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Ibd? Constipated Cat. After The Enema...

Discussion in 'Cat Health' started by sidneykitty, Jan 26, 2019.

  1. JazzyKitty

    JazzyKitty TCS Member Kitten

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    Sidney: I just realized I didn't quite answer your question. We have been dealing with this 4-5 years, but it took about one/two years to really work things out. Now as things come up we take a visit to her doctor and he may change up something. So we are in the management stage.

    After your comment about a success story, I looked up IBD prognosis. It sounds like something that cannot be cured, but that can be managed for a long time. I am always happy to share the things I did to manage this, if other IBD parents want to know.

    Hang in there, it is worth it! :)
     

  2. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    @Jojo&Tutu - historically, her poops have been dry and hard. Like sometimes little round turds. :( Lately, they've actually been improving. Another thing I noticed is sometimes before she'd get a bit of a swollen/bloated belly from time to time and she hasn't had that lately, either.

    @JazzyKitty - one year oh wow! Well done. I guess I'm partly stressing if we can't get her fully transitioned to this new diet in time, it'll turn into cancer... but yes, I know it can be managed, which is great. Thanks.
     

  3. JazzyKitty

    JazzyKitty TCS Member Kitten

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    Hi Sidney: regarding your mention of cancer. My kitty's doctor told me that he usually sees the IBD down the road turn into cancer. About three years ago he saw the beginning signs of cancer in her blood work. After we put her on the Hills Thyroid diet, her numbers got better. He said that she was further away from getting cancer! This past year the numbers went back to being bad. That's why I'm so concerned about this polyp that she developed in her ear, that is could be cancerous. She goes in tomorrow - I'll know more than.

    Hope this helps!
     

  4. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Right. I was thinking if managed it would just stay IBD. I'm mostly worried about it turning into cancer while we're trying to get her off chicken and such. I know cancer can be fast moving, but I guess I have to be hopeful that since the ultrasound didn't show anything, we've caught it early. Let me know how her check goes today with the polyp!

    I decided not to do the cisapride. Called the vet to cancel the Rx today. Knock on wood, Amber's been having great poops now the last couple of days. Who knows what it is that's helping. Maybe even the glucosamine?

    Last night, I managed to feed her 1/4 can of a 5.5 oz of lamb mixed with some baby food and continually topping it with the freeze dried rabbit. It took two hours and 3 go's of putting the bowl in front of her, but she licked the plate clean in the end! But I also heard her vomit in the night, which is the irst one she's done in weeks. :( I should have got up to check when I heard her, but I didn't, and this morning I couldn't actually find the vomit or hairball anywhere...

    I'd like to get her up to eating 1/2 5.5 oz can next. But I'll take the little victories. I'd like for her to eat the wet food without all the toppers, but again, I'll take what I can get. Do you guys think its ok if she eats wet food topped with freeze dried rabbit on a regular basis? I'm just thinking, what if I have to do this forever? At least its a high quality food, not like topping with Temptations which is what I used to do.

    I'm still adding some spoons of wet food to her dry kibble in her breakfast which I hope is doing something. hoping it helps her adjust. Maybe we'll get her eating more wet food someday... :/
     

  5. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

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    I like to powder up freeze-dried liver treats for topper bribes with Krista. But I can't give her too much because liver can loosen her stools. As long as the rabbit isn't rabbit liver, I don't see why you can't use that as a topper indefinitely. Forever is a long time in cat tastes. She may be over it next week. She might also appreciate some liver treats now and then precisely because it could loosen things up a little. But if you're going to give egg yolk powder, then give that a chance first before you put too many looseners in her.

    When you say you want her eating 1/2 a can, is that per day or per serving? Cats do better with small servings more frequently than a couple of large servings. Before all this recent stuff happened with Krista, I used her food journal to determine that 2 oz (56 g) was the ideal portion size for Krista. More than that caused her discomfort or she gave it back. So then it became a math problem of how many calories I want to feed her per day divided by the calories per gram (just take the Kcal/Kg ME value on the can and divide by 1000) divided by the meal size to arrive at how many feedings per day for a given food.
     

  6. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    That's definitely true. I'm happy to keep doing it if it gets her eating more wet food now. I guess I'm worried about her getting addicted to such things.

    I want her to eat 1/2 can per day. Right now, she's eating 1/4 cup Hill's z/d kibble and 1/4 of a can of lamb or beef. But that's not enough - it calculates up to 150-160cal/day. :( A couple spoonfuls of wet food are being added to the dry now. And that's not including any baby food or treats she's getting...

    I'd like her to be at 1/4 z/d kibble if we must continue the kibble and 1/2 can lamb or beef per day. That would put her at 190-200 cal/day.

    From my observations and records, she'll eat 1/8 of a big 5.5 oz can or 1/4 of a small 3oz can in one sitting if she eats it at all. So those are really small amounts. She's always been this way. Last night was a miracle she even ate 1/4 of the big can. I mean I can feed her 4x a day right now as I'm home, but once I finally get a job again, I can't see how it will be do-able.
     

  7. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

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    You don't have to feed her in equal intervals. Krista has an eating shift and a sleeping shift. Unfortunately they are backwards from my own. When she was eating on a schedule, she would get two dinners (6 or 7 pm and midnight) and two breakfasts (4am and 8am.) The stretch from 8am to 6 pm is her sleeping shift. I'm lucky if I can get her to eat one extra meal in this time.
     

  8. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Oh that's true. See how my common sense goes out the window when I'm worrying about my cat..?

    My partner and I have noticed some behavioral changes recently, too. She's keenly waking us up for breakfast again between 6-7am and been a lot more playful and initiating play more. We think these are both good things at least.
     
    daftcat75 purraised this.

  9. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Whoa so last night I offered Amber some Hound & Gatos beef and she seemed to really like it! It was definitely her preferred consistency. She ate 1/3 of a can!!! With very little fuss and toppings and me repeatedly setting the bowl down in front of her. Oh I was so proud!! Of course, it was the first time trying this food, so the true test is to see if she'll eat it again.

    And then she had a slightly too soft poop this morning (!!! what! that never happens...) so I guess I might have to reduce her Miralax dosing a bit until we get it just right. Could be from adding the glucosamine, too.
     

  10. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

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    Probably the glucosamine. I was giving Krista GlycoFlex Plus for a week and she had poop and soup the entire week. I really want her back on the stuff for how well she was moving that week but not at that cost. I've got blue and green-lipped mussels that I can powder up and mix into her food. But let's get the butt stable first. She hasn't had a non-soupy poop in almost two weeks. :(

    That's great news that you found a food Amber likes. Hopefully it treats her well on the transit and that it's just as popular on the next serving.
     

  11. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Yes, I was thinking the same. :( Poor Krista.. I hope her poops get better soon.

    Well, after Mon was good and Tues was very successful, last night was a huge fail with her wet food. :( I tried the Nutri Source Lamb she likes and the H&G beef, just wasn't into either. I topped with freeze dried rabbit, crushed kibble, Reddi-Whip, she might have eaten 1/8 of a can by the end with a lot of junk. But she would eat baby food beef. I just don't get it...how is that any different from cat food? :(

    Ever since we switched her food, she's lost weight and now I'm worrying about cancer... is that possible even though they saw nothing abnormal on the ultrasound? I guess anything is possible with cancer. My partner reasons with me, however, that she has not been eating as much as normal so we should continue to try feeding her more and seeing if she gains.

    Just feels like we moved forward again only to move back once more, but maybe I'm not being patient enough.
     

  12. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    I'm just so frustrated I don't know what else to do. I feel like I've tried literally everything. I have 3 leftover mirtazapine capsules from my old vet if I get desperate enough. It seems like she'll try anything once and not want it again. Before all this started, she mostly only ate fish wet food and she usually wanted a different flavor every night. Its pretty clear to me that when she does eat wet food, she has great poop.

    We've tried: Merrick Duck LID, Go! LID Duck, Natural Balance LID Duck, Identity Duck, Lotus Rabbit, Hill's z/d, Hound and Gatos lamb, NutriSource lamb, Hound and Gatos beef, Pure Vita beef

    She's seemed to like the last 4 the best, but won't eat them consistently. I skipped Instinct because of the clay, but maybe I should give it a try as well. I also tried: adding water, adding broth, heating it up, NOT heating it up, various combinations of wet foods/toppers/kibble.

    Toppers I've tried: parmesean cheese, baby food (chicken and beef), tuna, Applaws chicken and tuna toppers, goldfish crackers, Instinct rabbit toppers, Vital Essentials rabbit treats, ReddiWhip, whole kibble, crushed kibble, boiled chicken, Fortiflora, catnip

    Nothing really seems to stick and she still won't eat wet food on its own except the one time. Is feeding her with toppers even doing anything to help the IBD because she's still getting these odd things in her system? I just don't get what to do anymore. Am I being impatient?

    At what point do I ask if something else is going on? Does she have early kidney disease? Should we test her SDMA? Does she have hypertension? Should we test BP? These are all things I am thinking of and no one has suggested any of these things to me. I wish I could take her back to our old vet in Canada, I feel unsatisfied with the vets here in Oregon.

    Yet she will eat kibble! Am I doing something wrong? After reviewing Amber's records, the vet said she is not sure Amber has IBD. but she did not offer any alternative! Should I ask the vet, or is she just going to say yet again that "its fine if she just eats kibble if everything is working the way it should" - HUH! I thought the whole point was its NOT working the way it should!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019

  13. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    weights over the last few weeks:
    Jan 31 - 3.96 kg
    Feb 5 - 3.93 kg
    Feb 14 - 3.88 kg
    Feb 20 - 3.76 kg - this one is really concerning to me.

    early January she was 4.12.
     

  14. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

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    Start a food journal. What you fed, which meal, its reception, how much did she eat, how did it treat her, etc? Include bribes. I use a Google Sheet because I can color code things to make data entry quicker. So my food journal looks more like quantities, colors, and a quick note attached to each cell.

    Next, I find cats with too many choices get choosy. "If I reject this one, something different is coming." I'd feed the H&G repeatedly until that meal takes. Then work another one in. Use hunger to your advantage. If she refuses it one meal, let her go hungry until next. We're not starving her into fatty liver if she skips a meal.

    Anything can be an irritant. Even if IBD is not a diagnosis now, it is a process that builds over time if the conditions are right for it (if the gut is repeatedly irritated with inappropriate foods.) I would use freeze dried treats as toppers as you will know exactly what's going into them. Just go easy on freeze-dried liver treats if you don't want looser stools.

    If she'll eat her kibble, try FortiFlora as a topper which has the kibble taste. Or powder up her kibble and use that as a topper. You can also mix the kibble with the H&G and make her eat the good stuff to get to the kibble. Once this sticks, adjust the kibble to wet ratio.

    I think you are being too impatient. Try to work one or two canned foods only until one of them sticks. Maybe do A-B testing each week: do you prefer this one? or this one?

    If she's a kibble kitty, she may be used to having free access to food. She may not be rejecting the food but rejecting it at that moment. Any reason you can't just leave the plate out for her? I'll leave a plate out for Krista for three or four hours and she'll come back to it several times before I pick it back up.
     

  15. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Ha! My partner would agree with you I am being too impatient. That's 2 against 1 one now :) I'm just concerned about weight loss and calories and I'm probably hyper-fixating on it because I feel stressed.

    I'm keeping a food diary with similar kinds of notes, what works, what doesn't, etc. I could probably do better. I just really worry about her going hungry I guess.

    I'd tried feeding her smaller meal in the mid-afternoon, but that only resulted in her not finishing dinner that night. I find that actually feeding twice a day makes her more hungry. That's what I did Tuesday when she ate well. I'm also playing with her before feeding to stimulate appetite.

    Ok. Maybe I was trying too many things. One night I did offer her lamb and she turned her nose up at it but then ate beef when I offered it, so that's why I started trying a few varieties. I'm happy to stick with H&G beef and lamb.

    Fortiflora only worked once, but crushed kibble has worked well generally, though not last night. I left out her wet food topped with crushed kibble last night all night and she never touched it. Many times we leave the wet out and it goes untouched.

    She gets 1/4 cup kibble in the AM and usually its left out a few hours while she picks at it. I've been picking it up around lunch time so she doesn't fill up on kibble.

    Granted, for a week there we had reduced her kibble to try to increase her wet food but I don't think it did much to help and probably contributed to the weight loss...

    That's the other thing I'm worried about - giving her these foods to encourage her to eat wet, only going to irritate her and is going to make the problem worse? I'd like to reach a point where she doesn't need these and I'm not sure how long I should wait.

    Ok. we'll keep on keep on, try to be more patient!! Thanks for the advice and honest thoughts. :) I appreciate it. I guess one day of not eating the wet isn't bad if she'll eat it most other days.

    I asked the vet to send me her recent blood work just so I can see (and I like keeping her records) and her phosphorous, bilirubin and creatinine were all at the very lowest end of normal. I'm not sure if that means anything.

    BUT her SDMA was tested and it was fine, which is great. I hadn't realised they'd done her SDMA so I am happy with that. I always sort of thought she'd go the kidney failure route so I had sort of prepared myself for it but IBD I never expected!
     

  16. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

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    Sep 7, 2018
    I personally wouldn't bother with a midday meal. Try to get her eating well at morning and night. You can add a late night meal if you're concerned that twice a day isn't enough. But trying to feed a cat midday is like trying to feed you at 3 am. I give Krista small midday meals because she has weight to gain, and I won't feel bad if she doesn't touch them. A good cat feeding schedule might be 7 pm, 11pm, kibble on the overnight, 6am and 9am. Close up the kitchen at 9am and let her have the day to get hungry. That will also help with digestion and may help with constipation too. Hunger pains stimulate the peristaltic movement that propels everything along the path.
     
    sidneykitty purraised this.

  17. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    I think that's the plan! Once upon a time before all this, we used to feed her 7am, 5pm, 10pm.

    And to think when we brought her in early January, they said she was a pound overweight!! Well, not anymore.
     

  18. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    WELL Amber ate 1/2 can last night. Let's all appreciate the momentous occasion this is. I think that's the first time ever in her life. Of course it was topped with tuna, but we'll get there eventually. I hope. This time, I won't count on it happening again tonight :)

    My partner and I have decided she only likes to eat wet food every other day!
     

  19. daftcat75

    daftcat75 TCS Member Top Cat

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    Go Amber!

    Every other day is probably more than she was getting before, yes?
     

  20. sidneykitty

    sidneykitty Thread Starter TCS Member Alpha Cat

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    Yes, I think so! I couldn't believe how empty that bowl was this morning. :hyper:

    I bet it was the tuna... boy she loves that stuff. I wish we could find a novel something with that similar texture - shredded or a more real consistency. She seems to always like that better. The more real food like, the more she seems to like it.
     

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