, they become defensive and don’t want to deal with the “offender.” This is a decision people will be living with for a very long time. It’s not like buying a shirt or even a car. What I’m trying to say is that, what breeders consider “combative” is most likely a lot different from an objective definition.
Because I was on a waiting list, questions that I normally would ask on the initial call, didn’t happen until later and I had forgotten to ask about things I usually ask about earlier. So, I had to send a few follow up emails. I’m a very mild mannered and even siffident person, not to mention pathologically deferntial. It takes a LOT to push me to the point of hostility. There was simply no reason for it in this situation anyway.

 

[lutece]

You stated that you want to buy a dog and you don't want breeders to reject you. Are you looking for advice on communicating with breeders in a way that doesn't make them get defensive or worry about your ability to care for a dog?

 

[wannahelp]

My issue is that a lot of breeders won’t sell a dog to somebody who cannot physically go in person to pick up the dog.

 

[amethyst]

My issue is that a lot of breeders won’t sell a dog to somebody who cannot physically go in person to pick up the dog.

That still seems odd to me, maybe it's just breeders of the specific breed you are looking for, or the people that breed them in your area. Are you looking for a very rare or new breed? If so it can make sense that they are picky about who they choose to sell to, they will likely be able to afford to pick the best of the best home. You might want to ask why it's a problem if you are able to get to everything in the dog's day to day life. Why is living near the breeder a requirement for them. Or maybe widen your breed options, all you have said is it needs to be non shedding, well that just narrows it down to about 30 or so breeds (not including mixes), that is still a lot. I know you may have your heart set on a specific breed, but if people that breed those dogs are too picky you may have to go with a different breed.

 

[wannahelp]

The rare breed people were not as uptight but many of them are not great breeders anyway. The breed I’m looking at is not rare. I wouldn’t be sending a bum off the street.
It’s like a strange requirement that some breeders want photos of everybody in the household? Why?

 

[Willowy]

I've heard---never dealt with a "real" breeder myself---that a lot of the decent-but-not-insane dog breeders don't use the internet well or often, and it's better to call them on the phone. I don't know if that will help but I'm sure it couldn't hurt. I mean the breeders who never answered you to begin with, of course, not the ones who you've already dealt with.

 

[wannahelp]

I have done both, called and emailed.

 

[miagi's_mommy]

What breed are you looking at?? Responsible breeders should be willing to answer all questions you have happily!

 

[wannahelp]

Since the recent incident, when the breeder freaked out because I told her I was sensing my father to pick up th puppy, I’m also being shunned on the breed specific dog forum.

You might think I committed animal abuse!

 

[1 bruce 1]

Since the recent incident, when the breeder freaked out because I told her I was sensing my father to pick up th puppy, I’m also being shunned on the breed specific dog forum.

You might think I committed animal abuse!

Some breeds have fanciers that are a bit..uh, nuts.
There I said it. Most don't (most breed people are very nice and super happy to help and welcome new comers) but some are, well, kind of a group of old, bitter hags that complain their breed isn't more popular but turn a flame thrower on anyone who expresses interest.
I was shunned on a small message board (now defunct, LOL!) once for posting a picture of a happy dog in mud after a hard work out. Apparently, dogs are delicate flowers that should never get dirty...

 

[wannahelp]

A lot of dog breeders are older women and a lot of women, who seem to be the majority on the forum in question, are evidently, rather catty as well. I was on a general dog forum last year, posting that I was wronged by a breeder and was pounced on and made out to be the villain.
When these kinds of things happen, I tend to take them too personally and just want to withdraw and forget about even getting a dog, and, I especially get turned off to the breed itself.
I’ve always been a loner but not by choice. So, I loathe cliques and cattiness but I have seen a lot of both in this breed, as well as the other one that I was looking at. More men need to be recruited to become dog breeders.
I never did get along well with women. I guess it’s biology. If women see someone as a threat, they have to find a way to eliminate that threat. If someone is an inferior, they have to ensure those genes are selected out too. Obviously, humans don’t usually accomplish this is the same manner as animals but I know firsthand that they can be just as effective.