I NEED HELP WITH INTRODUCTIONS

[elainerov]

Cilla is tough because she is not distracted by much and I can't get too close to her. Food isn't much a distraction. I've never been able to do that, I've tried everything I can think of. Chicken thigh, yummies, tuna, even people tuna. I'm thinking about a "clicker". It might be enough to distract her, without scaring her. Any thoughts?

There would be plenty of escape places for both. Sherry Spice has 2 bedrooms, one with a bed, so she can go under. Cilla would have access to the rest of the house. My guess would be Cilla would try to charge. Sherry Spice would definitely not charge. My guess is she would run, probably under the bed.

Cilla now sits at the gates, and cries, as though calling to see Sherry Spice. So far, Sherry Spice doesn't respond to that. I'm trying to encourage her to go to the gate when Cilla calls.

I'm going to try 1 gate and playing with Sherry Spice and see how Cilla reacts. She could if she wanted to easily get over 1 gate. But at least we would all have warning.

 

[elainerov]

Another good day... They were each about 2 inches from the gates on either side. I was about 5 feet away. One quick growl from Sherry Spice, until I told her it was ok. Then she stopped. No fat tails on either....

 

[calicosrspecial]

Yes, Cilla is tough to distract. I have never used a clicker but I know people use clickers for training. If you think it will distract and in a positive way then I would try. But always try to distract in a positive way. We usually use play or food or love things like that but with Cilla that is very difficult. You may want to try the clicker away from Sherry Spice at first just to make sure it is not taken as a negative by Cilla (so there is no negative association Cilla may make with the clicker and Sherry Spice).

Very good that that area has plenty of escape routes. I thought Cilla may charge. BUT since it is Sherry Spice's territory she may be inclined not to charge (at least that is my hope and why I am thinking about that area to get them together). Since it is very difficult to distract Cilla I have to think of a way for her to observe and not get "funny".

Does Sherry Spice go under the bed at all now? I don't want her hanging out under a bed or being chased under a bed. I would rather have her to go high to escape (safer for her and Cilla). I would like to block under the bed and get Sherry Spice to accept it before we get them together (actually any areas that are low and could be an area where she would be cornered or trapped).

How is Cilla's body language when she is crying for Sherry Spice? How is her tail? Any sense of aggression or defensiveness? It sounds positive. Let's hope I am right. But let me know your interpretation of how Cilla is acting towards Sherry Spice.

What was Cilla's reaction to Sherry Spice's growl? How exactly did the growl happen? I would like to have a few days of no growling etc before we get them together with no barrier. Did Sherry Spice look away after you distracted her? It sounds like Cilla behaved after the growl, that is good because it let's Sherry Spice know Cilla doesn't want to get aggressive (at least at that point). The more times they are without incident the more trust they will have between them.

Maybe wait a few more days before playing with Sherry Spice and seeing how Cilla responds. If you sense any negativity then stop. We want to make sure any interaction between them is as positive as possible. I worry that playing might cause Cilla to get anxious or nervous. What do you think how Cilla would react? If we think Sherry Spice wouldn't charge and Cilla might get excited by play maybe we should think about something else to distract Sherry Spice (like food).

I would like to get Sherry Spice and Cilla to be at that gate with no growling, no fast tail swishing, etc. And I want to see that they can be near each other but not focused totally on each other. I really want to see that Cilla can look away when Sherry Spice is there. And always watch the body language, how relaxed they are etc. We want them to be close and relaxed. Able to look away from each other instead of locked on each other.

If Cilla would charge how would we distract her? I am not sure the clicker would work. Do you have a big piece of cardboard?

I want to try to reduce the chance of Cilla charging if at all possible. Even if we can have them together for 30 seconds without a charge etc without a gate it would be success. Then we would slowly expand the time.

Let me know what you think. We want to try to make it as positive as possible. The goal is too associate with a positive experience so they are like "that cat is cool" so they don't feel the need to get defensive to protect themselves.

 

[elainerov]

Cilla watched me play with Sherry Spice. Just watched, I did not see anything that appeared to be anxious or aggressive. When Cilla calls for Sherry Spice, it's a different voice that I've heard when she was looking for the other cats that were here. So I'm pretty certain it's just that a "curious call". I don't see any tail swishing or anxiousness.
When Sherry Spice growled, I really didn't see too much of a reaction from Cilla. Of course, I would not open the gates completely if I hear any growling, but thought it was a good step that they were so close. Cilla does not look away.

Sherry Spice never goes under the bed, unless she is frightened.... but I she is getting better and better about the door bell ringing, gardeners, etc. I'm only guessing she would head for under the bed, because when Cilla did go after her that time, that's where she went (there's not much room under the bed, but didn't want to block her out completely if she felt safe.

As for if Cilla goes after her, I would be "armed" with a pillow. When they did have there bad encounter that one time, all I did was wave the pillow and it was enough to distract and cause Cilla to run away. I could always toss the pillow, but the with the one bad encounter I didn't have to go that far.

I don't think anyone is ready to open the gates tomorrow. But I am seeing positive signs. Cilla has, so far, never looked away.

I was excited today, that they were so close to gates together.... but I do know if Sherry Spice runs, Cilla will definitely take chase. So I know that's not what I want.

Sherry Spice, as I've said does have her tall tree, but doesn't use it that much anymore. Her preference is on the bed or in the window (she's pretty nosy). If she's on the bed, Cilla can't see her. Same with in the window.

Also I do have a big scratch post in the common area, that both use. Sherry-Spice loves to play around it. She kicks it, and we play a lot with the laser light around the post. Cilla scratches on it and sniffs it, and doesn't seem bothered by it (it was Cillas first) Cilla has a condo, Sherry-Spice never goes near that, and Sherry Spice has a condo she uses mostly as a scratch post.
Our house is virtually a cats "Disneyland". Paper bags, cardboard made into tents - boxes, one large one with a cork in it, one smaller one with wrapping paper and toys hidden it. large brown packing paper, made into tents and houses.... lots for them to do! Plus a cat tunnel... etc. Sherry Spice loves them all. Cilla, I know plays with toys, though I never see her, I see the toys moved and during the night I hear her in the bags and paper. (but never in front of us)

 

[calicosrspecial]

We are seeing a lot of positives.

It is great that Cilla was well behaved while Sherry Spice played.

I would like to see Cilla look away. That would tell me see has more trust towards Sherry Spice. (No cat would look away from a predator). So that would be huge if she would take her eyes off Sherry Spice.

Yes, we don't want Sherry Spice to act like prey (running away). We want to get her more confident and trusting.

Great that Sherry Spice is high in the world. I think I probably would block off under the bed. (Well before they are together without a barrier so she knows it is closed off). Just in case Cilla would follow under the bed because the escape routes would be limited. It is good that you can distract Cilla with a pillow if needed.

I would like to see Cilla look away for a few days before giving them supervised access. It is great that they can be so close to each other. But I would like them to look away when they are not eating. Please keep feeding by the gate as well.

Great on the scratching post and the toys. That helps a lot and allows them to build confidence and associate the other's scent with something positive.

I think we are really close, a few loose ends to tie off and we'll be ready to get them together. Now I do have an issue I will be gone for 2 weeks in a little over a week and will not have access to a computer.

 

[elainerov]

I've been doing the same every day with 1 gate and playing with Sherry-Spice. I'm now seeing that Sherry-Spice will sit on her condo with her back to Cilla. I am starting to see Cilla look away on occasion. I've also discovered that squishing a "scrunchy ball" makes enough noise to distract Cilla from staring without scaring her.

I think I have a fairly good handle on what to do and an understanding of neither of them acting as prey.

I don't think the time is right for no gates yet, but if this progresses as it has, maybe soon.

If you will be gone for 2 weeks I hope it is for enjoyment. Be safe.... and thank you again!

 

[calicosrspecial]

GREAT!! I love that Cilla is looking away. The more they realize the other is not a threat and the more they associate the other cat with good things and the more comfortable they are together the more likely they will get along without the gates. When you do decide to get them together just start off with small moments maximizing the positives and minimizing the negatives and try to lengthen the time. The key really is to make it as positive experience as possible (non-threatening).

Just take your time, you'll know when the time is right.

I will be back on June 18 but will be around until Thursday night. Thank you for the best wishes.

You are very welcome, I am happy to help. I think you are very close, keep up the great work!!

 

[elainerov]

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[elainerov]

GREAT!! I love that Cilla is looking away. The more they realize the other is not a threat and the more they associate the other cat with good things and the more comfortable they are together the more likely they will get along without the gates. When you do decide to get them together just start off with small moments maximizing the positives and minimizing the negatives and try to lengthen the time. The key really is to make it as positive experience as possible (non-threatening).

Just take your time, you'll know when the time is right.

I will be back on June 18 but will be around until Thursday night. Thank you for the best wishes.

You are very welcome, I am happy to help. I think you are very close, keep up the great work!!

 

[elainerov]

GREAT!! I love that Cilla is looking away. The more they realize the other is not a threat and the more they associate the other cat with good things and the more comfortable they are together the more likely they will get along without the gates. When you do decide to get them together just start off with small moments maximizing the positives and minimizing the negatives and try to lengthen the time. The key really is to make it as positive experience as possible (non-threatening).

Just take your time, you'll know when the time is right.

I will be back on June 18 but will be around until Thursday night. Thank you for the best wishes.

You are very welcome, I am happy to help. I think you are very close, keep up the great work!!

 

[elainerov]

Cilla has been laying on her side reaching under the gate (gently) but her tail is fat. Sherry-Spice is within a foot of the gate. What do you think Cilla is saying? Sherry-Spice just sat and looked. However, at times, Sherry-Spice does growl. (maybe better than running and hiding?)

 

[elainerov]

GREAT!! I love that Cilla is looking away. The more they realize the other is not a threat and the more they associate the other cat with good things and the more comfortable they are together the more likely they will get along without the gates. When you do decide to get them together just start off with small moments maximizing the positives and minimizing the negatives and try to lengthen the time. The key really is to make it as positive experience as possible (non-threatening).

Just take your time, you'll know when the time is right.

I will be back on June 18 but will be around until Thursday night. Thank you for the best wishes.

You are very welcome, I am happy to help. I think you are very close, keep up the great work!!

 

[calicosrspecial]

Hello,

I had to stay one extra week. ( Anyway I am back now.

How have things been going?

It is very good that Cilla is reaching under the gate (as long as it is slow and not aggressive) and that Sherry Spice sits there (feels not threat).

BUT I don't like that she is still growling BUT if it is only growling it isn't too bad. Growling with an aggressive action would be more worrying.

I am back so I hope we can converse and see where things stand.

Will be looking.

 

[elainerov]

Glad you are back. I hope all is well.
I'm feeling mixed messages from Cilla, she reaches in the gate slow and doesn't seem aggressive, but her tail is fat. This morning she reached in and touched Sherry-Spice while she was eating. Cilla reached in very slowly, but her tail was "half fat" (if that makes sense). Sherry-Spice had her back to her and jumped away when she was touched (startled).
Sherry-Spice seems unaware of Cilla frequently. She is a sweet loving cat, but not the smartest cat I've ever had. She is a bit on the clumsy side too. It adds at my dilemma of how to get them together.
I have to give you a little footnote: I got a call from "My Cat From Hell". Maybe to be on the show. We'll see....

 

[calicosrspecial]

Thank you. Glad to be back.

Is Cilla sitting when she reaches in? Or on her side? When a cat exposes their belly that is a sign of trust. HUGE positive. So I take it that when Cilla is on her side facing Sherry Spice there is a trust building which is great. I can't make the fat tail either. The reaching in slowly is a friendly gesture. I take it more as a positive.

It is also a positive that Sherry Spice had her back to Cilla. If a cat is afraid they tend not to be vulnerable (turn their back, look away etc). Now the gate is a reason for the trust most likely but it is still a positive.

I actually think it is a positive that Sherry Spice is unaware. There must be some level of trust there. Cats are usually very careful about being vulnerable so the unawareness I take as a sign of a secure feeling. I think that is really good.

I think the key really is Cilla. We need Sherry Spice to be confident and to hold her ground and give off that vibe of coolness and non-threatening. Usually cats attack in order to prevent from being attacked. It is a defense mechanism. When a cat is confident and secure they are less likely to attack (or be attacked).

If Cilla is looking away, relaxing and not focused on Sherry Spice then we will be in a good place. Is Cilla responding at all to any attempts to distract?

Has Sherry Spice shown any aggression? Other than growling? I would like to have the growling stop. If possible try to reassure Sherry Spice and try to change a potential negative (hissing) into a non-event.

Yikes. I think we are really close. When will they get back to you on the show? I am guessing they would have a producer come out and assess the situation. Let me know how you would like to proceed. I think we are really close to getting them together but I am happy to proceed at your pace.

Have you done any site swapping since I left? Also scent swapping?

Is Cilla acting normal in every day life? Not avoiding any areas, doing her thing etc? Still not totally focused on Sherry Spice?

Have you started to try to expand Sherry Spice's territory with things with her scent on them? Beds, scratching posts, etc? Just to get her to expand her ownership?

Overall I am very encouraged where we are. Just let me know some of the details and how you would like to proceed.

You are doing a great job!! This is not an easy situation given Cilla but you have done extremely well!!

 

[elainerov]

Sherry-Spice, in general, has not shown any aggression. Once or twice a growl, but in general-- no. I would say more cautious than anything, she doesn't completely hide. At times they are nose to nose at the gates, no aggression on either side. At times Sherry-Spice is reluctant and will peak around the corner. Sherry-Spice has 4 or more hours a day with full access to the house. She is gradually starting to go into the family room (the room Cilla spends most of her time) Sherry-Spice will not go into the master bedroom (Cilla other place). Last night I put her in there and she sort of froze.

Sherry-Spice is very cautious. Even when I open the gates, she waits now for me to tell her it's ok before she ventures out of her area.

What I see about Cilla, is she is recoiling a bit. She seems to spend a lot of time in a favorite cat bed in the family room and not always at the gates like she was before. I'm not sure if that's good or not. I have not had Cilla in Sherry-Spices area in awhile, but as I said, in the common area, Cillas and Sherry-Spices scent is all over. They both use a common scratch post and a paper bag (their favorite).

When Cilla does reach through the gate, I have seen her on her side. Gentle reaching. The last encounter, she was sitting at the gate and reached in gentle and slow. Sometimes she will sit at the gate and "cry" - I take that as calling for Sherry-Spice. Most times if Cilla is at the gate and I call for Sherry-Spice, then Cilla will respond with a cry after my call.

When Sherry-Spice is out in the common area, I always check to be sure Cilla - when locked behind gates - is not anxious. If she is. I put Sherry-Spice away and let Cilla out.

As for the show, they said a producer would call me if interested. So far I haven't heard. They said they would be filming in my area end of Sept. But that puts it a year since I got Sherry-Spice and my wish is to proceed with getting these 2 girls together, without putting any hopes into the show. If and when the show happens I'm sure there would still be issues even if they had a little time together. So onward, as best we can.

This is long, but I hope it gets you up to speed.....

 

[calicosrspecial]

It is great that Sherry Spice has more access to the house. And also no aggression for the most part. Let Sherry Spice go at her pace, you can encourage her with treats or play or something positive but try not to "force" her into an area.

It is very common for her to be cautious as it is new territory. The more she is out without incident the more confident she will become.

I think it is a positive that Cilla is not at the gate always. As long as she is acting normal, walking the same way, not avoiding any areas etc. Because that means she is comfortable with Sherry Spice. So she knows she is there but doesn't have to "watch" her. I take it as a positive.

It is really positive that Cilla is on her side reaching in. No cat would become vulnerable to another cat they don't trust. Exposing their belly is very vulnerable. Cilla is trusting more. GREAT.

Great that you always try to make sure Cilla is as positive as possible when Sherry Spice is in the common area. Again trying to make it as positive as possible. Typically we would give treats or play or pet the other cat but with Cilla that isn't possible. So we have to do whatever we can to make it as pleasant as possible for Cilla.

Ok, sounds good on moving forward. I think we are really close. We'll want them to meet in the common area and start with short meetings. Even if we get them together for a minute as long as it is positive it is great. We'll have to figure out how to coordinate that. We don't want to surprise either, we want to make it as positive and non-threatening as possible. We want them to see each other but to not focus on each other so we need to perfect the art of distraction for each of them.

Where are you at in distracting Cilla? How confident are you?

I want Sherry Spice to be confident so when they meet she doesn't act like prey and run. I would love for her to be relaxed and be like "oh yeah, that's Cilla, she's cool" when they meet. She sounds a bit short still right now but how do you see her regarding how confident she is?

And cats take on our emotions so it is really important to stay as calm and confident as possible. To feel like this is no big deal, just two friends getting together. If they are together and we can get them to look away it is a positive. Then we build the time they spend without a barrier. We always want to watch their body language, make sure they are confident and comfortable and if not try to do something to ease their tension.

How do you feel about where they are at right now? I have a picture in my head but want to make sure I have an accurate picture. Before I left I thought we were really close and I feel closer now. But I want to make sure that feeling is accurate.

We'll have to figure out how to coax (or have) Cilla in the room already and then bring in Sherry Spice (or vice versa). Can Sherry Spice be held safely? Would Sherry Spice walk into the room or would she run? We want to try to make it as not threatening as possible. We may have to do the introduction without the gates by Sherry Spice's room. That may be the best place. A little less than ideal but it could achieve our objective.

If I was the Producer I would take this on because I think it would be easy for them to have a success story. You really have done a great job!!

Please let me know on the questions and when you think we should try to get them together and where and how. And please never apologize for length, your post was great, extremely helpful!!

 

[elainerov]

Maybe I need to explain more, Sherry-Spice has been going into the common area, since I've had her. Sometimes, I feel she is a bit uncomfortable, because she is always VERY close to me. I take that as a bit insecure still. Sometimes she plays endlessly in the common area, sometimes not. But I do know she has days when she feels better than others. It's been terribly hot and dry (8% humidity, 108 degrees) here of late and I think that affects her, though we have air conditioning. I've starting using a humidifier for her. I think it helps.
I'm still doing my exercise with them (only one gate up and playing with Sherry-Spice) frequently Sherry Spice is reluctant. I am always calm, always encouraging and always praising to both.

Cilla I can sometimes distract - a "scrunchy" cat ball, making noise, seems to work, most times. I don't want to scare her or make her run away (there's a fine line with her). '

The hard part with Cilla, is when she is in the common area, she is at the gate.

We are still doing the eating at the gate, actually that's when Cilla reached through the gate, when Sherry Spice was eating. I still can't get them to eat at the gate at the same time, or rarely, but Cilla has come to expect her food at the gate.

I definitely don't want any sneak attacks. One day last week, Cilla jumped the gate from where she was locked in while Sherry Spice was in the common area. I managed to scoop up Sherry Spice before she even knew what was happening. I did not see that Cilla was looking to get to Sherry Spice, it was more that she was not happy being locked in and just wanted out.

Sherry Spice is very easy to handle. I can carry her, cut her nails, clean her ears - whatever. She is soooo easy.

I do see progress. I'm seeing some "desensitizing" especially with Cilla. Sometimes I get the feeling she is really wanting to be friends. Sherry Spice still reluctant.

 

[pearl99]

I've been reading this thread with great interest soaking up all the great advice- I have a cat similar to Cilla and am introducing a new kitty (a year old and very friendly) into the household (after my daughter moved to her own place with her kitty.) As far as treats, my resident cat is not very food motivated (doesn't go for treats and canned cat food) and was semiferal. I've found that he loves Fish Flakes and liver. Not sure if Cilla has been tried with those. With the liver I froze it and shave off bits to feed at the door (whichever side he is on) where I do the room swapping, Waffles easily eats that at the door. I give them several times per day to get the food/good thing association with the other kitty. I have no other advice, just the treat idea!

Adding- the Fish Flakes I get are Cat-Man-Doo brand, for cats; not the things tropical fish are fed

 

[elainerov]

I've been reading this thread with great interest soaking up all the great advice- I have a cat similar to Cilla and am introducing a new kitty (a year old and very friendly) into the household (after my daughter moved to her own place with her kitty.) As far as treats, my resident cat is not very food motivated (doesn't go for treats and canned cat food) and was semiferal. I've found that he loves Fish Flakes and liver. Not sure if Cilla has been tried with those. With the liver I froze it and shave off bits to feed at the door (whichever side he is on) where I do the room swapping, Waffles easily eats that at the door. I give them several times per day to get the food/good thing association with the other kitty. I have no other advice, just the treat idea!

Adding- the Fish Flakes I get are Cat-Man-Doo brand, for cats; not the things tropical fish are fed