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Ibd? Constipated Cat. After The Enema...

Discussion in 'Cat Health' started by sidneykitty, Jan 26, 2019.

  1. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

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    You should notice that Amber gets perkier after each B-12 shot. It will probably start yielding results by the third or fourth one.
     

  2. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Right, what you're saying are some of my biggest worries. I'm hoping to find another food she can and will eat. She's always been a very picky girl, but what cat isn't? Sigh.. even the vet expressed a lot of frustration with IBD!

    I always expected Amber to go the way of kidney disease, I don't know why, but the heart disease and IBD were unexpected. She's always had such great digestion for the three years we've had her and her bloodwork has always been spectacular for her age. I guess I'm having a hard time facing her mortality... but that's something we all must go through. Its been a rough few months for me lately with moving and family deaths and I wonder if it rubs off on her.

    Argh. Sorry, that was an aside...

    I'm considering trying raw now. Before we adopted her she was an outdoor cat for the most part and she did a lot of hunting. We had her go indoor/outdoor when we first had her and she would hunt and eat a wide variety of animals. Now she is purely indoor. Her previous owner was convinced it was good for her. Part of me does wonder about these commercial foods.

    Unfortunately, I am the kind of person who generally takes a long time to make a decision and likes to research a lot before commiting. I get stuck in indecision for a long time. I spent a year deliberating on a medical decision for myself that turned out to be so good I wish I'd done it earlier! I know I don't have that kind of time here. Do you have more info somewhere on tranisitioning to raw, how it is done? Is it the raw foods I see at the pet store?

    I haven't seen any Tiki Cats that isn't at least two different proteins, nor have I seen Pure Vita brand...I'll have to look again. Right now I've got Lotus rabbit, Natural Balance duck, Merrick duck and potentially Hill's z/d to backup my Fancy Feast.

    This morning, she definitely actually sat down and ate more food in one sitting than she's done in a few days, so that's a good sign... yesterday I had to keep setting the bowl down in front of her for her to lick at it for a bit then walk away.
     

  3. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Sorry one more question.. as soon as I introduce another food do I start my 12-week count over again?
     

  4. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

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    Just as I was typing out how Krista was on hunger strike, she finally came out of hiding to eat again.

    If Amber can eat red meat, then doing the Introductory Diet is as simple as finding a frozen game meat (elk, venison, wild boar, bison, or even lamb) and thawing it out for her. These tend to be a lot easier to find as unseasoned boneless meats than poultry or rabbit. Warm up about a quarter-sized slider's worth of meat in a baggie under warm, but not hot, water. If she takes to it and keeps it down, you can offer several of those sliders until the next poop. If the next poop is okay, go ahead and offer more. Keep going like that for a few days until she's eating the raw meat only. You can also pick up bone broth from the pet food stores. These won't have onion, garlic, salt, or other problematic ingredients like the grocery store broth may have. You don't have to overthink this. It's just for a couple of weeks to give her gut some rest. Going fully raw would take supplementation. This is only a short-term (two weeks) diet because it is not nutritionally balanced. If she can't eat red meat, try to source the meat either boneless frozen or whole cuts from refrigerated section which you will have to debone and cut into slices or shreds that she will eat. I don't trust refrigerated ground meat as they generally pump that with a gas to make it look fresher than it is.

    Store-bought raw in the freezer cases in pet food stores all contain bone. That's fine for a cat with a healthy GI tract. But bone tends to constipate IBD kitties. You could certainly try them. If they work for her, commercial raw is really simple and can have huge benefits. But some of the commercial raw still has too much vegetable matter.

    I'm not suggesting you take her fully raw and never look back. Take your time and do your research before going raw. But for a two week heal-and-seal, you can get away with winging it.
     
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  5. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

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    Aside from the kibble that did all the damage to her in the first place, I have never been able to get Krista to eat the same food for twelve weeks. You're talking to the wrong person about that kind of diet.
     
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  6. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    At this rate I just don't know how I'll get her to eat one food for 12 weeks!

    The good news is this morning she did eat her 1/2 can breakfast quite well! I also did find PureVita at the store so I picked some up and got a few samples of things.

    Thanks so much for the info, its something to think about!
     
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  7. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    And of course after I posted this, she decided not to eat again. She finally had a great poop today (not too hard not too soft) but she still just isn't eating enough. I finally caved and decided to give her some dry food just so she woud eat.

    I had an idea and checked the fiber content of the dry foods she's eaten. Originally, she was eating one that was 2% fiber. After her ultrasound she started eating venison & green pea which had 6% fiber! That's quite a jump I guess. After two-three weeks on this food, she got terribly constipated and now she just hasn't been 100% since.

    I'm wondering now if a lower fiber dry food could be added to her diet in smaller amounts than she was eating before just to bulk up her caloric intake a little. Anyone have thoughts on too much fiber and constipation? Or on a novel protein dry food with low fiber?

    Ideally she'd only eat wet food, I know, but this just isn't working for us right now. She isn't eating the vet's Rx food and she won't touch the wet food she used to eat so I'm battling with eating dry food or eating nothing at all. I'll call the vet Monday AM for further recommendations.
     
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  8. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

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    Your cat needs bulk and moisture to poop. Dry food, because of it’s terrible digestibility, will have no problem providing the bulk. But without the moisture, that becomes constipation. When you add fiber on top of that, you’re only making matters worse. A lower fiber dry food will definitely help with the constipation. But reducing or eliminating dry portions altogether will go that much further.

    I would crush up some of Amber’s favorite kibble and use that as a topper to get her to eat more wet if you need the help there. But trying to fix dry is bailing a sinking boat.
     
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  9. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Right... hopefully we'll get there. I did crunch up her kibble (wow that stuff is hard!) and put it on the wet food. It got her to eat some, but only the layer with the dry food on top, then she wouldn't eat any more. Its a slow-going process.

    Just to try, last night we boiled some chicken to see if she would eat it and she ate most of it. Next time, we might try to put the chicken on top of the wet food and see if that entices her.

    In other news, the vet called and said it may not be IBD. She's looking at Amber's history and supposed to call me back "with a plan." I feel a little trepidation at what she's going to tell me. But part of me also has wondered if it could be something else (like early kidney disease with all the constipation??).
     
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  10. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Don't you love all the vet "plans" ;-)

    I finally found your thread where you and poor Amber and doing the food battle. XOXOOX I will be following this one too.

    There were a few things mentioned in this thread that struck a cord with me.

    Constipation and inflammation for starters.

    Here is something it took 4 vets and 3 years for anyone to clue in on. Though they were all provided the exact same details.

    - One of the complaints I kept repeating to the vets over and over was "His poo is very hard and dark but he drinks a lot and pees a lot just fine." Nothing was really done but a higher fiber food - slight change but not a lot.

    In Oct of last year, Charlie attacked someone - other than me - it was bad. It was suggested I have him looked at by a vet. I very reluctantly did thinking it would be a waste of time and money. WRONG. I was so very wrong. They tested his poop, and of all things for urinary issues. Yet he displayed no signs at all for urinary issues. No problems going to the litter, no pain nadda. It turned out he had a bad infection 4/4 blood and ecoli. :-\

    I was so confused about how constipation related to bladder and then the new vet said that sometimes a cat will hold their poop if there is a bladder issue because it puts pressure on the bladder and causes pain. This ends up causing hard poop and constipation.

    I bring this up because of the enema and item two: Inflammation.

    So like Amber, Charlie had ultrasounds, he also had xrays that showed Inflammation of the intestines.

    Fast forward to what @daftcat75 said (condensed):

    This makes me wonder if why all this time Charlie had such a massive aversion to even taste testing new food was due to the inflammation.

    I may have missed t but I didn't see any antibiotics listed for Amber's inflammation - if she's had that I apologize - my head is very full.

    If she hasn't - I really think the 8 weeks of Anti-biotics Charlie was just on has temporarily relieved the inflammation and maybe that's why he's actually taste testing now? He's picky, like Amber, but the last several times we've tried a food trial he would starve himself to death even with presenting the doctored food. This time I still am doctoring it, but he's at least eating some and taste testing.

    It got me thinking:

    Could this be something with Amber too? Especially considering the triaditis?
     

  11. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Aw thanks for stopping in! I didn't want to hijack your thread, but its been helpful reading!

    Interesting. Her poop has always been on the hard/small/dark side and I've discussed it with her vets before, too.

    So was his infection a bladder infection or something else? How strange. But that totally makes sense about the bladder holding/pain and poop.

    I guess her history is she's always had "excellent bloodwork for her age". I started taking her for 6-monthlies and she's never really had anything wrong. Once, she had high calcium but we retested ionized calcium later and it was fine. A couple of times she had crystals or sediment in her urine, but upon further testing it resolved or determined to be an artifact, however that has been something that's come up more than once which makes me wonder...

    Her January blood work, urine and ultrasound all showed nothing wrong. So they basically decided IBD or food intolerance was a diagnosis of exclusion so shrug, must be what it is! Her intestines did not have inflammation, but they reasoned it could be early and uniform along the whole track which is why they didn't see it.

    The thing that instigated all this was a spat of vomiting she had around Christmas and before that, one in October.

    No, so far she's not had any medications prescribed for the possible IBD and is not on any meds now. Edit: I forgot she just started B12!

    I am curious, too, what it could be... I will update when I hear more from the vet.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
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  12. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

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    In the meantime, bone broth will be of great help to both Amber and Charlie regardless of the current (or lack of) diagnosis. If there's irritation enough to be symptomatic, there's probably inflammation enough to be treated with bone broth whether it shows on an ultrasound yet or not.
     
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  13. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    No problem and you can hijack the thread all you need. It's all about sharing experiences, ideas and asking questions.

    Yup that was Charlie's poop too and multiple Vets who thought just like I did - more fiber. You know when the vet asks you during the visit "Do you have any questions or concerns?" Yup - every single visit this was on the list. This Vet read the files and couldn't believe how many times it was brought up.

    A severe infection in the Bladder and kidneys with ecoli. Lots of sediment. That last part shocked me as everything is super clean. On a scale of 1 -4 of blood in the urine - he was at a 4. 8 weeks of antibiotics + other stuff.


    Charlie had the same with the bloodwork. I read his blood work once though and that was not quite the case. There were some Kidney values that were high. 6 months later all was fine. I changed nothing. Nor was I told about the high values in the Kidneys.

    That's why I posted here for you - to see if there corolations between your fuzzy eater and mine.



    So they are doing the best guesses. That makes sense.

    XOXOXO

    Please yes update. I will be following this thread and Krista's too. There is another that just posted about possible IBD as well. It's like a kitty epidemic!

    I agree. Oddly enough my mom just dropped some off today and put some in the freezer as I have no clue how to make it. She even gave the kitties some bone marrow - that appeared to be a winner too.

    Bone broth treats inflammation in kitties?

    OXOXOXOX
     

  14. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    I picked up some bone broth yesterday! Went to the store and got all the goodies (Applaws toppers, baby food, goldfish crackers and yep even the Reddiwhip...) but she took one lick and didn't want more. I'll try again and see if she wants some another time though!

    Huh..I'm going to ask the vet about possible bladder infection, @FeralHearts . I wonder if its something that may only show up on a culture, which she hasn't had.

    Still no word, waiting for vet. BUT last night - oh man. Since the boiled chicken was a hit, I decided to put it on top of some beef pate last night. She. ate. it all. :hyper: I'm so happy and proud of her. I also gave her first B12 shot at home and it was very easy.

    Luckily, my partner eats meat so he helped with the chicken. I think he thawed a larger portion and then cut off a smaller piece, boiled it and then chopped it up once cooked. I don't mind doing meat if its for my cat, but I am always worried about bones like I don't know what to do with them. Can your mom help you with meat?
     
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  15. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    :-( The reddiwhip - or broth was rejected?

    Good thing we have a long list of weird to try lol :-)


    Worth asking. All of Charlie tests came back fine too and he had no indications.

    What sparked it was he attacked someone badly - and it wasn't me. Usually, it's only me ever. It worried me enough to post here and it was suggested a vet visit. I really thought it was going to be a waste of time and money. Boy, was I wrong.

    Stool, blood, urine - the works. I expected stool issues. I did not expect bladder/urine/ kidney infections. There were no crystals etc. They ask if I wanted it sent in for further testing for bacteria etc - I said yes. Glad I did.

    I'd be curious what the vet thinks for Amber since her stool seems to have the same issues as Charlies.


    Dontcha hate the waiting. *rips out hair*

    WOOT! Go Amber!!! :thumbsup: Eat. Eat. Eat little girl!

    The B12 should really help too.

    Very nice Partner :-) That was super kind of him!

    My mom is going to help me with it. I am so grateful. Mind you she said yes ----- after she laughed at me - a lot. :lol:
     

  16. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Oh the broth was rejected. But I didn't try mixing it in with the food. :doh2: So I'll have to try that. Its funny the things I overlook/don't think of sometimes when I'm already thinking of so many things about Amber... which is why this place is so helpful!

    Aww poor Charlie. I'm glad you figured out what was going on, though. Still waiting to hear back but I might ask about UTIs. She doesn't really have the classic symptoms, either, but I feel like anything is possible. I used to get strep throat 1-2 times a winter as a kid but would never get a fever and many Dr's had to be talked into culturing my throat only to find out that yes, when I get strep throat I don't get a fever. They were always surprised!

    Yes, I'm lucky to have a meat-eater in the house. I'm glad your mom is coming to help! I'm sure if my mom didn't live on the other side of the country, she'd be helping her grand-kitty, too! That's awesome - go mom!

    After our good couple of nights with the boiled chicken, that trick seems to have worn off as she wouldn't eat wet food the last two nights unless it was sprinkled with parmesean. But I did give her some baby chicken this morning and she liked that.
     
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  17. FeralHearts

    FeralHearts TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    All the cats in my house rejected the broth when I tried on it's own. They looked at me like "What is this nonsense hooman?" When I added to the food it was like I gave them kitty crack.

    Oh oh oh I thought of something else that helped one of my girls to eat. Cat nip. NOT KIDDING. Tiny amount on top of the food. Such an obvious thing it was a doh! moment for me.

    If it wasn't for this place - he'd have been in real trouble. It was a couple of kind souls here who suggested he go in and not only have poop tested but a urinalysis. Even though there was no reason to suspect it. I was ready to insist on the test regardless of what the vet said lol. I'm grateful they were here. In all honest - I give them all the credit as I truly believe they saved his life.

    It's worth the ask, in fact , it's worth very politely insisting if need be but that's my opinion.

    I'm lucky to have her and have her close. I feel very blessed.

    It's it the weirdest thing that Parmesan works? When kitties get picky - whatever works we do. From the bizarre to the weird to the WT&*. Love. It's all about love.

    I'm really glad she's eating something. That to me is always the most important thing... but man do they ever make it hard work sometimes!
     

  18. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Haha good to know its not just me that tried it that way with the broth.

    I have tried catnip as Amber is a HUGE catnip lover. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

    The last couple of days, I've been giving her a small helping of baby food chicken with Miralax in it to 1) get the Miralax into her (as the whole problem is )she needs to EAT the wet food to get the Miralax > moisture > poops) and 2) get some moist food in her. That has been going well, she really seems to like it a lot.

    We had a great night the other night - she ate an entire 1/4 can of NutriSource Lamb & Lamb Liver without ANYTHING on top. Just ate it all. I was so excited. But she has not done this again since. It was the first time I was trying that food with her and I thought we had a lucky winner. However, Amber has always been the kind of girl who eats a food once and will never eat it again.

    Anyway, after that, we had 2 days of no pooping and I was getting extremely worried until she finally went last night. It was a good reminder we need her to eat more wet food.

    Not much interest in her wet food the last couple days, even with parmesean, crunched goldfish crackers, crushed kibble, baby food on top. Literally she just licks the top off and leaves the rest... !

    Sigh. It's hard not to get frustrated...but I am trying to be patient, trying all the tricks but I feel like I'm running out of tricks/foods to try. I feel stuck in this battle of feeding kibble where she could get constipated vs. not feeding kibble where she could get hepatic lipadosis from beng one stubborn litlte kitty!

    Sometimes I just feel bad for doing this all to her. But I'm just trying to give her the best care I can.

    I went back to trying the wet food + kibble mix this morning for her normal dry food breakfast to see if that will force her to eat the wet as she tries to get all the kibbles. It seems like every time we take a step forward its two steps back...

    Still waiting on the vet to call, apparently they never got my previous records and its holding them up.
     
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  19. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

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    This sounds so frustrating. Have you tested for pancreatitis? Does she seem nauseated or just picky? I would keep offering that lamb with lamb liver if she ate that much of it. Krista is being fussy and so I sometimes have two different foods plated and left out for her and let her nibble from them. Every few hours I change out the plates when the food looks like it's getting a little too dry. I think as we get a few days out from the antibiotics, her appetite will get less dodgy. What seems to work well to get Krista eating is Tiki Cat Tuna with Pumpkin. I have been giving her a medicine portion (first with antibiotic, then with probiotics) but I've also been mixing the rest of the pouch into the plates she just nibbles from and she gets a lot further. Do I have a tuna addicted cat? Yeah, probably. But it got her through pancreatits and it will help right her gut and butt again. Especially if I can also sneak bone broth into it.
     

  20. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    I'm not sure if she's nauseated because she's happy to eat dry food. I'd think if she were nauseous, she wouldn't want to eat anything?

    She hasn't been vomiting as much.

    She did a FPL test in January that was negative, however, I think they can be false negatives? Her pancreas was normal on u/s. I do wonder if it could be low-lying chronic pancreatitis.

    But I'm almost feeling like she was doing better before we started all these tests and diet changes.

    She's never been a big wet food eater, though I introduced it as soon as we adopted her. Most of the time I could only get her to eat fish-based wet foods and sometimes shredded chicken.

    Its strange, even last time I brought her in for constipation a few years ago we tried appetite stimulants to get her eating more wet food, but even those didn't do much. She'd eat one big meal of wet food the first day then not touch it the next day, even though the mirtazipine was supposed to last 3 days.

    She does love tuna and I have some I got to try as well. I haven't reached for the Reddiwhip yet, either.
     

  21. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

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    I like the Tiki Cat Tuna with Pumpkin because it also has pumpkin. It's the only way Krista will eat pumpkin. And as I learned this past week, it's way more effective at disgusing medicine than straight tuna. Maybe add a Tiki Cat Tuna with Pumpkin portion to her diet. You could use that for the Miralax. You can also re-use the rest of the pouch to make her other wet foods more appealing until you find one she likes without bribes. The one thing I don't like about it is that it's very low in calories--like a third less than I would prefer. :( But it's high in moisture which would be very beneficial for her constipation.
     
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