i know i'm going to get murdered for this one...

[kluchetta]

There are some members that have had good results with Buspar. (I think it's an antidepressant.) I wouldn't normally jump to drugs, but KushMama has obviously tried a LOT of things. Things that normally would help. I think it does make it worse that there are three of them. (Kind of like my kids, they are 12 months apart and they ganged up a lot to do stuff that a single child would never think of LOL.)

Also the feliway and rescue remedy. I really hope that works.....oh, and the buspar is not expensive at all, if I remember correctly.

 

[stealthkitty]

KushMama, have you tried crating them? I know there are people who have strong feelings about that, but it can help--especially since you don't have a room where they can be kept. A family member of mine used to be a veterinary technician (she continued her education and now works in the maternity ward at a hospital) and she uses a large crate for her own cats. She used to come home to a messed up house too. The two cats would even get into places that no one imagined they could reach; so, now they go into a large, wire-frame dog crate at night and at other times when no one is there to supervise them. They don't mind at all. No yowling, escape attempts, pouting, nothing. She makes sure they are comfortable in there, and now everyone is happy. Maybe it would help in your case too.

 

[minka]

My best advice for you is that if you can't handle 3 crazy cats and a daughter all over the house, cut down to two or one. And I say this with sympathy, I really do.
Kush is your baby. Do not declaw her, no matter what. Don't punish her for life because the addition of two crazies has made yours chaos.

Otto and Willowly have given you wonderful reasons why *not* to do this. It won't stop them from jumping, it won't stop them from knocking anything over, and all it would take was one bite to your daughter to have them all shipped out by your husband.

The counters and other areas *have* to be covered with upside down plastic mats (the kind with points) and all other areas have to sprayed with bitter apple. Every single time a cat does something naughty they have to be removed. It doesn't matter if it's twenty times in a row. When my cat jumps on the counter, he gets yelled at and a swift unceremonious push. Sometimes I have to cover surfaces with lint roller tape to get the point across.

It doesn't matter how many scratching posts they have if they don't like or use them. You need to teach them how and praise them unendlessly. The kind that seems to appeal the most is corrugated cardboard. I personally buy the Cat Scratch Lounge and then my cat tree has more cardboard and a sisal post.


Please please PLEASE don't declaw them. You will only live with regret.....

 

[otto]

The thing about trying "a lot of things" is nothing is going to be a quick fix. Any and all of these are good ideas. But none of them are going to be effective in a day, or a week, or even a month. Improvements, and training cats takes time.

A lot of time. Consistency. Patience. Calmness.

One can't try one thing one week, decide it isn't working, then try something else the next week. It just doesn't work that way. Changes have to be put in place, and kept in place, and then you give it months before you can hope to see results. And there will be progress and then back steps, then more progress.

It all takes a lot of time. It took 18 months for my Mazy cat to become even a little socialized. And she was surrounded by other cats exhibiting appropriate behavior. And that was just me and the other, adult, cats. None working her up, like these cats are doing for one another. No toddler egging them on. And now, 8 years later, she still is making improvements. I have a friend who rescued a cat with really serious issues. He's been with her almost 2 years. The other night he jumped up on her bed and let her pet him. For the first time, ever.

Those three cats can be trained, but it is going to take a lot of work, dedication, patience, time and above all, consistency. You can't just try one thing after another. You have to formulate your plan, and stick to it, and expect that it will take a lot of time and effort.

 

[pippapippa]

I know you said you play with them, but have you tried anything other than a laser? Something like Da Bird? They may not be getting enough playtime, even if it seems like it. Do they get to the point where they pant a little bit? 

 

[minka]

I know you said you play with them, but have you tried anything other than a laser? Something like Da Bird? They may not be getting enough playtime, even if it seems like it. Do they get to the point where they pant a little bit? 

Yea, if they aren't getting tired, it won't do much good.
:nod:

 

[dejolane]

How long do they last per cat ?

dejolane

 

[drbobcat]

You were brave to pose this question on a cat forum.  Don't read my post if you won't allow me to speak my mind.   I'm only surprised that some of the posters actually support this barbaric practice.  At my shelter, if we sense that a potential adopter would declaw, we would NOT adopt.  Naturally, we never know for sure, but we have our little interview tricks!  Declawing is maiming.  Please do not pay any attention to the "I have never had a problem with my declawed cats" nonsense.  Of course, some cats will do fine without their toes, but many won't.  I guess I'll be brave too.  Please give your kittens away before you declaw them.  In fact, a 20-month old is much too young to be around young kittens.  Pay attention to the posts referring to methods for discouraging your kittens from attacking your furniture.  Double-sided tape, sprays, and claw covers all work very well.  Remember that cats respond best to positive reinforcement.  Place scratching posts and pads next to your distressed ftell your urniture and use treats and toys to encourage them to use the acceptable objects.  DO NOT let your daughter near the kittens.  I know that's harsh, but the toddler and the kittens can be stressed out badly by each other.  If none of this is feasible, get rid of the kittens.  And have some words with your vet.
 

 

[GoldyCat]

I'm getting pretty good at keeping kush in. I used to try walking her, I would try taking her stick toys and dangling them so she would walk, hers laser; anything and she wouldn't have it. When she is on the harness and leash or when she's on the harness and long light lead I bought her for the porch...she runs back inside. But if she doesn't have the harness on she runs back outside. I've tested this too. She's tried getting out so I put her harness on and took her out and she went right back in. (The door open the entire time) she stood there wanting nothing to do with being outside...the minute I took her out of the harness she tried to bolt to go back out. And she did this a few times that I tried this. She's too smart is the problem.

Have you tried leaving the harness on her when she's in the house? Other than running back inside, how does she act with the harness on? It might work as a way to calm her, unless she goes nuts trying to get out of it. One of my cats turns into a super Houdini, but most of them just lay down when I put a harness on them.

I've also heard of a calming jacket. Don't remember exactly what it's called, but I'll try to find the link.

ETA: Here it is. It's called a Thundershirt. It's gotten raves from some of our members who use it for giving meds and trimming claws on cats that are usually impossible to handle. They are pretty expensive, but not as much as a new couch and they do have a money-back guarantee.

 

[minka]

Thundershirt sounds like a great idea for clipping their claws OR even getting SoftPaws on them!
:nod:

 

[andrya]

The thing about trying "a lot of things" is nothing is going to be a quick fix. Any and all of these are good ideas. But none of them are going to be effective in a day, or a week, or even a month. Improvements, and training cats takes time.
A lot of time. Consistency. Patience. Calmness.
One can't try one thing one week, decide it isn't working, then try something else the next week. It just doesn't work that way. Changes have to be put in place, and kept in place, and then you give it months before you can hope to see results. And there will be progress and then back steps, then more progress.
It all takes a lot of time. It took 18 months for my Mazy cat to become even a little socialized. And she was surrounded by other cats exhibiting appropriate behavior. And that was just me and the other, adult, cats. None working her up, like these cats are doing for one another. No toddler egging them on. And now, 8 years later, she still is making improvements. I have a friend who rescued a cat with really serious issues. He's been with her almost 2 years. The other night he jumped up on her bed and let her pet him. For the first time, ever.
Those three cats can be trained, but it is going to take a lot of work, dedication, patience, time and above all, consistency. You can't just try one thing after another. You have to formulate your plan, and stick to it, and expect that it will take a lot of time and effort.

l'm going to throw my 2 cents in and say this post above ^ is how it has to be to keep all those pets in a small place.

This part ... "A lot of time. Consistency. Patience. Calmness."  ... is the short version. l don't mean to sound judgemental (l've been in a similar situation before, with 2 cats and a dog, so l feel tons of empathy) but l could feel the stress in your post. lf you find yourself yelling or showing frustration at everything they do, it is feeding their excitement and teaching them how life is at your house. l think Otto's "calmness" statement is the absolute first place to start. lf everything you teach them is done quietly and calmly, they will soon learn the difference if you ever say a loud NO.

 

[ln6271]

It does sound like perhaps three cats is just too many for you right now with everything else you've got going on. Is there a cat rescue near you that you could contact? If they could take two of your kitties into foster homes, the foster people could work on some of the behavioral issues and likely get them placed in other homes. It is totally possible the cats themselves are stressed and acting out accordingly. Finding another home for two of your cats would ease the stress on the remaining kitty, yourself, and your daughter.

 

[jennyr]

You were brave to pose this question on a cat forum.  Don't read my post if you won't allow me to speak my mind.   I'm only surprised that some of the posters actually support this barbaric practice.  At my shelter, if we sense that a potential adopter would declaw, we would NOT adopt.  Naturally, we never know for sure, but we have our little interview tricks!  Declawing is maiming.  Please do not pay any attention to the "I have never had a problem with my declawed cats" nonsense.  Of course, some cats will do fine without their toes, but many won't.  I guess I'll be brave too.  Please give your kittens away before you declaw them.  In fact, a 20-month old is much too young to be around young kittens.  Pay attention to the posts referring to methods for discouraging your kittens from attacking your furniture.  Double-sided tape, sprays, and claw covers all work very well.  Remember that cats respond best to positive reinforcement.  Place scratching posts and pads next to your distressed ftell your urniture and use treats and toys to encourage them to use the acceptable objects.  DO NOT let your daughter near the kittens.  I know that's harsh, but the toddler and the kittens can be stressed out badly by each other.  If none of this is feasible, get rid of the kittens.  And have some words with your vet.

 

Sorry to be long in answering this post, but Christmas intervened and I think there are some points here that need addressing. First of all, although TCS is strongly committed to an anti-declaw policy and by signing up to the Site members are agreeing to this, the subject does come up with great regularity, from new members or others who have been brought up or lived with declawed cats, and who see it as the norm. In many countries the practice is now illegal, but many vets, in the USA particularly, still routinely offer the surgery to cat and kitten owners though more shelters and vets are actively against it, as you state above.. But some owners, in this environment, are driven to consider it when their cat's behaviour gets out of control.

In these cases, TCS would much rather the owner explained the problem and asked the relevant questions openly here, rather than hide the situation or only get one side of the argument from a possibly self-motivated vet. It is only by rationally explaining the procedure and the possible consequences that we can educate owners and spread the message. This would be a very poor Cat Forum if we prevented active responsible debate on this and other controversial issues, and it is only by regularly allowing such debate that new members can learn. When posting, and when reading replies to our posts, we must always remember that many people will read them, not just those we may be immediately addressing.

What we never allow is personal attack, and any posts that are rude or use bad language to put a point across will be edited or removed. Attack the opinion, not the poster. And sometimes owners do need a wake-up call to realise that there are options they may not have considered.

 

[drbobcat]

I'm perplexed by this reply.  I don't regard anything in my post to be a "personal" attack.  All I wanted to do was to help the original poster.  I wasn't even trying to jolt someone awake.  I have found that most of the posters on this site are highly responsible, intelligent pet guardians who ask good questions.  All I wanted to do was add to the discussion.
 

 

[huyi]

i think the OP needs to have boundaries when it comes to your furniture, letting them climb on the counter and stove is asking for trouble, say if you had hot cooked food on there what do you think will happen to the cats? be more firm with them and tell them NO, move them away from the areas that they are more destructive. 

and please go to a professional to get their nails trimmed, if they can rip a curtain apart and hurt your daughter like that their claws are not cut properly at all! my cats claws are good because when he play fight with my legs i don't feel anything, that is when i know i cut his claws back good.

you may also need to re-train your cats to get used to the idea of using a scratching post on the cat tree, it's not a easy process though.

 

[nekochan]

Just to warn you, if you get them declawed they may resort to biting instead.

If you are willing to try other things, a few suggestions:

-For the furniture, have you tried tinfoil, or the covers/blankets made for keeping pets off which have a foil side? Like this: http://www.clawsnpaws.biz/Ourproduct.html

-Have you tried different types of chew deterrents? I had a cat who loved the taste of Bitter Apple but there are many different varieties of sprays and creams on the market so just because one type doesn't work does not mean none of them will.

-Have you tried Ssscat spray? It is a compressed air canister with a motion sensor, you place it where you don't want the cats going, and when they come within range of the sensor it triggers a spray of compressed air which makes a loud/sudden hissing noise. You could put it by the furniture, on counters, next to the stove, or near the windows with curtains they destroy. The only issue with this is that if its a high traffic area you will need to face the motion sensor away from where people are walking or they will end up setting it off all the time, and you would need to turn it off or turn the sensor away when you are going to be in range of the sensors to avoid setting it off. I've found this very effective, after a few triggers the cats stay away from the area.

-There are some types of mats, which you place on surfaces where you dont want the cats to go. One type has rubber nubs that are not comfortable to walk on, called an X Mat. Then there is the Scat Mat which is electronic, if they walk on it, the mat sends off a static charge (I don't like these myself, but if you are at your wit's end it may be something you may try.) My brother had one of these but the Maine Coon would actually take naps on it, I think the static could not get through her thick coat or fur-padded paws.

-Have you looked into having a vet or groomer apply the Soft Claws nail caps? I know my vet does this regularly for a few clients. The vets also have various bitter products that may work better to keep them from chewing off the caps.

-For the cabinets you could put on child locks.

-For the windows, they do make claw-proof screening that you can replace your screen with.

I would also be sure to have a lot of different cat scratching materials and toys around for them, make sure to have a variety such as cardboard, sisal, carpet, other, and both vertical and horizontal types. You can put toys, treats or catnip (or catnip spray) on them to make them more attractive to the cats and praise, pet, and play with them when they go on or near the scratching posts.

 

[stealthkitty]

@DrBobCat: I don't think the counsel in the post was directed at you; if you had been in violation of the things mentioned, your post would have been edited or removed, not held up as a bad example. I'm not sure why yours was quoted; but it seemed like a perfectly thoughtful and honest reply to me.

 

[kushmama89]

Sorry to take so long to respond. With Christmas and all the craziness going on I haven't had time to get on and read through the posts let alone answer. It's ok, I know everyone is just giving their opinions and wants whats best for the cats. As do I, or I never would have posted in the first place. Thanks for all the ideas, and I'm compiling a list of things to try. I DID manage to clip ALL their nails while they were sleeping

41pmPGgVnaL.jpg

• kushmama89
• Dec 27, 2012

and i'm going to look into covers for the furniture. The vet told me awhile ago to try giving them children's benadryl (they told me specific dosage, cant remember now) to kind of calm them to cut their nails. haha ya right...just made things worse because they HATED it, foaming at the mouth (vet also said this would happen, supposed natural reaction) and then they wouldnt come near me and it didnt 'sedate' them at all! BUT...it got me thinking...since they're constantly getting up on my counters and in the sink and drinking the sink water (they have water bowls upstairs and downstairs fresh daily always filled and the water in the sink is usually soapy because between guests, me and my daughter and cleaning stuff it just is so i worry about that) i decided to make sure the water in the sink was completely clean but i added just a DROP of childrens benadryl to the water (much less than the vet told me to give them to cut their nails) and they havent been up on the sink since they tasted it. I wasn't sure just the drop in the water would work but I guess theyre really sensitive. Hopefully they stay off now.

As for them wanting to go outside...I let them lastnight. I finally got fed up and put a harness on puta first because i figured she would be easiest to 'break' of the habit. I took her out on the porch and she instantly darted back inside. (its been snowing and cold here...theres about 2 inches of snow on my porch and 3 out in my yard). So then I took Kush out. She was a little more stubborn. She saw the dog running around so she decided she still wanted to go out so she went down the steps and out into the yard. She sat out there for about 15 minutes before she started licking her paws and shaking (i felt horrible, please dont get me wrong...but i did not force her out there. shes gone out on the harness before and ran back inside so she knows she can go back in). At this point i took a few steps back toward the house but she wouldnt budge so i dropped the leash and left her and walked up the steps. The dog came inside and finally she ran up the steps and into the house. After about 10 minutes I opened the door (i had taken the harness off of her by this point) and just left it open, told her if she wanted to go, then go. She sat there and stared at it then looked up at me like i was crazy lol.

So far today they showed a little interest. I left the door open for awhile and kush did walk up to it slowly but she didnt bolt like she usually does, so i might do it again. I'd rather do it with her on the harness then her get out by herself and not come back and freeze to death.

And my daughter loves the cats and the cats love her? The only time there are any problems between them are when there is food involved. The whole reason I picked the cats that I did was because they were following my daughter around and actually picked HER. If I would confine them they are LOUD and obnoxious. My daughter hugs them and kisses them and calls them by name and they come to her. But when she has food, it's a whole different story, there is tension and the whole atmospher changes. I can't put my daughter in a box everytime she eats and its really hard to round up 3 cats everytime she eats or has a snack.  They're just GREEDY. They will growl at me and sometimes snap AS IM PUTTING WET FOOD IN THEIR BOWL because they're trying to eat it as i'm putting it in (even though their other bowls will have their dry food in it). But if i put it in on the counter then they're jumping on the counters, so i stopped doing that so not to encourage them to get up on the counters. I've been told since they're still young that they're growing and should be able to eat as much as they want, not to go by the feeding instructions. Well I can't do that...I tried doing that and they were going through SIX bowls of food three times a day and they would eat until their stomachs were balloons. So I stopped. They now get fed about 1/2 cup 2 times daily per cat + a can of wet food between the 3. Blues feeding instuctions for their weight is 1/4-1/2 cup a day. So they're getting fed double what they're supposed to plus wet food....plus whatever they steal off of my daughter and whatever dog food they steal from my dog (and no..i REFUSE to punish my dog and crate her while she eats so the cats dont eat her food as has been suggested before)

So..I'm going to pray and chalk it up to being young and give it some more time and make some more sacrifices and changes. If not..then unfortunately they will have to be rehomed. My cousin is willing to take the female, but i'd have to find someone to take fatman. But I won't take them back to the shelter, a rescue or foster. It will have to be a home that I know the person and I know they'll be cared for right, loved and I can still see them. Because I do love them...even though I am having so much trouble.

Sorry for the long post....

 

[nekochan]

Are the feeding instructions on the food listed for adult cats or growing kittens/cats? Because growing cats have different requirements and will need to eat more than an adult cat would.

 

[minka]

Are the feeding instructions on the food listed for adult cats or growing kittens/cats? Because growing cats have different requirements and will need to eat more than an adult cat would.

^This, with the exception that the amount on the backs of bags tends to be too much.
1 cup + 1/3rd can seems like enough to me though.